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Travon Martin Trial

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RickyBobby, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    I doubt it. Will the media(and assorted racists) be happy if it happens?
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No he wasn't doing his job.

    Every national NWP I've seen says don't pursue anyone and don't be armed.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Martin had eluded such pursuit, he was within a stones throw from his front door, yet choose to engage Zimmerman physically and in a way that would threaten ones life if you, me, or anyone was in that situation.
     
  4. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Difference is that you, me or anyone else might have the sense not to chase after him after the police tell him he doesn't need to and/or bc he was a sloppy little napoleon who could get his *** handed to him by a 17 year-old.
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He was not a stones throw from his front door. That is simply not true.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Being "first" is not the standard. And I just don't see it as so unreasonable to confront someone you see lurking outside yours or a neighbor's property. In fact, I've done it. I've seen kids engaging in vandalism and told them to cut it out. And if I were attacked I would have defended myself. I've never engaged in those actions intending to kill someone and I don't think I was being grossly negligent in confronting them.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Perhaps, however such reasonableness goes out the window when heads begin bouncing on concrete.

    Then it becomes life or death, in that situation Zimmerman acted properly.
     
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  8. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't think not following the handbook automatically makes you grossly negligent.
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    lol No, that reasonableness would of been what would've prevented the situation to begin with.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not real sure how engaging in vandalism and walking home from the store while on the phone are analogous though. And it is the standard if that "first" thing done, chasing someone while armed, can be considered assault...and it can.

    If not following the rules isn't negligent...then what is?
     
  11. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I'm noticing that one group is talking about what did happen, and another group is talking about what they think should have happened.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm noticing one group has no problem with an armed adult chasing an unarmed teenager for nothing more than walking. And that group thinks the teen shouldn't be in enough fear to defend himself.
     
  13. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Obviously it's a cloudy situation but how they didn't go after and get a manslaughter conviction boggles my mind. But then I remember it's FL.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If the State wins the case, then they have to explain why they didn't prosecute in the first place. I don't think they wanted to win.
     
  15. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The jury had one or more reasonable doubts about one or more of the elements of both charges, or about the affirmative defense of self-defense. That's all that happened here. Nothing else.

    Horrendous waste of money and resources. The only ones who were right in this whole case were the Sanford police and Seminole County State Attorney, who decided not to charge Zimmerman because they knew there would be a reasonable doubt.
     
  16. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Idk I'd think they'd at least have the fact that he was prosecuted and convicted to hang their hat on.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Can't undo the situation at hand, the jury believed Martin assualted Zimmerman with the intent to cause grave bodily injury, and Zimmerman shot and killed him to save his own life.

    One may not agree with it, however it is what happened.
     
  18. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    I don't agree with this. I don't think he was guilty, but I have no problem with them trying the case. A guy died, and I don't have a problem with them having a trial about it.
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Nah. If they win, they'd confirm the racist accusations that were levied for not going to trial until here was an outrage. Every lawyer on the planet, thought, "WTF?" when they heard the charges they decided to go for.
     
  20. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm no lawyer but I thought the same thing. Just not taking the manslaughter charge when you know the story is cloudy is insane.
     
  21. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    And Zim initiated the whole situation but gets off completely. That's the problem. I can see the rest being rationalized but he has to be punished for his role in it, imo.
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not for me, think everything changed when Martin became violent.

    I do think Zimmerman behaved stupidly, also see it as 2 different episodes of what happened

    -Zimmerman pursued Martin, but lost him
    -Martin assualted Zimmerman when he could have just slid inside his own home instead.
     
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  23. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think he should be because he didn't have any bad intentions. He saw a suspicious act and decided to stop it. He didn't behave in a way that warranted Martin to behave violently.

    I do think Zimmerman should have just stayed put, though.
     
  24. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Chasing someone is plenty enough of a reason for the victim to act violently.
     
  25. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    This is false. If TM had a right to be there, so did GZ. Following someone is not a violent act. If it was GZ would be in prison right now.
     
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  26. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    So you'd rather wait to see what the person chasing you for no apparent reason is going to do? Good luck, especially in FL. And the word was chasing, not following.
     
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  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We don't know that he chased him. He could have. If you believe what Zimmerman said, Zimmerman followed Martin, lost sight of him, and then Martin came back and confronted Zimmerman.
     
  28. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I don't.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If I have the option to step inside my door at that point, then why wait to see what they are going to do?
     
  30. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And you have the right not to.
     
  31. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    This is the way I look at the ruling... As a response to someone that was absolutely outraged at the verdict:

    It's a sad situation. Seriously sad. But the law works the way it does because there are certain things that need to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. If it can't be proven, you can't convict, no matter how much you want to. No matter how much you feel he deserves it. The prosecution, in their closing arguments told the jurors to rule with their heart. Not rule on the law as it stands, but to go with their gut feeling.

    ...and they absolutely had to, because they had no proof whatsoever that Zimmerman's story of what happened wasn't the truth...

    But you can't go with your heart or gut feelings. You have to go by the law and the prosecution failed in that.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    He said he saw him looking in windows. It is not unreasonable to follow or confront someone engaging in that activity.


    The term is grossly negligent. And not following an organization rule that's primarily there to avoid liability doesn't rise to that level.
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The first person who engaged in the violent act is the one who exacerbated things. I've confronted people who I thought were engaged in questionable or illegal activities. I didn't attack them. And they didn't attack me. Some times they ran away. Sometimes they claimed they weren't doing anything and moved on.
     
  34. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Getting out of your car is not illegal. Following someone is not illegal. Calling the police is not illegal. Assault is.
     
  35. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    A little thing called lack of evidence and the law....
     
  36. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Chasing was never proven. I've literally been chased and accosted by a stranger. I could have pulled my knife and thrown down. I didn't. The situation escalated. Until you prove that GZ escalated the situation to violence, you have no case.

    There's no doubt that this should not have happened. From what I can tell, neither party made a good decision that night.
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    True, there is also reasonable expectation for what such non illegal behaviors will provoke in others.

    For me, where Martin erred the greatest is he could have simply avoided all of this via merely..going home.

    Flip side to that is should anyone allow themselves to be run to their house while doing nothing wrong anyway?

    Should Americans sort of jump at a boogeyman or should they calmly deal with the situation?
     
  38. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    That's the question. It can go one of a million ways. In my experience, staying calm is the thing to do.

    I live by a few rules that have served me well.
    1. Don't **** another guys girl
    2. Don't get involved with drugs
    3. Don't get in fights unless its absolutely necessary.

    That said, I'm not 21 anymore. There's a time when I might have escalated the situation, and it might have turned out bad. There's just no knowing. I'm not sure who had the testosterone flowing that night. Was GZ itchin to be a badass cop, or was TM looking to beat a guy down? I have no clue, and in my mind the prosecution didn't do it's part to enlighten me. I feel this was the correct result.
     
  39. Even if you believe that GZ is lying and contributed to instigating a confrontation. TM had options to escape but once he pinned GZ on the ground, then at that point GZ had no escape route and was justified to defend himself with deadly force.
     
  40. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let's do it this way.

    Suppose Zimmerman doesn't draw his weapon. The police arrive and find him unconscious. He's in a coma. Can't testify. Martin is charged with, say, attempted second degree murder, with manslaughter and aggravated battery lesser included. There are the same conflicting stories at the trial as to who was the aggressor. Martin claims self-defense. Does Martin walk because there's a reasonable doubt?
     
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