Moving on from Keller

Well, now we are going to find out what the coaches really think of the remaining TEs. Philbin has spoken highly of Egnew lately, lets see just how high he really is on him - if they feel the need to add a veteran TE.

 

I don't think Sims is going to break any ankles with his cuts. I also don't think he's the stiff-as-a-board TE some would make him out to be. I certainly don't expect him to challenge Keller in the highlight-reel department. But, I think he has enough juice to get separation on a cross or a 5-yard out. And, if he catches it, he's tough to bring down.

He's just not the same type TE as Keller, so, I'm not going to compare Dion to that. I'm expecting Clay to try and fill that role. I'm expecting Dion to be more of an old-school TE... a faster version of Fasano. I definitely think there's still a role for those guys.

 

Not the same type? Or not the same caliber?

Because I'm thinking the latter, which was the point.

 

Over the last three drafts, Ireland has used 3 draft picks to select players who play TE, Clay, Egnew, and Sims. It is now time for one or more of these draft picks to actually start showing that they were capable picks by Ireland.

This team is made up of a majority of free agent starters and the better teams in the NFL have been built through solid drafts. It is time for the draft picks to step up and become worthy of being draft picks in the NFL. I see no need to go out and sign a free agent veteran TE when there are three TE's now on the roster that Ireland felt were good enough that he drafted them. The pressure now should be on these three TE's and Ireland.

 

Keller was my favorite offensive acquisition this off-season. I see him as providing a security blanket and redzone target that we lacked last year. I don't think it cripples us b/c I see Gibson providing a bit of that as well. We just lost a really good, big target. I think Clay, Sims and Egnew can each provide different parts of what Keller did, but not in one package and not quite as well.

 

19 total starts at QB in college. Won the starting job and started all 16 games his very first season in the NFL. That, in itself, is simply amazing.

Andrew Luck was the highest-rated draft pick... ever. Comparing Tannehill to Andrew Luck, at this time, is simply ludicrous. I'd like to see how Luck would have done in a full season in the NFL, with Miami's 2012 WRs, after starting only 19 games in college. Probably would have had about the same results, or worse, than Tannehill. I'm not saying Tannehill is, or will ever be, as good as Luck. I'm just saying it's not fair to compare him to the highest-rated college QB ever, then sell him short. They came to the NFL in very different circumstances, and we're only entering year two of their careers.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. We'll see. Weeden is a good QB most of the time, but his lapses are about as catastrophic as Jake Locker's. However, I'm pretty sure that if Weeden is to improve more than Tannehill this season, he's got his work cut out for him. I expect Tannehill to take a big step forward.

 

Well unfortunately I don't trust The Ginger's judgement, though that doesn't mean we need to sign some broke down aging free agent, we should just sign whichever one of the Green Bay TE's doesn't make the team, Quarless, DJ Williams, even Brandon Bostic might be better than what we have.

 

Sims... an unproven rookie 4th round TE... is not the same caliber as a proven 6th year former 1st round TE. You got me.

But, Sims isn't the only TE, isn't going to be expected to fill Keller's shoes, and Keller wasn't the centerpiece of the offense to begin with. That was my point. I don't think we're disagreeing here... unless you think that the Phins are going to miss the playoffs now because Keller is on IR and Sims can't get separation on a sluggo route vs Adrian Wilson. I don't think that's what you're saying... is it?

 

Your first sentence- "amazing" that he won the starting position last year? Hardly, imo. Did he outplay David Garrard or Matt Moore? Garrard got hurt, and from what I saw (and what I remember) Moore, the team MVP the year before, had a better preseason. He was the 9th pick in the 1st round, he was very much given the inside track to start imo.

It's not that I dislike Tannehill, but I do see warning signs. Again:

- he sucked on 3rd downs last year

- he stared down recievers

- I question his feel for the position.

The WR corps was upgraded with Wallace/Gibson, that'll help. I brought up Luck because he proved something last year- imo Tannehill didn't. My opinion is that the jury is very much out on him, he has a lot to prove this year. Is Tannehill truly competent at the position? Time will tell.

 

Sims is not Keller. If you want to know the probable truth, it will likely be tight end by committee. Sims on early or run downs and someone with some better hands and better moves on passing downs.

I still contest that we should junk the position all together and go spread with three or four WR's. Lets pretend we want to score in bunches.

 

Sims is not replacing Keller. IMO they wanted to use both together quite often. Replacing Keller will fall on the shoulders of Clay and Egnew.

 

I thought he had a 50/50 chance before Keller got hurt. IMO, he has about a 75% chance now, at the least. It will be very telling how much we use him and in what roles, in the "dress rehearsal" game vs Tampa Bay next week.

 

That's better

 

When one pays attention to where both were lining up, who was starting, etc, as I know you do more than about anyone, it is kind of an obvious and logical pattern of thought.

 

Wow, that's a serous call, like that Fin, he did flash some speed and flexibility on a couple routes.

 

Egnew flashes brilliance as a receiver at times. He is still a work in progress though. By next year he could be Jimmy Graham lite.

 

Damn, my bad...don't drink it..

 

Nope. At the combine he was 4.53

 

Hah, neither do I. Hate the stuff.

 

I stand corrected then. I didn't think anyone still had that much hope for him.

 

he outplayed em Jim, wasn't close how he took over that camp.

 

@ the combine, Sims ran a 4.68. I do not know where that 4.75 came from. He weighed 262 lbs at 6047.
Escobar ran a 4.78 and Ertz ran a 4.68 at the combine.
From what I read, Sims never ran at his pro day. He stood on his combine time. All he did was bench, short shuttle and cone. He improved significantly on his cone from a 7.36 at the combine to a 7.16 at his pro day.

 

I don't recall Tannehill looking markedly better that Moore, but he certainly had the advantage of knowing the offensive system brought in. Regardless, my point is that I hardly found it amazing that Tannehill won the job- he was the high/pick new face of the franchise and my guess is that the FO wanted him to win the job, beginning of a new era, etc. Matt Moore was lauded rfor how well he handled the demotion when he wasn;t clearly outplayed, if at all, iirc.

I already stated my case twice, so no need to do it again. I like/do not love Tannehill as a QB, and I certainly think that he has a lot to prove this year. That being said, I hope that he has a great year.

 

IMO, Keller was our 3rd most important offensive player after Wallace and Tannehill.

 

Draft Countdown is showing 4.75, but the combine does that crazy stuff where you see a good 40 number and then it gets downgraded, or something of that nature- they have it so twisted that part of me wants to disregard the combine as per player speed. Joe Adams and Joe Haden are around 4.57 guys? Sure.

Btw nice sized mitts on Sims at 10.5"- dude has quick feet but that doesn't make him a lateral threat- I wouldn't call him nifty. He has the makings of a big, solid, very good blocking TE with some athletic ability and hands that can help to make him a very good all-around NFL TE. He can provide the thunder and Clay/Egnew and whoever else can provide the lightning. Keep an eye out for TE Sudfeld from NE, I expect big things from him.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/ScoutingCombine/positions/TE.php

 

Me too. Never drank coffee in my life. I have eaten chocolate covered coffee beans though. Great energy source.
I am a tea drinker myself. Preferably green tea with some fresh squeezed lemon and a half teaspoon of organic honey.

 

I thought I recalled reading comments from you yourself where you mentioned flashes of pass catching brilliance from Egnew. The problem is consistency.

 

That is not his official 40 time. If you want accuracy on combine info go to nfldraftscout.com

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=89783

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/7

http://walterfootball.com/combine2013TE.php

Still showing 4.75, and 4.75/4.72 sounds familiar.

 

Right, but they had plans for Keller/Sims combo as much as anything IMO.

 

It would be helpful if Miller/Thigpen/Thomas could line up in the slot to create the matcup issues Keller was going to help to create.

 

NFLDS is showing the best hand held time.

Going by the combine master recording, which you are going to have to take my word for because I cannot share it...Sims' 4 hand held times were 4.68, 4.75, 4, 75, and 4.78
He compares pretty well with Ertz and Escobar though. Ertz was 4.68, 4.68, 4.75, and 4.78. Escobar was 4.78, 4.79, 4.87, and 4.90.
Sims smoked both of them on vertical and was only a half inch less than Eifert's 35.5

ESPN, et al, are right though too, the 4.75 is his best electronic time. CK has made a lot of good points over the years of why the combine ETs are not necessarily more accurate than the hand helds.
Best ETs for the others: Ertz 4.76, Escobar, 4.84

 

Don't know what u were watching then

 

To top it off, doctors in Cleveland are telling the press that Mingo very easily could've died on that play where he bruised his lung. Who knows what that will spell for him long term...health > football.

 

I think Ireland has to start looking either at a possible trade or via people being released .This was a big lost in my book

 

I expect to see a player for player deal maybe. Sort of like Jenkins for Baldwin today. Or, as CK said, a waiver pick up of a promising young player caught by numbers. I don't think you simply replace Keller. It will be more by committee.

 

I agree with most of the OP, except there is no way McNutt is the 5th WR. Tyms and Bump are both ahead of him, and by a pretty wide margin IMO.

 

Not if you go by who lines up in the last two games.