Ron Jaworski "John Beck will be an outstanding QB!"

I also Remember Jaws saying JP Losman has turned the corner. And will be an excellent QB for the Bills as well.

Let than 6 months later he loses his job to a 3rd round rookie in Trent Edwards.

Take this all with a grain of salt

 

Many of the things Ron Jaworski mentioned I have been preaching for a while. Mainly the Fins have no business trying to develop a rookie QB on such a bad team.

I wouldnt say Lemon has instant success. He is really only played 2 good quarters in his last 6 starts.

With Parcells coming in who knows what happens to Beck. If Cam is let go then Beck might be joining him. I hope not, but its a possibilty.

 

Beck is not going anywhere. You can't judge a ROOKIE based on 4 games.

 

Marino was on WFAN with Boomer talking about it also. He said the major thing is it changes the feelings of the fans and players.

 

I respect Jaworski's opinion. I wonder what he's using as his basis for his assessment. I find it hard to believe its the four games we just witnessed. Maybe he liked him from college

 

He loved Beck in college. He's had nothing but good things to say since we drafted him. I sure hope he's right.

 

JAWS has always been talking good about Beck. Even Steve Young had some nice things to say after the MNF game.

 

Take everything Steve Young says with a grain of salt. I doubt he will ever say anything bad about John Beck. Or the Detmers or any other QB that comes out of BYU. Kind of like how Montana will never bad mouth Rick Mirer or any QB to come out of Notre Dame. Its a fraternity of sorts.

Jaws is a guy I respect. Always have. I put him in the same category as Peter King, Bob Costas, Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann when it comes to sports and commentary. So its nice to read this.

However, his opinion doesn't really matter much. I would much rather hear of Parcells making a similar claim.

 

Actually Young has been pretty critical of fellow BYU alum quarterbacks over the years, as have most BYU fans. They have a nasty habit of turning on any quarterback that is not Steve Young or Ty Detmer. Beck was awfully honored that he became one of the precious few that didn't get roasted continuously by the BYU fanbase but actually got defended.

I hear this "take this with a grain of salt" stuff, but...how many peoples' opinions do we have to take with a grain of salt? Phil Simms? Steve Young? Ron Jaworski? Boomer Esiason? Mike Martz? Cam Cameron? There are so many people that we have to "take with a grain of salt" about John Beck.

Jaws has definitely been on the beckwagon since the beginning. I think it is safe to say that Jaws thought that Russell was the most talented QB in the draft, but that Beck was probably his favorite.

Cameron reiterated in his latest column what some of us have been saying forever. Rookie QBs don't succeed. Go down the list. It's just not a position where they succeed. Only two in the last 25-30 years have enjoyed real passing success. You don't judge John Beck on those games. At best it was a chance to get him some experience, and I wouldn't even say that he really needed that experience. I don't know that Cam would say that, either.

At the same time, it was a chance for Cleo Lemon to grow as well. Lemon was handed the starting job because Trent Green went down, but he didn't earn the opportunity to keep starting. He was righteously benched, because he couldn't win us games and could get us in the end zone often enough. Well, he got benched, and had to watch as a rookie went out there and made mistakes Cleo probably feels he never would have made, lost us games that Cleo probably feels he never would have lost. He gets his opportunity to come back in and be the starting pitcher, and Cleo has his best game as a Dolphin. Coincidence? Not on your life. As Cameron said, just about every QB at some point reaches a real low point in his career...and what that guy does from that low point really tells you a lot about the kind of player you have. Getting benched for a rookie after not having won us a game had to be a low point for Cleo. Now he's got the opportunity to fix it and so far, he has. He threw for 300+ yards against the Ravens, won the game in overtime. He's got an opportunity now to keep that going, and really, if he keeps enjoying more success, he'll keep getting more opportunities, and he's got the chance to never look back...if he takes that chance.

 

BTW Shaun Hill may be an intriguing free agent option at QB...if Cleo is set on leaving for greener pastures.

 

well said, CK.

 

it did seem the offensive line played very bad during becks starts, and they play better for cleo... was it a case of Cam putting in Beck before he really earned the job and the lineman in front of him kind of not playing as hard as they would for Cleo? dont know, hope not... but i still have high hopes for Beck

 

I don't know if we have to take all of those guys with a grain of salt ck, but there are definitely alterior motives sometimes to what people say. Jimmy Johnsons said the Don Shula led Dolphins should win the Super Bowl and anything less than that would be a travesty. Did he actually believe that? Perhaps. But I tend to believe that he said that as a way of positioning himself to be coach, which worked.

Same for Steve Young. The way he has gushed over Beck, even when Beck was clearly playing poorly and making mistakes leaves me jaundiced to his view.

And as for Boomer Esiason, I can't think of another commentator I loathe more (other than Salisbury but that is a given) than Boomer. His jealousy of Marino comes out on film and the guy, much like Salisbury seems to think he did more in the NFL than he really has. He has zero credibility with me. So whatever he says about Beck, good or bad, it simply rings hollow.

 

thats what I said.

It wouldn't mater what Rookie QB we put behind that Offense. They are set up to fail.

 

CK...I for one really like Shaun Hill, back to his ACC days....curious on your opinion of another "project" guy. He has Zero experience but I for one have always liked his tools....Ingle Martin currently on the Titan's PS intrigues me....do you have an opinion on his tools as obviously we cannot evaluate him on a body of work, particularly since he came out of Furman..........Curious...

 

Here are the stats for 2 rookies on terrible teams.

G CMP ATT %%% YDS TDS INT RAT
11 155 293 52.3 1749 9 18 55.7
11 123 259 47.5 1663 7 14 54.9

The first was Troy Aikman and the second was John Elway. Both went on to have decent careers.

 

I see touchdowns

 

Id like to see what Beck can do with a healthy offense around him and a training camp. Lemon is a solid backup capable of winning a few games if the starter goes down but hes not a 16 game starter. We need talent at the wideout and TE positions. I wouldn't be surprised if we take a TE first day. Its a bit harsh to dump Beck after the horrible situation we've placed him in. Theres only a handful of Qbs in the league that could have won more than a few games with this horrible team. I doubt we would have sniffed the playoffs with a Manning or Brady on this team.

 

The thing is, John Beck wasn't making very many mistakes at all. Most of the issues the team had with him in there were because of what was going on around John Beck. It just so happens that when John Beck gets put in as a starter, Chris Liwenski's play takes a turn for the worst. Liwenski ends up getting benched for Cory Lekkerkerker, and Lekkerkerker really doesn't play any better. In fact, Lekkerkerker ended up getting benched against the Ravens because he got Cleo killed on a play that Cleo fumbled on. They put Liwenski back in, and he really didn't play much better. Then, LJ Shelton got hurt, and Lekkerkerker was in at right tackle.

Based on what I saw in John Beck, he didn't make very many bad throws or misreads at all. I was watching him carefully, and it seemed like every time he threw the ball, I was saying "good decision". The biggest problem he had was taking the hits and his ball security while taking those hits. John started three games and only threw 3 interceptions. All of those came in one game where the poop just really hit the fan. It was the 6 fumbles that stood out.

Also, against Pittsburgh, he really seemed a little amped up. I think he started out something like 4 of 5 with the only incompletion being a dropped pass. On his next 5 or 6 throws, it seemed like his throws were sailing on him. It was almost like he was finally getting into a rythm and got a little too amped up. I told CK at the time that he needed to calm down.

It's completely foolish to give up on John Beck because he didn't come out and immediately play like a Pro Bowl caliber player. Even Bill Parcells said on ESPN that you can't evaluate John Beck on those four games because of the situation he was put into. Also, I don't think John would have ever played this year if Cam hadn't been pressured by Wayne to play him.

 

You also see 11 games.

 

And also a lot more INTs.

 

lol at thought of beck leaving if cam does. hell, you gotta give him at least 3 yrs before you dump him. look at drew brees. hed didnt do much his first 3 seasons

 

Beck did have a lack of talent around him and horrible weather and field conditions to deal with....time will tell what Tuna does with Beck but I think he deserves a chance to prove himself next season.

Ozzy rules!!

 

A guy like Jaworski is going to default to his pre-draft evaluation of Beck. And that's only proper. He uses a set of priorities in evaluating a QB and the hundreds of repetitions he studied on film at BYU are easily more relevant than a few hasty games on a horrible team.

Same thing with Merril Hoge or other guys who look at tons of film. They'll wait for their initial judgment to be correct. That's not a knock. It's human nature. Only flimsy analysts, who you don't want to pay attention to in the first place, change their mind constantly based on recency.

Frankly, I'm surprised Jaworski felt any need to comment on Beck's play this year, other than that's what the viewing audience would expect.

2007 is a classic throw-it-out. But I do hope the low delivery is addressed. The tendency is to slide even worse in that regard.

 

John Beck: 0 wins, 0 td Drives in 3 games!!! Even Matt Morrris lead the anemic Panthers to more points and a win! Trent Edwards??? He looks 10 times better than beck. Another exception to the rule??? Please! Even Troy Smith looked better in 2 relief appearances.

KB, Beck may have made the right decision at times but he also made the wrong type of throw or was inaccurate on most of those passes. He has many, many,many things to fix. i.e. footwork, delivery, blitz and coverage reads, hot routes, matching the correct throw with the open route. All of those corrections and he's already 26. It's just not a wise investment to plan the future around him.

Most of all, how can any of you put your blind faith in a decision that Randy Mueller made??? What move has he made that didn't backfire?

 

Exactly. Like Jaws knows. Beck should be kept on the team and figured for a third team next season. We need to find a veteran and draft a rookie and let things work out. To put the franchise in the hands of Beck wouldn't be prudent and BP won't think of it.

 

I'm just curious as to why you don't think Beck will be able to run this offense and we'd have to draft another qb? How many qb's in this league do you think would have led us to be a significantly better team at this moment, with all of these injuries?

 

Oh sorry were any of these teams playing with a 2nd/3rd/4th RB, a rookie starting WR and an OL with questionable pass blocking? Oh right you forgot about that part didn't yah? By the way Trent Edwards when not facing the Miami Dolphins 1 TD, 5 INT's.

 

I agree. And I personally thought Edwards was better, but it could still be too soon to tell. And if Trent Edwards was on this team, he might look worse than Beck (as hard as that is to imagine).

Forget Mueller. One thing I think we can count on, if nothing else from Parcells is that he will find guys on the oline who can play.

Both lines in two years will be remarkably better than they are now. RBs, QBs...not so sure, but the lines will be improved.

 

people keep forgetting with our Defense, we made most QB look like future HoF'rs. our OL was atrocious for the final 2 games that Beck started on & it seemed the lack of blocking from the OL carried over to our RB's because they couldn't block either.

 

When it comes to the OL I think it's now quite proven that Ronnie made the OL and not the other way around. The team is also sorely missing his pass catching out of the backfield until Booker came in and they definitely miss his ability to pick up the blitzer in blocking.

 

beck hasn't shown a glimmer of hope accept in preseason , and he is also the size of a smurf idk i just don't know

 

I hate to get into excuse-making about Beck's 3 games because the bottom line is he was a rookie and you don't expect rookies to succeed.

But as for comparing him with Troy Smith and Matt Moore, first off, I would say with regards to Troy Smith, Smith has gotten onto the field in much different circumstances. Troy first got on the field the week before the Phins game in a confidence-building environment. The Colts were absolutely pulverizing the Ravens. Boller sucked. The Colts were taking their foot off the gas. Troy Smith came in the game late and looked good in a pressure-free environment, with Jon Ogden blocking his blind side, Todd Heap as his TE, Derrick Mason as his #1 WR, and Willis McGahee there to tote the rock. It wasn't QUITE the same against the Dolphins but Smith's time the week before against the Colts was pretty critical because it was a confidence building moment in a pressure free environment. Beck never had anything like that. He was installed as the starter, on a team that had yet to win a ball game and if you don't think there was unbelievable pressure to get that first win each passing week, obviously you didn't see the end of the Ravens game.

Matt Moore got in on different circumstances. His circumstances were more like Beck's, installed as the starter on a team that was losing ball games and had a lot of pressure to get things back on track. But, when you really look at it, he's got a Travelle Wharton to his left, a Jordan Gross to his right, then guys like Ryan Kalil, Mike Wahle, and Justin Hartwig in front of him. He's got a Steve Smith off to flank, always drawing double teams. He's got Deshaun Foster and DeAngelo Williams taking handoffs.

What did Miami have? Jesse Chatman with bad ankles? Sure, it's a decent OL led by Carey to the left and Satele and Hadnot up front. But, Ted Ginn is a rookie. Derek Hagan plays like one. Marty Booker scares nobody and has a habit of dropping balls. How does this offense scare defenses from blitzing the quarterback non-stop?

That was Cleo's challenge and luckily Cleo's a veteran and has seen a lot of those things before, and also knows how to use his feet to beat the blitz. And, defenses know he can use his feet to beat the blitz. There was one play against the Ravens, it was like Cleo had eyes in the back of his head. I can't explain it to this day. Are Matt Moore and Troy Smith showing those eyes? Not really. They're just operating in a different environment.

 

Not enough time to tell

I don't understand the rush to judgment of beck. No credible assesment can be done in 3 1/4 games. Many things have to be considered, for example the oline, weak or inexperienced wr's. Also beck is a rookie. The lousy pass blocking, lousy blitz pick by the te's and rb's. NO respect for our run game. (game plan)lack of down field passing to keep the def honest. Not only are these things that affected beck but have been causing miami qb's trouble for years.

 

Actually CK, there really is no comparison... As your post points out... Totally different situations on all accounts... With the injuries to key positions on this team, there really wasn't much of an opportunity for Beck to succeed... His first 2 games were in weather that put balance on the field... However, while the defense was able to contain, the offense struggled badly as well... The same things that keept the other team down kept us down as well...

When he finally got a good day to play in, the JETS were relentless on their blitzing and the game was too fast for him to pick up due to the lack of talent around him...

I, like you, feel this kid needs a chance in a game where his primary tools are healthy and the defense is not giving up points that require a one dimensional attack through the air that they are sitting and waiting for...

Until he gets a chance to play in this environment, I will hold out my judgement... However, while I do give him a pass and will not judge him due to the kaos that he was thrown into, if he fails to take this team and run with it when it is healthy, I will jump on the bandwagon of getting a new QB... But I doubt that that will ever happen...

 

After watching Cam's handling of the QB position, I fully understand why Cam went 18-37 at Indiana.

 

I never said I was giving up on Beck. Quite honestly, I think he should have never been pulled. Once you go with the rookie, I think for better or worse, you have to stick it out and see what he can do. I think pulling him back out actually did far worse damage than leaving him in, especially since we didn't win the game.

As for the decision making. I think he did well up until the first pick. He then seemed to fall apart, which can be taken a couple of different ways I suppose. But he certainly played poorly in the final game.

 

After the draft Young said Miami should have taken Quinn.