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Travon Martin Trial

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RickyBobby, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Here's a to scale drawing of the crime scene presented in court. Unless someone is stupid enough to suggest that it's not accurate, as if the prosecution or defense wouldn't jump on that, it's great evidence.

    [​IMG]




    See the location of the body? See where it is in regards to the FIRST wall and hedge row? See how the body is so close to the "T" that a person can just peer around teh corner of the house and see the body? Just like in the photo I presented. The same photo where FinD said the body had been moved.
     
  2. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    State's burden is to prove him guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
    If you have a doubt and you have a reason for it, you have a reasonable doubt.
    I have at least a reasonable doubt as to his guilt of second degree murder when Zimmerman says he was in fear of his life or great bodily injury when he shot Martin. The state has not disproved his affirmative defense of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I have the following reasons for my doubt:
    The physical evidence of injuries to both men seems to corroborate Zimmerman's version of the facts.
    So does the testimony of Mr. Good.
    The authorities weren't even going to charge him until they were politically pressured.
    The cops have testified they think he's telling the truth.

    Reasonable doubt. Zimmerman walks.
     
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  3. He should walk. It is not unlawful to protect yourself from being assaulted.
     
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  4. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    They asked the investigator anoint a particular question and answer and if he felt gz was being truthful in that particular answer.

    Go and watch it instead of just reading about it then calling me out
     
  5. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    I didn't call you out. I've read the trascripts and posted them here. Serino said that he feels as if Zimmerman exaggerated parts of his story in regards to the times he was hit. He said, overall, he thought GZ was being truthful.



     
  6. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    No, not close minded at all. I believe gz is not telling the whole truth and that when pressed on exact info it either sounds fishy to me or just isn't possible.

    I agree he had every right to follow a kid he felt was suspicious in his neighborhood, even with a gun. But when you see a suspicious kid and call police that maybe when the kid circles your car you should probably ask him what's going on. Then you don't go follow the kid, I say follow bc gz said follow and also I don't believe that either he didn't know the road or didn't know to look at the house and describe the way to get there.

    Besides, if he walked over there to get the cops and address, then why did he tell the dispatcher to have them call him so he could tell them where he was. I believe he knew those roads. I'm dosed minded on those things.

    Even with that said I don't think there is a case for murder against him. But due to the fact that I absolutely don't believe him about those certain things, I feel he is lying about other things.
     
  7. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    83 of 84
    [​IMG]


    Each one of these pictures are of the same spot, just facing the opposite directions. I believe the first photo shows North and the second photo shows South.

    However, from the first photo you can see how TM's body is pretty much online with the 1st white divider/wall. The picture is at a slight angle so it's not exact. You can also see the end of the house. You can also see the cover for the water meter. (I'm speculating it's the water meter)

    In the second photo we see the cover to the water meter (the first one from the right) and also the end of the house. If you take both photos into considertation we can place TM's body somewhere between the first two meter covers, but closer to the first. From this photo we can see that TM's body is not very far from the "T".

    One thing is for certain. TM's body was behind the first townhome, not the second, and no where near the third. :)














    [​IMG]
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's the first picture you've shown that proves anything. About time.

    The body is past the first unit which is at minimum 15 ft across. The corner of that unit to the sidewalk is at least 7ish ft. The body is 5ish ft into the second unit. Now, that's still 25 to 30 ft away from the T, as I said. I still need an explanation for how GZ was headed back on the sidewalk to his truck, got confronted by TM at the T and was then promptly sucker punched so hard they landed 30 ft the other way.

    And for the last time, I did not ever insinuate or state the goddamn body was moved so stop your effing lying. Its pathetic.
     
  9. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    As to the "slim jim" that was found at the crime scene...Tayvon's school sure had a nice conspiracy going and it looks like Tayvon was a benefactor in that conspiracy:






    [​IMG]
    Former M-DSPD Police Chief Hurley with son and wife


    Hmmmmmmm....lol
     
  10. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Post #493 you wrote: That doesn't show the body in the right place. The photo you used earlier does.



    If the body is not in the right place...why and how is it not in the right place?

    The drawing shows TM's body pretty much online with the first divider/wall. The divider/wall between the 1st and 2nd units. His feet, according to the drawing, are actually what's online with that divider. His torso and head are closer to the "T" and directly behind the first unti.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I said this illustration doesn't show the body in the right place and it doesn't.

    [​IMG]

    That shows the body before the white divider, and the courtroom drawing and the photo from earlier show it just a little past the white divider. Either way, its still about 30 ft, and you still haven't explained how they got from the T to 30 ft away with one sucker punch.
     
  12. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    And now you've, finally, given to us how far away you think his body was in two posts. The first one you wrote 30ft, maybe more. Now you've corrected yourself and said 25-30. I've already determined that he was somewhere between 15-25ft away. Are you still arguing just to argue?

    Also, measure the body on the drawing. It's 3 mm. Trayvon was 5' 11" tall. It's 11 mm from the "T" to the body. 3mm=5'11" or 71". 71/3= ~24. 24*11= 231. 231/12= just under 20ft.
     
  13. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    The body is not past the white divider. His feet, according to the evidence drawing, are online with the divider and his head and torso are closer to the "T". For all practical purposes he's behind the first unit.
     
  14. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    As to the "30ft away" question...After being punched hard enough to have your nose broken a person may stumble, as GZ stated. 20'-30' is not that far. We are talking a distance of 3-5 Trayvon Martin's if they were lying down head to feet. Get out a measuring tape and mark off 25 ft.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Jesus christ, you're the one that went from 10-15 ft to 15 -25. from start to finish you've thought it was in a range of 15 ft. I've actually been consistent with a 5 ft range. What evidence do you have that the arrow is precisely to scale on the courtroom drawing. Especially since 5'11 equals exactly 3mm?

    Stop effing stalling, and answer how a single sucker punch made them travel 10 ft let alone 30? And while you're at it, how did TM punch GZ in the direction of where the body ended up since he was coming from that direction?
     
  16. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    lol...Why are you so emotional?

    After seeing only one picture I said it looked to me like TM was 10-15' down the sidewalk. You said "he was no where near that distance". You then stated that he was 30' or more away from the "T". After doing a little more research, something you haven't done at all, and after finding more photos, I determined that the distance was somewhere around 15-25'.

    The evidence drawing is to scale. If you measure the body, it shows that it's 3mm long. It's 11mm from the sidewalk to the body. The rest of the math was easy to figure out. Hell, I even showed my work for you. lol.... So, what's the problem? Let me guess, it doesn't show his body was 30+ feet away. That's the problem, right?

    A punch didn't make anyone "travel" as in they "flew" or were "knocked" that far away. There was a struggle, etc...They ended up roughly 20ft away when that struggle went to the ground. That's the distance of 3 men. Do you think that's a long way to go? lol
     
  17. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    But its still stupid for a wanna be dip**** cop on a power-trip to go looking for trouble.
    If he had just stayed in his car and left Trayvon alone none of this would have happened.
     
  18. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    What's so hard to believe about getting punched in the face and being disoriented to the point you start walking/stumbling the wrong direction? Trayvon most likely did not use a Judo throw to put Zimmerman on his back landing him exactly where the punch took place. It seems perfectly logical to me that one could travel 25 ft in the scenario described by Zimmerman. Does where the body was found prove anything?

    I know if my neighborhood was being preyed upon like his I would definitely want to find the a-holes who were responsible. If it is found to be that Zimmerman did in fact veer off the path (and lied) to take another glance to find his suspect, would that convince you that he instigated the fight and eventual gunshot incident? Maybe he DID do that (go for another look) and lied to further remove himself out of fear from any possible guilt.

    The picture of seeing Trayvon dead turns my stomach, it is incredibly sad, but I just don't see (yet) Zimmerman justifiably being put behind bars.
     
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  19. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Wow....The dude was watching over his neighborhood that had break-ins. Good for him! You think robberies should just go on with people turning a blind eye? You support robbery? What's your address?
     
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  20. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    That poor poor strawman...
    All he had to do was call the cops if he thought Trayvon was going to rob a house, and thats it. The dispatcher told him to wait.
    Guess what, no one was being robbed and a kid died. I guess you support random morons who think they are vigilantes?
    Good for you!
    (see now we're double teaming that strawman!)
     
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  21. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Strawman? What the hell?

    Zimmerman lived in that neighborhood which had previous break-ins and wanted to put a stop to it. What's the problem? What makes him a "wanna-be dipsh*t cop looking for trouble"? You're sounding like an ***.

    I DO support people who want to watch over their neighborhoods to keep themselves and their neighbors safe.
     
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  22. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    You're right. If trayvon had just kept running the extra 10 seconds he would have been home and none of this would have happened.

    Make no mistake, I think GZ could have done things differently. However, what he did was not illegal. At least according to the evidence presented so far.
     
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  23. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    He did call the cops. The dispatcher never told him to wait.

    Did you see the part of the trial where they talk about a "slim-jim" being found at the crime scene?
     
  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Before this trial started, people have already had their minds made up regarding Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, regardless of the evidence that everyone thought they knew before the trial even began.

    In regards to the "Stand Your Ground" law, I had questions but seeing how the defense waived the SYG hearing and elected to argue standard self defense, that's a moot point.

    People have brought up Zimmerman pursuing Martin on foot and wanted to use THAT as the basis for Zimmerman to be deemed the aggressor or that Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher's guidance that he wasn't needed to follow Martin, but the one question I've not heard ANYONE ask on this particular topic...when the 911 dispatcher advised Zimmerman they didn't need him to follow Martin, WHERE was Zimmerman?
    -Had he already reached the back entrance?
    -Was he at the "T" of the walkways between the buildings?
    -Was he still adjacent to the first perpendicular building before reaching the "T"?

    I've heard no one argue nor ask THESE questions, just folks automatically jumping to conclusions based on conjecture or hearsay without knowing the facts.

    Based on the testimony I've heard thus far, I think Zimmerman walks on 2nd degree murder. Had the state filed the lesser included offense of manslaughter, they might could get a conviction IF they could prove BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Zimmerman ignored 911 dispatcher's guidance that he wasn't needed to follow Martin. I've yet to hear any testimony that proves this.

    Keep in mind, this is my conclusion THUS FAR...but the way state's witnesses have corroborated many of Zimmerman's claims, they're going to be hard pressed to sway testimony already submitted, particularly John Good's testimony.
     
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  25. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The charge is second degree murder. The State needs to prove that Zimmerman acted with a "depraved mind." If the jurors don't find that, they don't even have to consider whether Zimmerman acted in self-defense. They have to acquit of second-degree murder.

    The jury will be instructed as follows:

    An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:
    a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and
    is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and
    is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.

    The second element is where the State will have trouble. In order to convict, the jury would have to view Zimmerman as having acted out of racist hate or anger or both, looking for a confrontation, pursuing and cornering the kid, thinking along the lines of "I'm going to catch that (racist expletive) punk and if he so much as twitches I'll fill his black a** full of lead." That would be acting with a depraved mind.

    I don't think the State gets there. It could conceivably get to manslaughter or culpable negligence. It still can, because the jury can convict of a crime that is lesser included to the crime charged. This is the only thing that gives me pause on Zimmerman walking altogether, because a jury with mental images of riots after a not guilty verdict may want to convict him of something. That would be improper, but compromise verdicts do happen.
     
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  26. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm curious to know how many break-ins have occurred in that neighborhood since this event took place.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm annoyed that you dramatically changed your distance guess then give me **** for barely changing mine. If you don't understand that, its not my problem.

    You simply stating the arrow is to scale is not proof of anything. You're reaching with the 3mm arrow. You're reaching big time. That's the problem, you're operating under the assumption that the arrow is precisely to scale when its not.

    GZ says the sucker punch knocked him to the ground. He doesn't say anything about stumbling around or a struggle. He says Martin punched him in the nose and ended up on top of him. He says this in the interrogation video from the night it happened. So I ask you again, how did Martin punch so GZ lands 30 ft away and in the direction TM came from.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No one is arguing against a NWP.

    They are saying GZ was overzealous and broke two of the cardinal NWP rules (being armed and chasing). Look up the NWP rules.
     
  29. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I may be mispeaking here, but the fact that you can walk around armed without any sort of qualifications or checks on a NWP is troubling.....

    Can any Tom, Dick, or Fin-D do it?
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He crossed the T and made it to the other street, before he hung up and turned around. This is from his police interview the night of the incident. He then goes on to claim TM approached him at the T and sucker punched him in the nose and went to the ground and TM was on top of him. How he got from the T to the spot of the death 30 ft away is a mystery no one has explained yet.

    I think GZ is guilty, but I don't know if he will be found guilty and that is because of the wording of the SYG law. The law is bad because its whoever lives is the innocent person.

    Think about it, (I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED) GZ could have flashed his gun to TM which made TM run. He could have heard GZ coming up the sidewalk and dove behind some bushes. GZ could have heard TM and went down the sidewalk and pointed his gun at TM and made a threat like "You're gonna die tonight" and TM did all he could do which is leap at GZ and try to get the gun away. They fight and GZ shoots TM dead. Now if all of that happened (AGAIN I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED) we could be exactly in the same place right now with GZ claiming SYG and be about to win. That's a bad law.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He's licensed which is fine. But the National NWP, say you should never carry while on patrol. You'd think the National NWP would know what they are talking about.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think that info could show GZ as even more guilty, because it would certainly explain why he was overzealous and aggressive.
     
  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Licensed to buy one or licensed to conceal carry?
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Licensed to carry.

    BTW, the gun wasn't holstered. It was just tucked into the side of his pants. As a cop, does that sound like that's where he always carries it, or he grabbed it and stuck it there before he gave chase?
     
  35. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    This article shows what the neighborhood mind set was. If you have the time read it (if you haven't already). http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...nity-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html

    I did read the NWP guideline that he broke. What he did wasn't illegal. He was possibly over zealous, but understandably so.

    Zimmerman had no intent on killing someone that night. Like I said before, he could have shot Trayvon immediately when the struggle began, he screamed for help over and over instead. He shot him once even after he thought he missed (because Trayvon got up off him).
     
  36. He was protecting himself and his neighbors from two bit wannabe thugs and gangsters.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If he was truly worried that real criminals were up to no good and breaking in to all the houses, why would he put himself into a situation where he was going to confront someone he suspected of being one of those criminals while he was waiting on the cops?

    TM ran away from GZ. At that point he was already on the phone with the police. Had he just stayed there, this wouldn't have happened. TM tried to remove himself from the situation, GZ did not.
     
  38. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Ok. So what exactly do you think Zimmerman's motives were? I think he wanted visual of the person in question.

    TM ran from someone on the phone which made GZ suspicion of him conclusive. TM wasn't running to remove himself, he was running from someone he thought was calling the police. If TM wanted to go home, he could have.

    If someone didn't hold up their end of the deal it was the school. That kid should have been in juvy.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He started running home. He ran home in a way GZ couldn't keep following him by vehicle.

    I think GZ's motives were to be the hero. I think he was overzealous and committed assault when he chased TM with a gun. TM ran because he was scared. If TM thought GZ was calling the police why in hell would he turn around and attack GZ, if he thought the police were on the way?

    GZ's record is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than TMs.

    I'll ask you like I asked others, why is GZ's word the gospel for you? Do you often believe the defendant or is it just in this case?
     
  40. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    The latter.....nobody tucks their firearm in the waistband or should they when they are out in public...It is unnecessary and unsafe and certainly not taught in any firearms safety school....
     
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