Can't we ever just maintain that Jake Long was everyone's choice? Why is it Parcells or Ireland? Why can't it be both? It's like we're trying to either convict Ireland (saying it was his fault) or give him shelter (saying it was Parcell's decision). How about, it was both of their decision and in hindsight, it was the wrong one? http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3358424
It doesn't really matter. Its just a way to explain that Ireland didn't have the autonomy that has been suggested ad nauseum. Its a part of an overall point.
That's certainly the united front they tried to portray, I just don't believe it was true. I do think it was united in one way. Parcells had final say so everybody obviously agreed with him. I just don't understand the people that want to blame the guy that didn't final say.
It WAS everyone's choice. Jeff Ireland explicitly stated that he had Jake Long pegged as the #1 player in the draft for well over a year.
Jeff certainly had no reason to present a united front after Bill has been gone. Bill said he sent Henning, Sparano and Ireland to check the three other guys out and they all said Henne was every bit as good as Flacco and Ryan. Not one of the 3 have rebutted or responded to challenge that. You can believeall 3 are just taking the high road, or you can believe it's most likely true. And if we think Ireland wanted to take the high road, let's not forget this is the guy who jumped on a plane to woo a prospective coach while still having one on staff. I don't see Ireland as a high road type of guy. Maybe I'm wrong. Yes Parcells had final say but that doesn't mean Jeff Ireland was opposite on every choice.
I always find it curious when fans who have no idea of the inner workings of an organization start trumpeting some underling from another team's personnel department as some kind of savior GM. Ross may be well regarded and there may be good buzz about him, but that was the case with virtually every GM before they got their first GM gig. And the vast majority of those guys were then fired within 3-4 years. More than anything, the GM's role in the personnel process is about decision making. The fact that a guy worked under another guy who made good decisions doesn't mean that that guy would have made the same decisions or that he'll make good decisions in the future. The fact is that we have no idea what kind of decisions a guy like Ross would make or would have made in the past if he was a GM with the actual authority/responsibility to make the picks. Would Ross have made the same decisions on the Giants good picks, like JPP and Nicks, if he had final decision-making authority? Was he the guy who pounded the table for their bad picks, like Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin or Jerrel Jernigan? We don't know.
It's kinda ancient history, but I don't see how/why trying to woo a prospective coach while still having one on staff is taking a low road. The fact is that every head coach and every GM in the history of professional sports has always sought improvements/replacements for players they already have on their team. Every team woos free agents that they think will be better than the guys they have and every team drafts players that they think/hope will be better than the guys they have. Nobody ever suggests that they should cut/release the players they have before attempting those upgrades. Indeed, it is almost universally derided as moronic when a team releases its starter before it has his replacement in hand. Every player who doesn't perform well has to deal with an offseason of talk and speculation as to whether he will still have a job for the next season or if he will be replaced with one of the numerous guys the team is wooing in FA or interested in drafting. From a moral/ethical standpoint, it should be no different for coaches. In fact, it is even more the case with coaches because they have guaranteed contracts that entitle them to get paid whether they are retained or not, whereas the players do not have such guaranteed contracts. It can be argued that seeking a new coach before you get rid of the old one isn't smart because it undermines the coach's authority with the players if he is retained, but that is a practical issue, not a high road/low road issue.
Of course he would. Not saying he didn't or did. But he certainly couldn't say he liked Matt Ryan better.
He didn't have to say anything at all. He could have said 700 billion other things that would not be a direct lie, if that's what you believe (that he was flat out lying). He's lied before so maybe he was lying. But I don't find it helpful to just assume everything he says is a lie.
QB needy teams do often bypass the best player in favor of a QB though, perhaps Ireland would have done the same for Matt Ryan if there was no Parcells' influence. For the record Jake Long is Ireland's pick IMO (because that is who we wound up with), but it certainly seems plausible that he would have picked differently if Parcells was not involved.
I don't understand how that's useful though. If Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman weren't involved then would Ryan Tannehill have been the pick? Would Michael Egnew have been the pick in the 3rd round if there were different voices in the room asking for different things? Does that mean Jeff Ireland didn't pick Egnew or Tannehill? If a CEO of a company had a different CFO, would the company's finances be exactly the same? Of course not. As a consensus builder, you're going to be influenced by all of the voices in the room. All of them. That goes for your top personnel lieutenants (Brian Gaine, Grier, etc), it goes for Tony Sparano, Joe Philbin, Mike Sherman, Dan Henning, Kevin Coyle, Paul Pasqualoni, etc. And yes, it even goes for your boss. But none of that, none of it at all, absolves the man with final responsibility on personnel decisions from making the right choice. Your circumstances are what they are, and you're paid a boat load of money and given the big desk in order to manage those circumstances and make the best decisions. Jeff Ireland had Jake Long rated as the #1 player in that draft for over a year ahead of time. He was the GM, he took Jake Long. He gets the credit for that decision.
Sure he did, at a minimum out of loyalty and also just not make the organization look like crap or himself as impotent or admit that it was a lie when we took him from Dallas and expose the team to the possible lose of a draft pick. And of course he wasn't opposite on every choice. Just like he wasn't unanimous on every choice. The folly is pretending that he was. I've consistently maintained that we only know for certain that Ireland had final say after Parcells left. Before that we only know that Ireland had control over the UDFAs. On the picks there have been rumors and reports about certain picks, like Jake Long and Pat White for Parcells and Reshad Jones for Ireland, but I've placed all of those under the one guy we knew had final say, Parcells. It just makes no sense to blame the guy who didn't have final say when you don't know what he wanted. Now that being said, I have no doubt that Ross has a much better idea of which players Ireland was recommending. Ross said that he evaluated Ireland by going to the scouting staff and through the reports and emails so he probably does have a decent idea what was Ireland's and what wasn't. IMO it's logical to assume that Ireland wasn't unanimous with Parcells. If he had been I imagine he would have been fired when Parcells left.
We're in trouble if Ireland thought Henne was as good as Flacco or Ryan, I think the idea was 2 for 1, slack on the Qb a little because you weren't gonna find the left tackle the caliber of jake in the 2nd, and I think that order came strait from the top.
Henne was as good as Flacco and Ryan when you only grade a QB by Parcells' checklist. In fact, Henne is THE prototype collegiate Parcellian QB.
I still don't see why anyone is complaining about drafting what would've been a HOF left tackle had an accumulation of injuries not occurred.
I think this is an error of memory on your part. The reports as I recall them were that Sparano and Ireland wanted Jake Long, but Parcells wanted Chris Long. In deference to Sparano and Ireland, Parcells let them negotiate before the draft with Jake Long, but set a deadline after which they would have to break off negotiations and move on to Chris Long.
He didn't... Henne was always 3rd to Ryan and Flacco in both talent and and costs during that draft. Parcells had his own rating system that he used in the first couple drafts. He talked about it a couple years ago. One of the articles is here from Violin - http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...s-pick-because-he-was-not-quite-as-expensive/
Yes but we're talking about just Jake Long. And if ck is correct, he had him as #1 ... even while still on the Cowboys, before he knew he was going to Miami. I'm not saying Ireland is solely responsible for Jake Long. I'm saying he was a part of it and everything he's said before and after confirms that and until you give hard evidence he actually preferred and/or fought for someone else, the evidence is heavily tilted to one side.
I meant in the literal sense..if that's the way you wanna pick players as a GM Then you can follow a scouting subscription to make your evaluations.. A list is not able to determine how the mind will work.
You don't want to read it, don't read it, show some restraint. The fact is you can't help but read it and so you do. If you can't stomach accurate assessments of what we have and if you want to bury your head in the sand, then do it. Also, don't pretend I haven't seen enough film of Jarvis Jones to know the guy transcends to the NFL. I googled him to see how he was doing in camp in Pittsburgh. You know get some assessment from the guys watching that camp everyday.
You may be onto something - Ireland, Philbin, and Coyles must all secretly have ties to Pennsylvania. Eagles and Steelers fans, the lot of them... Johnson and Jones... both last names start with "J O". The names together have 12 letters. Pennsylvania has 12 letters. A plot? Yesssss, it makes sense now. Ireland and Philbin take only inferior players to sabotage both their careers and the Dolphins organization so that the Steelers and Eagles can have the players we would normally take if it weren't for these moles. By Jove man! You've done it!! You've unraveled their nefarious plan!! And "The Condor". I like it!!! On the other hand... maybe you're just on something...
it'd be close. The line was in such disarray that it would've been tough for me to take Matt Ryan #1 over Jake when Ryan wasn't even a consensus #1 pick.
I can't give you hard evidence. I know what I know of that situation b/c of the connections I used to have. That info confirmed the reports in the local papers that stated that Ireland preferred Ryan. That doesn't mean he had him rated higher, just that he preferred him due to the importance of the position. I'm not asking you to believe me. You're free to believe whatever you want. But it should explain why I feel confident in my understanding of what happened.
So we should judge Ireland now but he's only a success or failure based on our record at the end of this season. somehow I don't see the logic here.
Seems to me a case Parcells made was inherently flawed. They want the HC to cook the dinner, but expect the GM to buy the groceries,. Problem is the HC/OC/DC & ST coaches all have ro tell the GM if he is allowed to buy organic, large or small turkeys, how much he has to spend, and the GM is handicapped by what players are available when/where we draft And what round we're in, as ell as what quality food is there in FA and on top of all that the GM is given no control over which players might be injured. IMVHO Jeff Ireland has had so many coaches, lack of talent available to draft when we've bee up, and has adapted to such different coaching styles, player styles/profiles, and while doing some stupid things along the way (is yo mammal a hooker.) But has still infused this team with pretty solid talent, while getting us out of salary cap Hell, and so on, including new owners to adapt to, that I am inclined to give Ireland through 2014 and keep Philbin & co. In place too. Put all those road blocks in almost any other GM's place and I honestly don't think they would be sitting here right now with the talent-laden team we have to build on. I honestly don't really like Ireland as a person, but I say give him through the 2014 season with Philbin & crew, before passing judgement on the guy.
