1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Travon Martin Trial

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RickyBobby, Jun 26, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    I have a hard time believing Zimmerman wasn't guilty of assault. Martin felt threatened, and whatever he did was in defense of himself. The fact that he made Zimmerman bleed doesn't really change the fact that Zimmerman followed the kid, which is what instigated the incident.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
    RickyBobby, Fin D and smahtaz like this.
  2. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Fraud is actually a much harder crime to prove than murder. In major police squads the best detectives are often assigned to the major fraud squads. Proving/disproving fraud comes down to proving that the accused (a) knew that they were not entitled to the money and (b) the intent was to obtain it dishonestly.

    Again it is normal for acts of aggression to be remembered more vividly than more routine actions, also if GZ's stories fluctuates because of the interviewer to my mind that speaks more to poor interrogation technique than in and of itself proving GZs malfeasance.

    From what I've read so far the state case is weak. Kids can be followed by anyone in their community, there's no crime in that. The crimes, whatever they may be, occurred when TM and GZ let a simple situation escalate out of control.
     
    Justright likes this.
  3. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    The police were on the way. Unless Martin became an immediate threat to someone then Zimmerman had no business confronting the kid in the 1st place. What ever happens after that is on Zimmerman..
     
    RickyBobby, Fin D and Fin-Omenal like this.
  4. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

    5,475
    1,448
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    Palm beach
    you cannot comment on the inconsistencies if you have not listened to the videos I've posted which its obvious you haven't.

    Secondly, fraud and murder are different, you investigate it different. I do.t know what you think the smartest people work fraud. It takes different types of minds to solve different stuff. My dads buddy could run circles around my dad in a fraud investigation my couldn't find his first clue in a corruption investigation. Different process.

    So because you have a background in fraud doesn't mean you know the first thing as far as a murder investigation.
     
  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    This statement is the truest you will find in this thread.

    If he doesn't take matters into his own hands? He's not on trial and a kid doesn't lose his life.
     
    smahtaz, bigbry and Fin D like this.
  6. TM is dead because he resorted to violence and the assault occurred when he struck GZ. If TM would of kept his hands in nis pockets than he would still be alive.
     
    Justright likes this.
  7. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    Oh, I agree that the police should have investigated this and investigated as if their jobs depended on it.

    Zimmerman was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton and by Detective Chris Serino on the night of the shooting for 5 hours. He was also given a lie detector test. The day after the police had him do a reenactment. Over 2 weeks later, on March 12, 2012, and due to intense media and public pressure Police Chief Lee turned the investigation over to the State Attorney's office for review. Lee said there was not enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman. "In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense," Lee said. "Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him." In response to criticisms of the investigation, Lee responded that "We are taking a beating over this" and defended the investigation.[SUP][/SUP] "This is all very unsettling. I'm sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, February 26, he'd probably do things differently. I'm sure Trayvon would, too."[SUP]

    [/SUP]On March 13, 2012, Chris Serino a request to the state's attorney recommending charges of negligent manslaughter against Zimmerman even though Serino maintains he did not believe they had the evidence to support those charges and that manslaughter was only included in the order for the prosecutor's office to continue with their own investigation. The State Attorney's office initially determined there was insufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman and did not file charges based on the request.

    On March 16, Serino told a local newspaper that his investigation had turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account, that he had acted in self-defense. "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the deceased was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."


    Governor Scott asked the FDLE to investigate the shooting[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP] and the Florida Attorney General confirmed that the FDLE was involved and stated "no stone will be left unturned in this investigation."[SUP][/SUP]

    On March 20, 2012, the Justice Department announced that it was opening investigations into the incident.The FBI opened a parallel investigation into whether Martin's civil rights were violated, interviewed witnesses, and looked into Zimmerman's background.[SUP][/SUP]


    On July 12, interviews conducted by the FBI were publicly released. The Sanford Police Department's lead investigator, Chris Serino, told FBI agents that he believed Zimmerman's actions were not based on Martin's race, but instead on Martin's attire, the circumstances of the encounter, and previous burglaries in the neighborhood. Zimmerman's neighbors and co-workers were interviewed as well. Neighbors who knew Zimmerman had nothing derogatory to say about him and his co-workers were complimentary of him.[SUP]

    [/SUP]

    Serino also told the FBI that he had felt pressure from three officers within the department to charge Zimmerman although he "did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges", and accused one of these officers of being friendly with Martin's father. He also expressed concern to the FBI about possible leaks of evidence to the media from within the department.[

    Really? All of that over this? I'm not saying that their shouldn't have been a thorough investigation, but it seems as if they kept going and going and going...kept finding nothing until they were pressured into charging him.
     
  8. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    Following is not assault. A licensed attorney from this forum has even said so. And being followed, not stalked, is no reason to punch someone in the face. Following someone is not a crime. Punching someone who is following you is a crime.
     
    shula_guy likes this.
  9. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    So you know for certain that GZ confronted TM? Did the ghost of TM tell you that? GZ states that TM confronted him. If GZ wanted to confront TM why did he wait so long to do it? Why not get out of his truck the moment he saw TM? I'll tell you why...because just like the other 40 some odd times GZ called the police to report suspicious people, he called the police to report TM. And just like the previous 40 some odd times GZ was too afraid to confront anyone. he got a little courage when TM ran and he decided that he's see which direction he went so he could tell the police.
     
  10. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    Other than the part that we don't know is true. Meaning, smahtaz's entire premise that GZ confronted TM. So basically, his post is just more conjecture based off of...well, I don't really know what it's based off of.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Following is assault if it creates a well-founded fear.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  12. Not saying that I agree with your definition of assault but what evidence do you have that TM was afraid or that it was well founded?
     
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    He told someone that he was being followed by a man he found creepy. He felt the need to run. There is a reason why the dispatcher not to follow Martin. Following someone can very easily be interpreted as threatening.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  14. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    It's not that simple. Do you also not believe the licensed attorney on this very forum?

    Following someone is not assault. Following someone is not a crime. There is a difference in following and interference, or impeding someone's ability to move or function. So every time a private investigator follows someone it's a crime of assault? Every time a person who investigates fraudulent insurance claims they are guilty of assault? Like when JoeBob says he hurt his back and gets workman's comp. A private I follows JoeBob and sees him lifting bales of hay over his head....That private I is a criminal now? I'm afraid not...

    You can follow anyone you want in a public place.
     
  15. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    TM said, according to his lying-anout-everything-else-and-then-getting-caught girlfriend, that a creepy-*** cracka was following him. He ran AFTER he approached GZ's truck and seen him on the phone. Once more, and I can't for the life of me understand why no one here says anything about this little tid bit, TM was about 70yrds from his house. If he was so afraid why not keep running for the entire 10 seconds it would hav taken him to reach his house and then tell his father?

    And the dispatcher did not tell GZ to stop following TM. He didn't advise, him, tell him, warn him, command him, or anything like those things. They are not allowed to advise, suggest, coerce, demand, or anything else due to liability laws.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its absolutely semantics. You're being ridiculous if you think someone wouldn't hide behind those bushes if they were scared.

    From the "T" to TM's house, the distance is anywhere from 50-60 yards...according to everything that I've read. On your map it's roughly 3.5" from the "T" to TM's house. So, let's make it simple and say it's 50 yards from the "T" and 4" from the "T" to TM's house on the map. So, 50 yards = 4". That means every inch is about 12 yards or 36 ft.

    From the "T" to the letter F on your map, it's about 1/2 of an inch. That's about 18 feet. Now, if you want to get precise and do the exact math they were about 15-25 ft from the "T". Previously I wrote 10-15 ft and that's pretty damn close and is most certainly NOT "not close to 10 feet".

    Better yet...look at these photos.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    In the 1st photo how far away is that tree from the sidewalk? 5? 7 feet? In the second photo how far away is TM's body from that tree? If you think the police standing there are about 6' tall...then he's about 10-12 ft away from that. Again, anywhere from 15-19 ft away.[/QUOTE]

    Sigh. If the distance from the T to the murder scene is 15 feet, then the entire building is only 30ish feet long and has at minimum 4 separate apartments since there's at least 4 driveways. You're being more ridiculous with this, then you were with the shrubs.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yes really. If you're gonna ***** that the girl is a habitual liar but take everything GZ says (a proven habitual liar) to be the truth, then your opinion is irrelevant and you should stop giving it.
     
  18. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    Sigh. If the distance from the T to the murder scene is 15 feet, then the entire building is only 30ish feet long and has at minimum 4 separate apartments since there's at least 4 driveways. You're being more ridiculous with this, then you were with the shrubs.

    [​IMG][/QUOTE]

    One problem...well two if you count your quoting problem...You're using the letter "F" from your map. I'm using the actual picture of the dead body and things around it.
     
  19. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    No...you STFU!!! YOU!!! !!!!! PPTHHHTTTT!!!!! *tongue sticking out*

    lol
     
  20. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Is there any evidence that TM was an immediate threat to anyone or anything prior to being confronted by GZ?
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    You're using a photo taken from an angle that you're trying to determine distance from. The map is accurate, its a Google earth screen cap with labels added. BTW, the tree in the foreground of your photo with the cops is not the one that's predominate on the straight on shot you provided...its actually the tree just off the right side in the straight on shot. So following the new (correct) angle, it would put the scene pretty much exactly where the map shows it. And ftr, Sport, that's not my map. Its the one you provided....that probably stings.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Riiiiiight.

    You think ignoring GZs proven lies while touting the girls 'lies" gives your opinion credibility? It doesn't, which is why you should stop giving it.
     
  23. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    Is there any evidence that GZ was an immediate threat prior to being confronted by TM?
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yes. He chased a kid for walking home from the store, that he eventually shot to death with a gun he owned.
     
  25. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    lol..It's not my map. I used it for a purpose. I didn't use it to try and determine exactly where TM's body was. Why? Because it doesn't show TM's body. I'm smarter than that and instead used ACTUAL crime scene photos to determine where TM's body was. Once you used the map it became yours sport. I KNOW that stings. ;)
     
  26. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    That's the great thing about 'Merica. Liberals have fought for us all to think and say what we want. Right, sport? I believe GZ in regards to this case, mostly, because the FACTS add up to his claims. Even one of the lead investigators said the same thing. However, I'm sure you failed to read that too, sport.

    I don't believe Rachel because she's lied about EVERYTHING so far and been caught in those lies.
     
  27. Justright

    Justright Banned

    2,360
    314
    0
    Feb 23, 2013
    You missed the part where he had his nose broken and head lacs because he was following someone (which he wasn't).

    Have you answered my question I asked Stringer? Are Private I's committing assault when they follow people?
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Sigh.

    Its like talking to a wall with a learning disability.

    The photos you're using do not show the scene to be a few feet from the T. They show that the map is pretty accurate. You don't even know which trees you're using to line up the distance.
     
  29. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

    5,475
    1,448
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    Palm beach
    My father was a special agent with FDLE for 22 years. Different cases, different styles, different laws. You cannot say fraud is harder to solve than murder, it depends on the case. It takes different types of people solve different types of cases.

    With all due respect, you need to listen to the interviews before you comment on interview techniques.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    WTF does this have to do with politics. You're agenda is clear now and it makes your stance pathetic.

    What the hell are you even talking about? Do you understand that when PIs are following somebody that somebody doesn't know it, so how could it instill fear in the person being followed? And you want act like I'm the child? Sigh.
     
  31. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

    5,475
    1,448
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    Palm beach
    Are we sure about that? Would Zimmerman felt threatened if tarpon kept his hands in his pockets. Zimmerman did mention that he had his hand in his waist, on the police call
     
  32. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

    5,475
    1,448
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    Palm beach

    Please watch the last video I posted, or at least the last five minutes
     
  33. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Of course there is.

    If GZ stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police to arrive we wouldn't be having this discussion. Confronting the kid without backup is a made for TV move.

    How does GZ know that TM is alone? How does GZ know TM isn't a martial artist? How does GZ know TM doesn't have an uzi?

    If I'm on the jury, I want to hear why GZ thought confronting TM was vital to public safety when real law enforcement officers were on their way.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  34. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,265
    7,907
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    Florida Statutes
    784.011 Assault.—
    (1) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
    (2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    Can we stop arguing about this now?
     
  35. If TM was afraid why didn't he use his phone to call 911?
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    That's been posted twice already, so no.

    I'm still waiting for someone to explain why chasing someone while armed doesn't meet the criteria for assault.
     

  37. So if GZ was following TM and TM turned to him said "if you keep following me I going to knock you out" TM would be guilty of assault even if he never raised his hands?
     
  38. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,265
    7,907
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    No, because the threat is conditioned on GZ continuing to follow him, so the violence isn't imminent.
     
  39. So if GZ continues to follow him and TM punches him after he warned him? Is TM innocent in that scenario and GZ got what he deserved for not heeding the warning?
     
  40. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,265
    7,907
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    When he punches him it's a battery.

    784.03 Battery; felony battery.—
    (1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
    1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
    2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
    (b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    GZ is privileged to follow TM so long as GZ doesn't threaten TM. If TM punches GZ, TM is the initial aggressor, and GZ can fight back in order to prevent injury to himself. If in the course of the fight TM uses deadly force or sufficient force to do GZ great bodily injury, and GZ is in reasonable fear of it, he can use deadly force to defend himself. That's what this case is about.
     
    padre31 and shula_guy like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page