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Okay no seriously...what's plan B if Martin isn't good enough?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Remember how well Tannehill played late last year ? Who was protecting his blindside ?
     
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  2. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Plan B? Its no longer over the counter.
     
  3. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I haven't given up on him yet, I've always said I thought he would improve this year, but he was so bad as a rookie that he needs to make a HUGE jump this year just to be a decent starting left tackle...and I don't know if he can improve that much in just one offseason...but because we didn't sign Long or Albert or McKinnie, we need him to. Everyone assumed that once he got in the weight room and bulked up everything would be fixed...sorry but I don't buy that. So given the uncertainty, I think asking about a possible alternative should he not perform well enough makes sense.
     
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  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I really hope Martin pans out so I can have my pipe dream of drafting Sammy Watkins for at least a little while. :tongue2:

    If Martin flubs this year and the Jets land Clowney I'll be the first to bang the drum for Lewan however.
     
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  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thomas can be worse that Martin for all we know.
     
  6. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Well I love college football just as much as the pro game and living on the west coast plus Stanford being one of my go to college squads for betting purposes, I was able to watch 80% of their games the last 3 years, and I actually watch more SEC games than any other conference.

    so basically I got to watch plenty of Martin and Thomas and without question Dallas Thomas performed better at left tackle before he switched to guard than any year of Martin, at least in my eyes. I remember him neutralizing Clowney and Melvin Ingram in 2011.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    To be fair, ...

    1. The Dolphins QBs went from being pressured once every 3.5 drop backs to being pressured once every 2.9 drop backs. That's a 22% increase in pressure.
    2. The Dolphins QBs went from averaging 2.0 sacks per game to 3.0 sacks per game. That's a 50% increase in sacks.
    3. This could be laid directly at Jon Martin's feet as Jake Long allowed a pressure on 4.9% of pass snaps the first 11 games, and Martin allowed a pressure on 11.4% of pass snaps the final 5 games.
    4. The Dolphins offense went from averaging 321 yards of offense per game to averaging 290 yards per game.
    5. The Dolphins offense went from averaging 19.2 points per game to averaging 15.4 points per game.
     
  8. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    You have the same dreams as me...bring Sammy back to South Florida
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think the Dolphins are a lot more likely to enter next year's draft with Jon Martin regret than with Brian Hartline (or Mike Wallace?) regret. Sorry man.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually it is worse (or better depending on pov) then that, as we played 2 teams with very little legit passrushing capability in that stretch.

    The Bills and Jags, we played the Pats twice in that stretch and 49ers.

    2 games vs conference championship game participants.

    50% increase in sacks to 3 per game?

    Eh, not the end of the world, real problem was the Pats DE's destroyed Garner and Martin.

    I'd far more regret not trading up for Dion Jordan then I'd ever worry about sticking with Jonathon Martin at LT.
     
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  11. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm thinking it's important that the backs know how to chip if needed as well. If Tanny has improved as much as it looks like it won't take much to give him the time he needs to get the pass out.
     
  12. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody
    Like many, I am worried about Martin. That being said, I am much more excited about this team than I was a year ago - and I see more talent this season than I have in a long time. Now will that talent gel together and win enough games to make the playoffs? Who knows - But we are at least on the upswing in many aspects.

    As far as our early reported "deficiencies" with the LT position, well I accept that we couldn't upgrade every hole in one offseason. If this one position breaks us, then I also accept that we really weren't as close as I may have thought. Since we upgraded in multiple spots this offseason, we can certainly upgrade that one spot next. True playoff teams overcome one or two "deficiencies," and find ways to get past them - so if we don't get past this one, we aren't a true playoff team. Yet we are still over a month from the opener, so we still have time to address this issue if need be (although I know that window is small and shrinking). So what is Plan B? There doesn't seem to be a true "Plan B," or at least one that we know of, but my faith in Philbin and his crew is building, so I am not as worried as maybe I should be.

    I also believe that they are building to beat the Patriots, and it has been proven you beat the Patriots by stabbing them in the face with a soldering iron, and our defense is definitely much hotter than last season. :yes:
     
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  13. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The whole, "just use an extra blocker" ignores the fact that this also dramatically hinders the offense. If you have 5 OL who can handle their own - you have 5 skill players who can be weapons.

    They could just keep 8 in to block every time, for that matter and yet that would leave the QB with two weapons.

    If Martin does not step up - however they handle it, the offense will be in trouble.
     
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  14. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    we have had bad tackles before and won several games the 2002 and 2003 teams comes to mind but I could be wrong.
     
  15. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I still say the best plan would have been to sign Sebastian Vollmer. We could have pulled him away from the Pats for a 4 year 25 mil contract at the most. The Pats are giving him 4.5 a year. It may have forced them to use a high draft pick on a tackle or go with Marcus Cannon.

    Vollmer can play Left or Right tackle. We could have easily signed both him and Clabo. Then draft a OT next year. Of course, that didn't happen.

    The way things are now, if I were Ross I would fire Ireland and find the best negotiator in the world and try to trade for Jared Veldheer, Eugene Moore,Roger Saffold,etc.

    In a heartbeat I would give our 2014 1st and 3rd and 5th and 7th along with Jonathan Martin and John Jerry to the Raiders for Jared Veldheer. They just might take it. Raiders are in complete rebuild and are still having cap problems. Veldheer is a free agent next year and is going to command top dollar.

    IMO, Veldheer is on his way to becoming one of the best LT's in the NFL if not the best by 2015.

    Yes it would mean the end of Randy Starks and Dmitri Patterson, and perhaps some other fanangling next year but I think it would be worth it.

    Veldheer would significantly improve the ability of the Dolphins to run on the left side. Martin is a horrible run blocker. It's not just about pass protection.
     
  16. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Breathe... BREEEEAAATHE. There is a chance that we go into a game setting with Martin at left tackle and he's... wait for it... wait for.... it... OKAY! Whatz OMGZLOL!?!?

    What do I mean by "game setting?" Something not resembling practice or even the scrimmage. An actual game, where we have an offense that is balanced and uses hurry up to slow down the pass rush opposite Martin. Going against a defense that can't substitute. That can't replace the player opposite Martin every other play. In practice, you can shuffle players in and out after every play depending on what the COACHES want to see. In a game, that's not a normal thing. In a game, you can devise a... wait for it... wait for it.......


    .....

    ...


    GAMEPLAN! Holy ****!? We can actually help Martin in many many ways, protection slides, back chips, play calls, roll outs... roll outs? But we need an athletic quarterback to be able to do that? Mrs. Tannehill just called me and said Ryan isn't a statue... gasp! Is it remotely possible that the coaching staff wants to see Martin go against Jordan or other DE's one on one to TEST him?

    Now, I'm not saying Martin is going to the Hall of Fame (although he'll be there on Sunday :shifty:). Patience though... just a little patience... Look at the Packers and their tackle situation the last few years... and recall that Aaron Rodgers is one hell of a great quarterback... who happens to be mobile.

    And lets recognize that in Dion Jordan we might actually have something that can give us what Martin cannot (or any Pro Bowl left tackle for that matter, right Jake?) A CHANCE TO DETHRONE THE PATRIOTS!! Got to be able to pressure Brady with four... We just MIGHT be there soon. MAYBE!

    Patience...
     
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  17. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I'm not panicking yet until I see him play a few pre-season games. Otherwise this is the same BS we went through with Carey being enemy #1 his rookie year and he went on to turn in some solid performances.
     
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  18. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Vollmer would have been a great addition.

    Uh they'd be complete idiots not to. All that for Veldheer? Who is this guy, Orlando Pace? There are very few players in this league teams are willing to give up a 1st for, Veldheer isn't one of them.
     
  19. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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  20. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    So, yea, I'm pretty sure others have stated the same.....our offensive line officially sucks.
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IMO it would make even more sense to actually see him on the field playing the position (this season) before we start talking about a Plan B.
     
  22. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    So, yea, I haven't read the thread but based on what my friends and I have seen in practice and I'm pretty sure others have stated the same here.....our offensive line officially sucks. Martin is a liability at LT.


    there ya go. /END THREAD
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Eh tu, Todd?

    Please tell me you're not joining the Whiner's Brigade.

    What if this goes wrong, what if he gets hurt, we have a giant hole here and a big question mark there, PFF ranks him such and such...blah blah MF'in blah.

    Barry Jackson: Dolphin Struggles at OL Continue; Greg Cote: Let's Hope Fins got it Right at LT. Omar Kelly: Tannehill looking better but it's not enough yet. Is that stating the totally obvious in a way that makes the author feel smart, or is Tannehill supposed to be in All-Pro form after a week of training camp?
     
  24. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    You're becoming one of my favorite posters. Haven't we seen Martin play tackle? Wasn't he horrible? Why the confidence in his ability to play LT, aside from him playing the position in college?
     
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  25. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!


    [video=youtube;nP1TWcILbcg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP1TWcILbcg[/video]
     
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  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    In the one game the Dolphins played against a quality team with Martin at LT, (the Patriots), Tannehill had a terrible game and Martin was a big reason for this showing by Tannehill. The Dolphins scored zero points in that game. Against the top defensive ends in the NFL, Martin just can't hold his own. Heck, even Jordan who is still learning to play in the NFL had two sacks against Martin in practice yesterday.

    Ireland needs to reopen trade talks with the Chiefs for Albert or I see the LT position being a major concern throughout the regular season. Martin is no better than a mediocre backup at offensive line in the NFL, IMO.
     
  27. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Anyway..let me make this official...

    I begin panicking by game 3 of the preseason.

    So as of now...I'm calm.


    Watch Sports Bang on Sat. 11 am...we have THIS as a topic.
     
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  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Here is the one of my issues with Martin struggling v Jordan:

    Martin may never be a physical, road grader type of blocker, more of an athletic/finesse type of pass protector, which is fine in the modern NFL. But when Jordan who is basically come into Camp "raw" no rook OTA, rehabbing a shoulder, is making the one part of Martin's game that is supposed to be strong, one on one finesse v speed look crappy..we have a potential problem
     
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  29. Gitrdone

    Gitrdone New Member

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    What if Jordan is just that good? He has been working with Wake.
     
  30. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    I didn't suggest using the extra blocker as a way to ignore how it will impact the offense. It was aimed at those of the opinion that we should never have let Jake Long walk for the money he wanted. What we have in Martin is not that much worse than Long was giving us but for a lot cheaper ... and I don't see Martin as the long term fix at LT until he proves otherwise.
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Before we panic, let's keep somethings in mind:

    #1. Its only been a week and a day into TC.
    #2. Defense is ALWAYS ahead of the offense early in camp, including dline over oline.
    #3. Our Dline is THAT good.
    #4. The dline knows all the plays the oline is running in practice. (That kind of info has won Super Bowls:shifty: let alone scrimmages and practices)
    #5. According to Coach Turner, the shifting of positions is part of the plan. They're trying to figure out who can play where in case of future injuries. They were probably going to do this later, but they moved up the time while waiting for Jerry.
    #6. Jerry and Louis (hey lady) will be ready to go in a few weeks and that fixes 4/5 of the line immediately.

    Look, Martin may turn out to be a poor LT. But we don't know that yet, so calm down.
     
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  32. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Geez, we haven't played a game yet...is it really time to give up on him ?? Besides that, our problems so far in camp have been in the interior of the line, not the OT spots...?? Look, the same question can be asked of Tanny....What if Tanny doesn't get any better?? What if Wheeler and Ellerbe can't fill the Burnett/Dansby shoes?? What if Grimes has a relapse?? What if Wallace really is a one trick pony ?? What if Keller is not who he was prior to his injury ??

    There are a lot questions around this team, but they can't make contingencies for EVERY starter on the field...
     
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  33. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    In the Navy, we had a anacronym.... RFS.... It meant to get Ready for Sea.
    I think we better get RFS --- Ready for Season..


    • 1 Sep 8 1:00PMEDT * AT [​IMG] Browns
    • 2 Sep 15 1:00PMEDT * AT [​IMG] Colts
    • 3 Sep 22 4:05PMEDT ) [​IMG] Falcons
    • 4 Sep 30 8:40PMEDT + AT [​IMG] Saints
    • 5 Oct 6 1:00PMEDT * [​IMG] Ravens


    These First Five Games are going to be some rough weather.

    Now Hear This! Now Hear This! All hands, Prepare for Season. Batten down the loose fans, random thoughts, and worry warts. Secure all loose Running Expectations. Close all Wild Wishers, Xtreme hopers, and Yammering fit throwers. Prepare for Heavy Rolls and Pitching Stomachs. Stand by for Main Engine Testing of forward pass thrusters, main running bearings, and all lines and haulyards. Defensive systems will be engaged and all preparations for immediate action taken. We will cast of at 2000 hours, 04Aug2013 for underway testing. That is all.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think he is, in fact I think he'll be better then Aldon Smith.

    What has my attention is Martin SHOULD have the skillset to match up well with Jordan well in one on ones, and so far he's not.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree..end thread...

    I'm sure the kid has gotten better, what we need to do is see a couple preseason games, figure out what were actually dealing with in terms of a level of play, and if they level is tolerable, make adjustments to help the brother out, or, if its not and we see that ryan will not be able to trust his blindside, make a move on a different player altogether..
     
  36. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    True DAT!
     
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  37. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's right...
     
  38. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    My bad. I see your point. Agreed.
     
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  39. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]

    That was poetry
     
  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I wouldn't say I'm confident in his ability to play LT but I'm going to wait until I see him play this year before I start worrying about a Plan B.
     

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