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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO Martin and DT are the top two being criticized unfairly. Martin has graded out as our best OL this preseason according to PFF yet if you were to read some reviews of his performance here, you'd swear he was among the worst, second only to Samuda. Anything he does well is written off as due to substandard opponents or him getting help.

    DT gets the same treatment with some claiming he hasn't done anything. Again anything positive must be due to substandard competition or great blocking. I think some have just made up their mind and only see what they want to see. I think that the cut I saw him make at about 7:13 of the 2nd quarter was the best cut I've seen any Miami back make this preseason. That run wasn't against starters so some will discount it, but IMO that cut would have worked against anybody. That was just a great read and an explosive move. And he followed that up with a string of strong, decisive cuts.
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    Agreed. I understand the negativity towards Thomas because he hasn't proven himself, but this is only his 3rd season. Sometimes guys take a couple of years to blossom.
     
  3. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    A lot of the media guys are saying DT has outperformed Miller so far. I would like to see DT get some extended work early Saturday against Tampa and see how he does.
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I've been negative towards him myself primarily due to his being injury prone. I've thought all along that he has the talent to be a good 3rd down back and a decent fill-in starter but if he's injured he can't produce. I do think he fits well in a zone scheme. I think what hurts him is that he is not a good power back. His lack of production in that capacity has turned many against him. It's like the Hartline TD thing where some fans get fixated on one weakness in a player's game and ignore what the players do well.
     
    Rocky Raccoon likes this.
  5. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Come on man. Martin gave up a free hit on Tannehill against a guy he was dominating. He just stood there and watched his QB take one in the back. I'm not sure how PFF grades stuff but I would give that play the worst possible rating available.

    Daniel Thomas is a nice surprise. He's got his pad level lower and is running with attitude. His pass blocking has been stellar.
     
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I personally don't see much reason for concern over Thomas as our #2 back or spot starter at the moment [barring injury]. He's gotten bigger, stronger, and dare I say faster and seems to be running with more decisiveness & authority. His vision is what it is- not outstanding but not terrible either. I've seen the blocking he's running behind this preseason and it hasn't been anything to write home about IMO.
     
  7. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    My problem with that statement is DT is a running back. Arguably the easiest position to transition from coming out of college. As where Martin is just going into his second season after playing out of position at RT and then transitioning back to LT when Long was hurt.

    I'm all for eating crow if DT plays great this year. Nothing would make me happier, tbh. I just won't believe that's going to happen until it does happen.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The ball has to come out of THill's hand, Martin should have sustained his block, true.

    However, THill is hesitating far to much this preseason, he had plenty of time to throw, just could not pull the trigger.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I honestly have no skin the game when it comes to who I think is the better running back...no loyalty to one guy over the other. But I honestly and genuinely do not get the DT fascination. He's not been very good as you said. To me, he looks out of control of his body when he runs. Miller seems head and shoulders better to me as the main explosive back and Gray seems head and shoulders better to me as the short yardage power back.
     
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    You may end up being right, but DT has had a good camp so far based on all the reports. He may be ready to finally prove himself this year. I am also a fan of Miller and the 2 of them COULD make a nice combo together.
     
  11. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Up Arrows
    1. Ryan Tannehill (people were looking for a big showing, were looking for hook-ups with Wallace, and he performed admirably this week. Two TD drives. 10-15 for 141. You can nitpick about holding the ball and accuracy, but he was good. If he looks like that each week, who wouldn't be happy?)
    2. Mike Wallace (this goes hand-in-hand with Tannehill, but he hadn't made a catch in the preseason, and the media-driven fans were thinking [and still are]: are we going to get our money's worth? This week they did.)
    3. Marvin McNutt (not my favorite choice here, but he had a catch without a drop. For whatever reason, the coaches seem to like WRs that can play inside and out. Bumphis got only limited snaps and didn't have production this week. As much as I have thought Bumphis was on the team, I'm not so sure anymore. I think McNutt may have a leg up. This week should tell the tale, but Bumphis/Tyms seem like practice squad guys right now, even though I think Bumphis has outplayed McNutt/Tyms [at the receiver position, and obviously as far as production goes].)

    Down Arrows
    1. Jimmy Wilson (the 15-yard penalty flags need to stop, especially for a guy on the borderline [although I still think he's on the 53]; one was bad, two is a trend...)
    2. Josh Samuda/Lance Louis (Samuda tweeted it was only two plays, but it was only a quarter and a half. Louis still looks like he needs more recovery time.)
    3. Will Davis (gave him props when he was good, and he has to take the lumps when he isn't so good. I think he'll learn, but as we see, there are going to be growing pains. The same will probably be true with Jamar Taylor.)
     
    Bpk likes this.
  12. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I really believe it will a ride the hot hand rotation between Miller/DT and to be honest again, I haven't seen anything out of any of these backs that makes me comfortable with the position. DT did some nice things in the Houston game, and he has done some nice things in the past for Miami. However, we've seen him do some nice things in the past but he can never sustain a consistancy.

    He had a two game stretch where he had 41 carries for 202 yards and caught 4 balls for 37 yards scoring a TD versus Houston and Cleveland to open the 2011 season. We were all like, this is it....averaging 4.9 per carry and he looked HOT.

    He was crap the rest of the way, finishing the last 14 games with barely 3.0 average never again gracing the Endzone.

    DT was supposed to be the future answer to Reggie Bush moving on, his 2011 season was so bad, drafting Lamar Miller became necessary.

    Now with Miller, he has a gear DT doesn't, but plays like the arm tackle in the Houston game where he took a minus 2, leave you shaking your head.

    If you could possibly combine the two of them and sprinkle a little Gray on top, then we might have the back of the future.

    I think what were going to see this season, is we still need a feature back.
     
  13. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    I sort of think it's going to be Miller as the primary back, while Thomas and either Gray/Gillislee will back him up. Miller has the explosion the other backs seem to lack. As long as it doesn't become consistent, I'm glad he got the lack-of-concentration drop out of the way in a preseason game rather than doing it in a regular season game. One would think he'll work on that, concentrate from now on, watch the ball into his hands, and not make the same mistake again. Miller seems to see the holes fairly well, and he cuts and BAM! - he's through them. And he seems to have different gears he can shift into, much more so than DT or the other backs... although I haven't seen Gillislee enough to really get a read.

    And to be honest, with our three wide we run a lot and our more wide-open game, I think Miller is the back that fits into that type of offense more than any of the others.
     
    72 Dolphins likes this.
  14. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I definately think you could be right. Lets see what Miller can do and lets see if he can take the pounding.

    I'm hoping he shows something more than Thomas ever has.

    Do I think he'll hold up - No but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
     
    Finrunner likes this.
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't argue with Ireland's first two picks, extremely high on Jordan, thought Jamar was top 5 corner,and really liked his completeness and competitive nature, we could of went Montee ball or Eddie lacy who I loved, instead, but I think Jamar is gonna be a baller so I'm good with the picks..I would of went Step Taylor over Jenkins but that's just me..didnt have any confidence in Gray coming into the season.
     
  16. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Loved Lacy also, and I think it is criminal he went to Green Bay....just what Rodgers needed, a feature back.

    I hated the Jordan pick, as is documented, and I haven't been well recieved for those views. I just thought it was a dumb position to address and if you had this itch to address it, take Jones, who I think was the class of the position.

    I wanted Tyrann Mathieu but knew Miami would never take him, considering the baggage. Honey Badger is going to be a playmaker in Arizona. I also wanted Lacy, but knew they wouldn't take him that early in the 1st round (before they traded up), and I didn't expect him to last to our 2nd round pick. When they did trade up, I thought it was Lane Johnson for sure, disappointing when they didn't take him, it fit this team. When they took Jordan, I cried, but then I told myself he probably has Brandon Albert in the bank.

    All in all ... Ireland is moving in the right direction, but it is slower than it needs to be. I'm critical of the guy to the extreme, but in all actuality he has made some productive moves. They all just seem to be no brainers. The Jordan pick will haunt him, write that down. I have no problem giving him to 2014, as I really don't want to start over AGAIN and I think this team is still another season away.

    GO DOLPHINS.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The fact that everyone is "pleasantly surprised" with Daniel Thomas for amassing 48 yards on 13 carries (according to the play by play of official NFL gamebooks) while having 0 broken tackles and 1.75 yards after contact per carry (which is even lower than his career average, which was already near the bottom of the league), and having gained 3 yards or less on over 60% of his runs...this is a commentary on where Daniel Thomas' career is at and how little folks expect from him.

    People can cry for him all they want about unfair criticism, etc. Those are just facts. If statements of facts and the bringing forth of objective evidence are deemed to be unfair, it's a commentary on how good the player is and how protective certain parties are over him.

    I deal in objective facts and verifiable evidence where it concerns Daniel Thomas. Others deal in "to read some posts you'd think..." vagaries and ambiguous emotional defenses. They are afraid of facts and evidence.
     
    Clark Kent likes this.
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    If you watch OL play around the league, you'd realize that all people get beat. If that's your standard then every lineman in the league would have the worst possible rating. A more realistic evaluation recognizes that Martin compares pretty favorably to his peers.
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    One of the facts we are dealing with is a coaching staff that clearly believes he is at worst, second best on the team, and at best taking snaps away from Lamar Miller. People can complain about how he is as a pure runner, but there is a lot more to the position, and obviously the coaches like his skillset.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's very true. And I have never denied it. Nor have I cried foul when people bring it up. Nor do I expect them to cry foul when I bring up how the coaches felt the same way about Legedu Naanee to the point where Philbin once even joked that him praising a guy might be a kiss of death.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Lacy would have been a great pick, but I think Taylor will be as well. I do have some confidence in Gray, at least as a power back, so I have no problem with taking Taylor there.
     
  22. CD13

    CD13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it would be tough to draft another RB after Thomas and Miller picks, they need to see if those guys are going to pan out. RB's are relatively easy to find, some hopefully out of these 4 we have at least 1.
     
    rafael likes this.
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

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