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Lack of Tanny -> Wallace Explained

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PhinFan1968, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    Until the right side can block for Tannehill, Wallace isn't going to see anything. Tannehill clearly was taking off early. He didn't look comfortable. And I don't need him forcing the ball to Wallace. We saw how that worked with Henne and Marshall. If he doesn't have the time and he rolls, forces the ball to Wallace and it gets picked, everyone will be up his ***. Just let it happen naturally. If Wallace gets pissed, so be it. He's part of a TEAM last I checked.
     
  2. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    No excuses for Tannehill and Wallace not making a connection yet. It's a fail. Kind of like Henne Marshall not materializing then Marshall dominating the league with another QB. Wallace has to be the leading receiver on the team.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol
     
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  4. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    I hope my sarcasm meter is broken...
     
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  5. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Re: Lack of Tanny -> Wallace Explained

    11 preseason snaps is comparable to a full season to you then? The only preseason game that wallace is going to take more snaps than bumphis or mcnutt (not sure of the spelling) is the fourth one, and even then he might not. No receptions after that game and I agree you have a tannehill/wallace problem.

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    FTR, Jay Cutler threw 434 passes last year. Brandon Marshall only caught 118 of them.

    So please explain how 11 PRESEASON pass plays equals Tannehill to Wallace is a fail, but 300+ pass plays of nothing between Cutler to Marshall is dominant? Are you implying that Cutler never went more than 11 pass plays in a row that without going to Marshall? Is 11 consecutive pass plays the metric that passing success is gauged by?
     
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  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At least Omar Kelly's getting close on some of his football terminology...
     
  8. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lack of Tanny -> Wallace Explained

    Ted Ginn was a fast kick returner with a long stride, not a wide receiver. He couldn't run routes, he couldn't hold on to balls that hit him in the hands, he heard footsteps, and he ran for the sideline whenever there was the slightest chance of contact, regardless of where the first down marker was. Nevertheless, one time he got a couple of steps behind Darelle Reavis on a go route, caught a perfectly thrown ball, turned on the jets and left Reavis behind like he was standing still on the way to the end zone. Trouble was, that was a fluke. Imagine if he could have done that consistently.

    Wallace is a real wide receiver who can catch and run routes, and he doesn't panic when contact is coming.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I personally think we just caught a glimpse of what CAN be at stake if the offensive line protection is shaky. They seemingly spent a lot of resources this off season trying to strengthen the pass protection and if those efforts don't bear fruit then it could be a big deal.

    What we saw during the game was pressure but not necesarily Pressure with a capital P. Tannehill was pressured on 4 out of 11 plays which is in line with averages especially for such a small sample size.

    But it still threw a stick in the spokes enough that even though the coaches and players have been admitting they made a concerted effort to try and flex out their new toy Mike Wallace, they put up a goose egg as far as actually getting it to him. It was only one quarter, good luck keeping him bottled up for four quarters, but at the same time it was a quarter where nothing got done offensively until the backups started getting subbed in.

    Between drafting Dion Sims (a blocker), ditching Reggie Bush (notoriously bad at pass protection), grabbing a Lance Louis (pass protector) and a Tyson Clabo (pass protector) in free agency, and drafting a Dallas Thomas (pass protector), to me it's pretty clear there's an effort to make sure the group pass protection effort is better.

    The question is, since there's a flip side to everything, will those efforts bear fruit? If you want to look at the half-empty side of everything you could say that Dion Sims is a rookie, we're not sure Lamar Miller will be that much a better protector than Bush, Lance Louis may not start, Tyson Clabo is old and Dallas Thomas is also a rookie who also may not play. Meanwhile you've put your shakiest pass protector from a year ago over on the blind side.

    Placing your effort and resources into something and then failing to accomplish it tends to be more costly than ignoring it. And that goes for Mike Wallace. They placed a lot of money and effort into improving the passing game and if those efforts don't bear fruit, it will be costly.
     
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There's the whole key right there.
     
  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Quick look at the Wallace effect.

    This is 1st and 10 from the MIA 26. Pre-snap Jax has their SS walked up and all three corners showing press man.

    [​IMG]


    By the time the ball is snapped a few counts later things look slightly different. Hartline and and Gibson's men haven't budged from their aggressive position but #27 is already bailing. Does Wallace have bad breath or something? Not pictured is the FS, I'll get to that later.

    [​IMG]

    As RT hits the top of his drop #27 is still bailing, and if they wanted it, the curl, out, comeback etc route to Wallace would be WIDE open.

    [​IMG]

    Instead RT goes to Keller who has beaten the LBs down the middle. Keller catches the ball at a depth of 18 yards, notice that even with air time to break on the ball the FS is STILL 9 yards away, 27 yards deep. There's no way to know exactly how deep the FS got before the ball was thrown, he comes into camera view at the at the JAX 45 yd line so I'm 99% sure he was at least 30 yards down field. Did he think we were punting?

    [​IMG]

    To recap, 27 is bailing pre-snap, the FS responsible for giving help is half way to Ocala or Orange Park, Keller is WIDE OPEN almost 20 yards down field. That folks, is the Wallace effect.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not sure that's really unusual spacing given the defensive coverage. Not really sure it's evidence of game planning toward Mike Wallace.
     
  13. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I still like the pictures
     
  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Like I said, the DB was bailing to escape Wallace's halitosis and the FS thought we were punting.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It was 1st & 10 from the offense's 27 yard line and the defense was in a single-high look. That's not unusual spacing for the free safety in that scenario. Nor is it unusual for Wallace's corner to be in a bail considering he's playing opposite the free safety's rotation on the play.
     
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    It's quite unusual if you're the Miami Dolphins offense during the 2012 season. Or do you think they'd align the same way if Bess were at split end instead of Wallace? As for the corner, I don't understand why the DB with safety help would be bailing while the DB with no safety help is in Hartline's pocket. Other than Wallace is a deep threat and Hartline is not see why they'd do that.

    Either way, the result was a big gain on an easy throw. More like an 18 yard hand off than a challenging throw into a tight window. If teams don't view Wallace as a deep threat that's fine by me, chalk up another win.
     
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  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It was an 18 yard hand off because of the underneath coverage and because the pass rush didn't get to Ryan Tannehill. You say there was a corner with deep help and a corner without deep help. This really is not the case, IMO.
     
  18. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Mike Wallace and Ryan Tannehill should just kiss each other out in practice so they don't have to answer any more "chemistry" questions.
     
  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Looks like Cover 3 to me and the FS (deep middle responsibility) is so deep that he's useless even on a 20 yard throw down the middle.

    [​IMG]

    I don't think the underneath coverage was too bad and even if it was better Tannehill could've put more air on the ball and still gotten it to Keller well before the safety arrived. If you look at the angle the FS was taking to the ball it seems he was shaded more towards Wallace/Gibson though I can't be sure b/c I don't have the coaches tape.

    Keller runs his route with a lean towards the far hash, away from the FS and RT puts just enough arc on the ball to get it over the LBs and SS, leading Keller away from the FS. Nice execution there.
     
  20. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Wouldn't convince anyone. On the other hand, matching tattoos...
     
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  21. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    No, 11 consecutive pass plays is not the metric though Marshall caught one out of every 3.7 of Cutlers passes. Wallace should be a primary target. It's not enough to have Wallace as a distraction to beat teams that routinely put up 28 points. The Tannehill Wallace connection needs to be effective and it has not been as of YET. Effort to improve a unit, weather OL or WR that doesn't produce meaningful results is a pretty big set back. That said, I believe we will improve in the passing game and Wallace will be our number one receiver but that has not happened YET.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Steelers looked constricted on offense in that last preseason game, as in no mike Wallace..should be interesting seeing how their offense functions.
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    With that picture it looks even more clear. The corner on Mike Wallace not only had very little safety help to his side as the safety to his side was rotating to the opposite hash, but the corner on Mike Wallace had responsibility for both Mike Wallace AND the slot receiver (is that Gibson?) in the deep section of the field. No wonder he went into a bail right away. This is the proper technique given the coverage whether you start out lined up on the outside opposite Randy Moss or Wes Welker.
     
  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    The FS is heading to the far hash because he's reacting to RTs eyes and the flight of the ball not b/c that where he was assigned to play. The weak side corner goes to the flat, the SS is playing the curl zone, the LBs are covering the hook zones, INOW Cover 3.

    Why would JAX or any other team play the defense you're describing? What exactly is this coverage you're describing, Cover Nobody? Both safeties providing help to the same side of the field, leaving a corner to deal with 2 verticals on the other side. Tannehill doesn't even look towards the two receiver side. He comes straight to Keller. Keller is running towards the opposite hash, away from the FS. Hard to imagine he'd ignore Wallace & McNutt if they were going vertical with only one DB to defend them.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ryan scrambled on that play, moving up in the pocket.
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not talking about preseason but the whole year. Wallace was brought here to produce. Not act as a decoy. The decoy is gravy. He is being paid for chunk plays. I'm not saying anything about fail because its preseason. I'll reserve judgment for the real games.
     
  27. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I get what you're saying but IMO Wallace was brought here to help the team win games. If he's doing that then he's doing his job. He's not the kind of WR you can force the ball to, if teams cover him then the QB needs to go to his other receivers.
     
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  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's fine. But every good wr produces. Nobody is more feared than CJ And he gets 2000 yards. The more Wallace produces the better hell draw coverage.
     
  29. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    How's that working for Detroit? Stafford has led them to like 2 wins over teams with a winning season ever and throws INTs trying to force the ball to CJohnson.

    I agree that the more Wallace produces the better, but want team wins, not individual stats. If Wallace gets them anyway and we're still winning, then that is fantastic.
     
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  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He's here to do what he did in Pittsburgh. He is not here to what BMarsh did in Chicago last year.
     
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  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How did Dan Marino work for us? Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have more super bowl wins. How did Barry Sanders work for Detroit?

    If Wallace produces it helps us win games. We still need to play defense and special teams and have a balanced attack. But Wallace is being paid to produce AND make our offense better. When you can hit the end zone from your own 20 there is almost nothing better.

    I literally can't believe you asked how CJ is working for Detroit.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Duh, that's what I'm saying. 1200 yards and 10 TDs. Let's do this.

    I'm tackling the lowering expectations nonsense that if Wallace doesn't produce but acts like a decoy and we produce it's all good. No. He needs to produce, and soften the defense and everyone is better. We need more TDs and he's the best guy to do it (WR).
     
  33. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    The deep threat does indeed help the entire offense just by being there but in order to establish that it exsists, you have to hit it. Nobody is looking around the league and Shaking in their boots over Tannehill/Wallace. The more times they can connect for the LONG TD, the better for the entire offense. It is called respect ! Something we haven't had in years and one of the reasons I believe Ronnie Brown was underrated by most as his entire career in Miami was spent with 8 men in the box. Can Tannehill go deep? I've yet to see it. Does anyone have a video of Tannehill launching one 60 yards in the Air??? College or Pro

    I've seen nothing in Miami that I wouldn't just put 8 men in the box - shatter their running game and kill their QB on passing downs..He'll run for his life first sign of a rush anyhow. :pity:
     
  34. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Tanny and Wallace worked together often during the offseason. Both of them have said this. The team has closed portions of practice everyday for a reason. Until we see an actual game plan, during an actual game I think you all and the media are way over-reacting. Philbin is using the preseason for exactly what it is supposed to be used for; evaluating players. The staff knows what they have in Wallace. Now if we are 3 games into the season and Wallace has 0 receptions and 0 Td's then proceed to freak out. Keep in mind though the Dolphins had 13 receiving TD's. Whether or not Wallace makes the catches, that number is expected to grow in a hurry.

    This is why I hate preseason. People put way too much stock into what the starters do.
     
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  35. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    [video=youtube;HA6bou9tRp0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA6bou9tRp0[/video]

    I don't know about 60 yards in the air, but the 40 yard pass (in the air) to Hartline in the Cardinals game last year that ended up an 80-yard touchdown is basically what you need. Think that play and imagine Mike Wallace.
     
  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    That's because I didn't ask that. Your "reading into" what I wrote instead of simply "reading" what I wrote. It wasn't about CJ at all. Hate you missed the point.

    Production gets measured in different ways. The bottom line for me is team wins.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Huh?

    Tannehill was the third best QB in the league going deep last year, behind RGIII and Peyton Manning.
     
  38. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    In 2007, Tom Brady hooked up with Randy Moss (who had two blase' seasons at Oakland and many thought, as he entered his 10th season, whether there was anything left in the tank mentally and physically) exactly zero times in the pre-season (Moss was basically a non-player). The first game, Moss went 9 for 183 and a TD. And, had one of the best seasons ever. I don't think Wallace is in Moss' class, but I don't think it's such a big deal ... unless the players make it a big deal and start pressing.

    I also think Wallace does not have to catch bombs to be explosive - I would like to see him used on WR screens, slants and crossing patterns. He's equally explosive there and those are higher percentage plays.

    Plus, I agree, why give away the offense early?
     
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  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not worried, it's pre-season. They save the good stuff for the real games.

    That said, remember Wallace is a guy who admitted to losing focus when he doesn't catch balls/get targets. Remember that.
     
  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Force whiny fans to find something else to ***** about?
     

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