Hyde: Everything is at stake for Ireland, Philbin and Tannehill

Agree.

 

Nice move there Hyde, this is the article you break out on a slow news day. OK, so Wallace got fined for talking about his groin. That's the only sentence that couldn't have been written 3 months ago,.

 

Hyde is the only decent sports writer the sentinel has.The rest are hacks and bloggers.
He has written some brilliant pieces plus a few stinkers .This one is fairly realistic IMO.I agree with his theory .He is not wearing rose colored glasses like many fans do.This is the season to put up or shut up .

Sooner or later Ireland has to produce a better than mediocre season.If Tanny does not work out they will all go out with the bathwater.

 

Eh, imo everything should be at stake every season for every member of an organization.

We'll know by the end of the year if we are happy with our performance in 2013 or not.

 

I agree that a GM is married to the QB he drafts.

Im not certain that I love or hate Philbin's iron but emotionally stable fist. But Frazier has been the opposite and
Bellichick the same. I liked Sporanos enthusiasm on the sideline before he started fist-pump for field goals.

I don't see why Philbin is married to Ireland. 2 years is not enough unless you're 1-15 one miracle away from zero wins.

Sherman needs to go if the offense continues this way.

I am damn near certain ireland is looking at a divorce but I wouldn't base it on wins/losses
If I had the choice. If I see an exciting team on the field, talent progressing at QB, Jordan awing us just enough of hint for what's to come, I wouldn't can the guy if a few minor turns of fate left us below.500. But I REALLY gotta see that progressing talent to keep him.

 

Sounds fair and reasonable.

 

Who cares if hiring a head coach isn't his job?

 

The thing everyone forgets about is popping off some big runs. We have to be successful in the running game and be balanced.
This new passing game NFL can be over rated in a sense.
Running the football and keeping us in 2nd and short opens it up. If you can't run the football you are predictable.
Puts Tannehill in bad situations.

 

Problem is..... This is an awful mindset going into the 2013 season.

 

If Philbin was truly Ross's choice (McCoy being Ireland's), I think Philbin will be around a while, assuming he doesn't lose the team, like Sparano did (and Cameron before him). I don't see that as likely, since Philbin seems to be a smart, reasonable, collected, even-keeled guy, with his priorities in order. I'm not sure what the article means by "Ironfist." Having gotten a great look at Philbin in hardknocks, he's not Nick Saban. If a player breaks a rule and his punishes them, it's called accountability, not "Ironfist." While his humor is dry, it's likeable. Philbin is likeable...

I've been fooled before by coaches (Saban and Sparano specifically). Believing they were something that they're clearly not. However, despite not wanting to get suckered in, again, I freely admit I like Joe Philbin a lot. He strikes me as the real deal. A guy capable of taking that step up from coordinator to championship caliber HC (unlike Rex Ryan, Rivera, Turner, Garrett, etc...). I'm not concerned about JP.

This article is pointless. The expectations on Miami and Tannehill are largely media driven. If the team improves its overall (especially in the final 6-8 weeks), then Philbin, Tannehill, and Ireland will be back in Miami, planning for 2014. The sky will not fail and the hammer won't drop, unless this team completely ****s the bed.

 

Ross said he wants continuity with this team and the constant overhaul of the team is what set it back.

While I think he'll loose patience at some point, I'm sure Ireland and Philbin will have another year no matter what our record is this season (barring another 1-15 embarrassment).

Getting Ireland to only a 1-year extension if the season doesn't go well might be a different story.

 

Well said.

 

That's not something that is wriiten in stone though. If a GM comes in and likes what the current coach is doing but feels assistance and position coaches may need changing OR he feels he can find better talent than the previous GM then why not keep the current HC. And white washing the staff is pericated whether the owner wants a GM that will shake up in the oragnization and start over completely.

 

I don't agree that the article is pointless. Reality is that if the team doesn't show improvement then Ireland, Philbin and RT will probably be replaced. I'm a big Philbin and RT fan, but that's the unfortunate reality. You either get a nobody, young GM who'll take any job or you get an experienced GM who'll want to bring in people he has connections with.

I also agree that the moves the last few years have made sense. They're part of a plan. It's a clear deviation from the plan we had under Parcells. Only the blind or obstinate are still pretending that Ireland was in charge all along. It's also true that the plan has to work.

 

It's not written in stone, but it's what happens +95% of the time. It's naive to think that it isn't what would most likely happen here. There's a possibility of course, but it's slim to none.

 

I don't see why his decision must reflect that of Ireland / Philbin / Tannehill all at once.Ireland has been around longer than Philbin and Tannehil, and while I'm not an Ireland basher by any means (nor do I necessarily rally behind him, either - I'm somewhere in between so far), I think it makes sense to let go of Ireland before Philbin / Tannehill. I think it would be okay that those two are kept beyond Ireland's tenure, given that they have not been here nearly as long.

 

Sometimes new GMs give the incumbent coach a year, but it doesn't usually last much longer than that.

Phil Emerey still fired Lovie Smith after a 10-6 season, Idzik will probably fire Ryan after this year, Holmgren gave Mangini a year before canning him, etc.

 

It just rarely happens that way and when it does it's almost always considered a train wreck. Look at the Jets this year. They hired a new GM, but kept Ryan. (If Ireland is fired next year it will be b/c Philbin and RT had a poor season, so we'll be basically in the same boat perception wise). The GM went and got his QB, which may or may not be Ryan's QB. The media's talking about how Ryan wants Geno Smith to fail and how he doesn't want to start a rookie QB when he's a lame duck coach. The problem is that at best you have a coach and a QB with different time frames than your GM. I don't think it makes much sense to hope we emulate the Jets' model.

 

It is very simple for Ireland, Philbin, and Tannehill to avoid a discussion like this after the season is over. All they have to do is provide a winning team on the field. If the Dolphins finish at least 9-7, playoffs or not, I can easily see Ireland remaining the GM and Philbin and Tannehill becoming secure in their positions beyond this year.

If on the other hand, the team does not have a winning season, I think it will be time to bring in a new GM and let this GM decide if he wants to keep Philbin as his HC and Tannehill as the teams starting QB or draft a new young QB in the 2014 draft and hire a new head coach.

As Al Davis used to tell his players, "just win baby". That is all this team needs to do this year to end this talk regarding the GM, HC, and QB. If this team doesn't have a winning season, I expect major changes after this season.

 

Even though I agree it's become a broken record.

 

I'm not saying we follow the Jets model at all.

We don't have a coach on the hot seat who's saying he wants his QB to fail, nor do we know what we have at QB. It's an entirely different situation save the GM thing IMO

 

It's not really that rare to be honest.

And train wrecks happen on both sides of the aisle. The Raiders went out and grabbed Reggie McKenzie, he went out and hired Dennis Allen. That's not exactly working out too well. Yeah Mike Holmgren got to Cleveland and put up with Eric Mangini only one year before firing him, but then he hired "his" guy Pat Shurmur. That didn't exactly turn out well. When A.J. Smith finally got to hire "his" own guy in Norv Turner, that didn't go over so well, either. When Gene Smith got to hire "his" own guy Mike Mularkey, that ended in complete disaster. Scott Pioli was brought to Kansas City and allowed to hire "his" guy Todd Haley, that was bad. Then he hired another of "his" guys in Romeo Crennel, was no better off for it.

For some reason people have this idea in their head that the General Manager comes first and the Head Coach has to be his hire, almost like his underling. There's NEVER been just one way to skin that cat though.

It could just as easily be that the Head Coach is instrumental in the hiring of the General Manager. That's the case in New England with Bill Belichick and Nick Caserio. Jim Harbaugh was instrumental in the choosing of Trent Baalke as personnel head in San Francisco. Bill Cowher was around in Pittsburgh long before Kevin Colbert became his Director of Football Operations.

People are just stuck in this one-track way of thinking. Have they ever stopped and thought about the possibility that if Jeff Ireland were not retained but Joe Philbin was, that it would be Joe Philbin who could be instrumental in the hiring of the next General Manager, and that the General Manager might have some loyalty to Joe because of that? Why does it automatically have to be some guy that has the power to hire and fire the head coach, and immediately there's some contentious relationship?

I didn't see anyone assuming that would be the case when Tony Sparano was shoved out the door and the Dolphins began a hiring process with a leftover General Manager in Jeff Ireland. So why the hell would people assume it when it's the other way around?

 

Sure, but I would think you would want your top people in an organization to be loyal to one another, and the players loyal to them. More so if it's going well, but loyalty in bad times can bond a team together. It's automatically the guy that has the power in the way that it's automatically the coach and the Quarterbacks "fault" that the team is losing. Forget the fact that there are other coaches and players. It's not right, but, (and I can't stand this saying) it is what it is.

 

Ryan never said he wants his QB to fail, but that's the assumption that gets made regardless. And if you bring in a new GM after a poor season on the field, you will have a coach on the hot seat.

 

It doesn't matter who is first. If we hired the next Jim Harbaugh and he brought a GM with him the effect is the same. The GM and coach are generally brought in on the same time frame. We had an odd situation here since it was obvious Parcells was the guy who made the calls and that Ireland didn't have final say, so Ireland was given the clean slate by the owner, but any new GM with any juice will almost assuredly bring in his own guy.

 

Maybe Philbin is like Coughlin

 

I think maybe just for Ireland.....but nothing is at stake for RT, unless he Tebow's it, which I think we can all agree is damn near an impossibility.....Coach will survive if they go 7-9 or 8-8 and miss the playoffs IMO.......

Ireland gets the sword at that point....it would be too much turnover....

 

Please explain.

 

While your comments are correct, it appears Ross wants the GM to have total control over player personnel decisions and also have input on the hiring of the HC. At least this has been the case so far with Ireland as the teams GM. I don't know if Ross ever really had a chance to hire Harbaugh because I think Harbaugh always wanted the 49er's job. I do think that Fisher would have come to the Dolphins if he had been given final say on player personnel decisions and he could have had a say so in the hiring of the teams GM.

Some owners seem willing to give up more power to the head coach, but Ross has so far not been one of these owners. Unfortunately for Philbin, if Ireland is let go after this season, it will be because the team didn't meet Ross's expectation on the field. If that is the case, it is unlikely that Ross would be happy with the job Philbin did with the team and that would make it less likely he would want Philbin's input in selecting the teams next GM.

I also doubt any top GM would be interested in taking the job if it means he would have to answer to a HC who would have just finished his second year as an NFL HC and both of these seasons his team finished under 500.

The top Head Coaches in the NFL might be able to demand more control than the GM, but Philbin hasn't yet proved he is a top HC, or even a good HC. Maybe once he actually has a team that makes the playoffs for several years, he will be able to go to the owner and request more control over areas which the GM now has total control. A 7-9 record in the regular season certainly isn't enough evidence that Philbin deserves to be involved in the hiring of a new GM. Especially when a new GM will only be hired if Philbin fails to put a winning team on the field in 2013.

 

I disagree. I see half measures as unlikely. If the team shows progress than everybody is safe. 8-8 might do that, but create a shorter leash for the following year. 9-7 regardless of the playoffs would probably do it.

 

I think it will take at least 9-7 this year for Ireland to remain. I do agree that 8-8 might allow Philbin and Tannehill to get at least one more year to turn it around, but the Dolphins will have to be a playoff team by the end of the 2014 season or Philbin and Tannehill will end up being replaced by the new GM.

 

I agree. To me, saying this year is make or break for this regime is a bit ridiculous. You've got to see it play out at least three years. If Tannehill shows improvement again this year, and into next, I'd even say four possibly because of how inexperienced he was at QB coming out of college. Of course, that's if everything is going as planned. If this team craps the bed, and Philbin looses the lockerroom, then you of course pull the trigger. I know some will say, Ireland has had X number of years now to fix this, and hasnt, he needs to go... and yes, I'd agree. However as part of this regime, with Philbin and company, I think you have to throw the prior years out the window since we are now acquiring talent for a new system, a new coach.

I'd hate to not bring back Ireland next year, yet keep Philbin. I say that, because as of right now, I want to keep Philbin. He's shown so far, that he's probably the right man for the job. I'd hate to go into next season with a new GM, and Philbin again. It's just a bad situation. I'd rather see Ireland get extended to match the end of Philbin's deal (if it doesn't already), then you make your decision after that expiration. Either that or extend them both until the end of next season, then make your decision, unless something unforseen and awful happens to the performance of the team. At least that way you can hire a new GM, and head coach, and likely draft another QB if you need to all together.

 

Sort of like how any Head Coach with any juice will almost assuredly want say over who his GM is going to be?

So you're worried about us getting a "second rate" guy at General Manager because of tihs. I guess that means Joe Philbin is a second rate coach too.

 

Its weird to me that this stance is being taken. The reason its weird is because you arguing for a scenario where the GM is influenced or even controlled by another person, when you have vehemently argued that kind of scenario did not happen here.

 

Philbin is a first-time head coach with no juice. I'm a big Philbin fan, but he hasn't proven anything yet.

 

There's no indication that Steve Ross believes that the General Manager should hire the Head Coach. Steve Ross currently has a power structure set up so that there's a business head (CEO), a coaching head (Head Coach) and a personnel head (General Manager) and all three answer directly to him, and not to anyone else.

Steve Ross has shown a willingness to utilize the other department heads within the football operations as tools in helping him determine who should fill the other chair. Jeff Ireland was already here, and Steve Ross had already made the decision that he was going to be retained, so he was used as a voice in the room. But the hiring process was not run by Jeff Ireland nor was it Jeff Ireland who made the decision on who would be the Head Coach. That was Steve Ross who did that. Jeff Ireland merely helped set up the table and served as a consultant to Ross in making his decision.

That's the process that Ross has set up for this. And so it would be the most unsurprising thing in the world if Jeff Ireland were allowed to leave on an expiring contract, and when the Dolphins set up a search for a new General Manager, Joe Philbin took Jeff Ireland's former role in helping Steve Ross make that decision.

So yes, the new General Manager would be someone that Joe Philbin likes, and would feel some loyalty to Joe Philbin as an EQUAL under Steve Ross who helped get him hired.

 

So why do you automatically disapprove of that concept sight-unseen in a General Manager but not a Head Coach?