IMO, its more an issue of people misunderstanding exactly what being a third-down back entails. The ideal third down back is closer to Kevin Faulk than it is Darren Sproles.
He was a good reserve/3rd down back and a solid contributor on ST. I think Thomas is capable of filling a similar role.
While at Miami, Miller was often nicked up and he wasn't known to be able to handle the tough hits, game after game. He really should be used more as the change of pace RB he was during the 2012 season. Unfortunately it appears the Dolphins have decided he should be the starter and it appears the backups are a huge question mark. Thomas has had trouble staying on the field the past few years and I doubt that he will stay healthy in 2013. He looks good for a few games a year and then he will just disappear or miss games due to injury. Right now though, he appears to be the better player for the backup position to Miller. His carries during the preseason have been against the first or second units of the opposing team, while Gray and Gillislee have had most of their playing time against players who will not even be in the NFL in a few weeks. Between Gray and Gillislee, I'll take Gray. He appears to be a tougher runner and he is someone the Dolphins can use when they are near the goal line. Gillislee is number four, as far as I am concerned. Perhaps he could be kept as a practice team player after the final cuts, but I can't see him being a member of the final 53 man roster. Ireland should be looking for a free agent veteran RB to bring in and hopefully upgrade this group of running backs.
Its all moot anyway.Chances are that one of the 3 RBs with an injury history will get dinged up and the remaining RBs will make the team.Caveat .If two get dinged up we will have to pick someone else from the RB pool available.
Gary and Gilly, Thomas is toast Gary runs hard on short yardage and Gilly is a very good pass blocker.
How about his stats the last two year? Thomas has not been good, Gary looks better catching the ball out of the back field than Thomas, and Gilly blocks way better.
He is no better at blocking than Gray or Gillislee, not a better route runner than Gray, no better hands than Gray or Gillislee, and understands blocking WORSE than both Gillislee and Gray. Add to that he has the highest fumble rate of any of the backs and I have to agree with some of the other post, I don't even want him on the team. He has no upside and every time he carries the ball he gives us the highest chance of a turnover. Gray on the GL has proven time and again he knows how to be patient and wait for the RIGHT hole to get it in. He reminds me of Lou Polite in his short yardage instincts. Gray is our #2 and I really don't see a place for DT on the roster, unless we keep 5. Thigpen is too valuable to STs so he is staying ahead of DT as well.
I see it 100% opposite. If the FO knows they are going to move on from DT that would be the reason he is only getting 8 carries. Add that to the way Philbin handles those with bad attitudes and I see the writting on the wall. DT is history. The only way he has a chance is if Gray gets hurt, and even then I can see them cutting DT and bringing in someone off the street that doesn't fumble.
Listen, in all seriousness it's difficult to understand how people come away from last night thinking Daniel Thomas had a good showing. He had four carries and HE botched two of them. Not the blocking, not any kind of extraneous influence, HE personally botched two of them. He had a 2nd & Short dive play where the offense hurried to the line and called the quick dive to get the 1st & 10. What happened? He hesitated and danced in the backfield, and was caught for somewhere between zero gain or maybe even a little bit of a loss. Dive blocking is not going to open up a "hole" to speak of. You're tying up the defensive line so that the tailback can just buck it up in there as hard and quickly as he can, using his athleticism and momentum to gain the necessary 4 feet of real estate. You hesitate and dance in the backfield, you die. He had a 1st & 10 run out of the shotgun that was MOSTLY blocked well, particularly by Mike Pouncey. I say mostly because Tyson Clabo was the only guy who didn't block it well. But it didn't matter because Daniel Thomas took the hand off, cut up the field, then tripped over his own shoelaces and produced a 2 yard gain on what should have been at least a 5 yard gain, perhaps more. I mean these are not plays you look at and say oh well this defender just made a great play, or the blocking was not there, etc. They're just screwups. Particularly the fact that Daniel Thomas screwed up on the short yardage play is what I find relevant to this discussion because Daniel Thomas has struggled with that role in the past and then here comes Jonas Gray who had four short yardage and tight red zone carries, and was successful on three of them. The one he was not successful on was a short yardage situation (believe it was 3rd & 2 or 3rd & 3) but the play call was a stretch play so it wasn't really a short yardage play. But he produced a touchdown from about 1 to 2 yards out of the end zone twice, on only two tries. He also had a tight red carry at the 7 or 8 yard line in which he produced a hard-won 6 yards which put the offense at the door step. Fittingly he plunged it in one play later. Last week I felt like Jonas Gray showed a little bit of what he can do in the passing game, some roles traditionally held by Daniel Thomas. This week he shows what he can do in short yardage work, another of Daniel Thomas traditional roles, and it just so happens that Thomas screwed up on his one go in that role last night as well. Yes I do believe Jonas Gray is taking steps toward not only making this team but also jumping ahead of Daniel Thomas.
i don't know what's more unrealistic in that vid, the Thomas run or Jon Martin putting a guy on his back.
Thomas also has good hands, can block as well, it's a competition, there's 3 games to go if we're talking about who's gonna win the #2..couple things about gray, ball security is seemingly good, and I don't think his goaline attempts to conversion ratio is related to a good offensive line, he seems to know how to sniff a crack, the TD he had he instinctively saw there was no hole and jump cut right to the right hole...There's room for him to make a roster, but if we're talking the #2 I believe Thomas has more talent..
Very well written and researched post ! You make some solid points and back them up with solid game situational analysis. This post is hard not to fully agree with and while I still believe DT will serve better as the spell back for Miller, everything you say here is truth. The last traditional role DT holds is spell back and Jonas Gray is charging hard. Well said.
-Barry Jackson. i think it's safe to say that if DT was a 5th round pick he'd be a goner. still can't believe we traded up for this guy, coulda had Ridley or Demarco Murray.
It's not that Thomas looked good. He just didn't look as poor as Gray or Gillislee. I really don't see what some see in Gray. Honestly it feels like some are hyping him up just because they want Thomas gone so bad. Gray has been pretty bad, IMO.
Reshad Jones was a 5th round pick and he didn't release him after playing terrible football his second year. It's pretty apparent draft status doesn't mean much to Ireland. If he thinks you're bad, you're gone.
IMO DT is the #2 and should be. I disagree with the assessment that he didn't show anything in the Jags game. I thought he showed quickness and a couple of nice reads on his runs. He looks quicker than he did last year to me. I like Gray's power, but he's not as sudden. I could see him being kept as the power back. I like MG s I think he has an all-around game, but he's probably a year away from challenging for the #2 spot.
It's his size and ability to punch a hole that has me enamored. If this guy continues to get the yard in 1 yard situations, well that fits nicely on any team. The 1 yard situations have been a liability in the recent past... I really believe Jonas Gray can make this team on that asset alone.
Jonas Gray, who scored on two one-yard runs, has the skill set to be a potentially effective short yardage back. But that alone likely won’t be enough to win him a roster spot, because the Dolphins believe Daniel Thomas can handle that role. Gray finished with 32 yards on 14 carries, Mike Gillislee 37 yards on 12 carries. ### Thomas had strong 8 and 9 yard runs on the scoring drive engineered by Tannehill, while Lamar Miller had a nondescript night (two carries, six yards). Dolphins officials are much higher on Thomas’ potential than some fans are. Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/#storylink=cpy
I like gray a lot, but for the positives, he really lacks any burst, once in the clear, unlike guys that are similar to him...
I'm more worried about our starting running back. The only veteran leadership comes from Daniel Thomas.
Gray with a poor average against 2nd team..Thomas has talent, he worked at his craft hard this offseason, I don't see the player on the roster that is gonna challenge him for the spot based on talent.
How so? What exactly did he do during the offseason to improve his vision and instincts as a runner? What did he do to improve his durability?
Remember Mike Sherman last year on Hard Knocks saying that they needed to look at Tannehill playing against the 1's of opposing teams? I think that's what you need to see with Jonas Gray this year. It's pretty clear what Daniel Thomas can do, but you have to give Jonas Gray a fair shake of it and give him some run time against someone else's 1's.
Exactly right. You can't actually call this a competition if Jonas Gray never even gets a call-up to where he can work against the same caliber defenders (and with the same caliber OL blocking) that Daniel Thomas runs with in his role. If Gray blows it, he blows it. But he's so far shown himself to be at least as capable of Thomas in those roles.
To be fair to Jonas Gray, two of those runs could only net a total of one yard since we were on the goal line...and those runs resulted in touchdowns so its tough to hold those against them. If you pull those out, it brings his average up to about 3.75. Not staggering, but much more respectable.
IMO, from the very little I've seen I already trust implicitly Gray in short yardage situations than I ever did Thomas.
Well, if the reports are true, and he did things correctly, strength, speed, explosion, drill work, then all those things can be improved upon..instincts to a lesser degree...hey, I'm not against replacing him, but I'm gonna need more than what we have seen from the others to do so.
Pretty much. I mean he was 2 of 2 in those goal line situations and he actually made the necessary adjustments and showed good instincts on both plays. And I thought the 6 yard run on 1st & 7 from near the goal line kind of also showed something I saw in college, which was that will of his when he's close to pay dirt. It's possible he just runs harder and more effectively when he knows there's a fixed point he has to get to as opposed to other runs where he's trying to break tackles and hit a homerun.
I think there were some reports that stated Daniel Thomas got into better shape this off season or something like that. They didn't say everything that DJ is making them out to have said, IMO.
So he waits to be going into year 3 to get into better shape. The very thing DJ used to criticize Ronnie Brown about. Not taking his physical conditioning seriously enough from the get go...
that's the thing, even on his short gains Gray showed good adjustments. When I evaluate college RBs the main thing I look for are vision and what happens from the point to where a defender is within arms distance. Gray shows good vision and the ability avoid/mitigate the first defender. If he was faster and more explosive he would be MJD, as it stands I the he could be anywhere between Tashard Choice and Garrison Hearst.
That's the point I made when the report came out. Say he does have a 'decent' year and for whatever reason that induces us to make sure he's back long term. What does he do next?
