Jordan says "wouldn't be a surprise" if he's not ready for opener

The way I took it was, he knows his body better then anyone. So, if wasn't able to play the opener, it wouldn't be a surprise to him because he would have known it in advance.

 

Aren't all first round picks, first round picks for a reason?

Last I checked our QB was a first rounder too. Go gettem Ryan!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

 

And such is the statement you'd have given a reporter? Would you have answered the question that way? Would any of you (please be unbiased if you answer)?

I realize Im the only that is pissing about this but I cant place it. It doesn't make sense to me.

Remember Bull Durham? In the bus Costner/Crash is teaching Robbins/Meat about interviews. Jordan couldve used a Crash mentor. Learn your f@$kin cliches, kid.

It is still a very stupid and scary (if honest) answer in my opinion. Im hopping coaches are putting him up to it, telling him to milk it. If you dont practice for Jordan, he may end up hurting you big.

 

Nobody but Jordan, Coyle, Philbin and the team Dr.'s can or should make this kind of decision. I'll wait, so we may have to see how well he does in a few weeks into the season, rather have him game 1 but better late than ruin his career or put off his recovery potentially longer.

Anyway I'm very interested to see what Olivier can do in his 2nd year, this could be worth finding out for a game or two. Aside from which I expect they plan (actually Philbin or/? Coyle alluded to this) to play Vernon on 1st & 2nd downs then bring in Jordan on third down passing situations strictly as a pass rushing specialist, at least until he gets healthy enough and beats out Vernon for the 3 down starting RDE job.

 

The problem with Jordan and Taylor's injuries is that is a part of a pattern with Jeff Ireland selecting "value" players over the more hyped players in drafts and in FA, and by "value", these players usually have injury histories that most teams would otherwise not gamble so much on. Ireland's view is if x player recovers from said injuries, then the pick will look like a risk worth taking. If the player never recovers, then Ireland usually goes for another "value" player at the same position to shore up the pick. We've seen our share of Justin Smileys and Jake Groves on this team. But there's also Jared Odrick, who had an injury history in college and came into practice his rookie year with a fractured fibula and then broke his foot and missed the entire season. He has since recovered from his injuries and has turned out to be a fine player.

The point here is that Irish has a pattern of gambling on players who are "value" picks and most of the time it hasn't worked out. Just look at how few players are on this roster from previous drafts and FA. That to me is one of the biggest concerns I have with Irish. And its not just the injury concerns, its also lack of evaluating talent. Forget the Parcells excuse. Forget his aggressive offseason this year. Look at how we have no players left from the 2008 draft. We no longer have our 1-3 round picks from 2009. The 2011 draft, the only player who is a lock is Pouncey. The jury is of course still out on the 2012 & 2013 drafts. But there is a pattern here folks. Of course no GM is perfect and every team misses on picks and sometimes entire drafts. But to be consistently wrong 80% of the time is a sign you're not very good at what you do.

 

Im MUCH more concerned with the fact that we lost Keller for the year than I am us losing Jordan for 2-3 games this year

 

value players, yes, that's his MO. I don't see the injured players thing.
If Jordan misses 3 or 4 games, it's not a big deal. Would people here still have drafted JT if you knew he would miss part of his first season?

 

Jordan does not fit that at all.

He was a consensus Top 5 pick and best defensive player on the board. He was going in the Top 5 whether we picked him or not.....with the injury.

I'm not sure you can find similarities between these last two drafts and the drafts before them to the point where you can say there's a pattern or tendency of any kind.

 

That's a ridiculous statement wrt Jordan...at third overall and trading a second to trade up to get him, he wasn't a value anything. I think if we hadn't drafted him, he would have dropped a few picks past third, but hey, we got a good deal from the Raiders so what the hell?
Personally, I'd have gone for Lane Johnson just because I think our O line is going to cost us games.

 

It was a value pick in that we traded lower valued draft picks than usual to move up to the #3 overall spot. It's not that I dislike the pick, I like Jordan's potential to be a "Jack/Rover" type of LB/De and it would be hard to pass up a player of his skill set, injured or not. But our medical staff should've evaluated him a little further because its obvious at this point that his shoulder is worse than previously thought and his recovery is going to take a lot longer than previously thought. Players get injured yes, but I hope to hell we didn't pass up the chance to shore up LT by buying up for a DE(despite us having a strong DL) who has the potential to be damaged goods. That would be a nightmare scenario, our OL now being setback if Martin fails and a top pick wasted on a DE who never got the chance to recover 100%. I hope I'm worried over nothing, but I've seen scenarios like this before with our previous regimes. And shoulder injuries are hard to recover from, ask Chad Pennington.

 

How do you know how hard our medical staff did or didn't evaluate Jordan? I guess the Eagles medical staff lackadaisically evaluated him too considering they were prepared to draft him at #4. Jordan represented the draft's TOP DEFENDER, and in today's game that can have a significantly greater impact than an offensive lineman. You realize Brady is in our division yes? You're reaching here, no offense.

Selecting the draft's top defender is never a wasted pick regardless of what the Dline looks like. What *WOULD'VE BEEN* a wasted pick would've been to draft a LT only to have Martin solidify the position. That's a waste of TWO valuable picks for nothing, our #12 pick AND #42, spent on overkill. Left tackles aren't as core of a position as a few years ago now that defensive coordinators are varying where they bring pressure from and aren't solely playing their top pass rusher on the QB's blind side. Sure it's an important position but you're talking about spending our first two picks on an offensive lineman as if we're talking about a franchise QB. That's a waste of an opportunity that drafting in the top 5 brings you when there are core impact players like Dion Jordan available. And for the record, we weren't absent of a need for improvement on the front 7 so your "despite us having a strong DL" comment is unfounded. We have one legitimate pass rusher, and he's getting up there in age. Misi will be a FA after this season, and we'll likely lose Starks. Not sure why you believe there's no need to be proactive. The drafting of Jordan was done with the future in mind, just as it should be, and if he ends up taking over for Misi he'll be a linebacker on base downs, which is obviously unrelated to defensive line.

Good thing we're not sitting Jordan till he's 33 and then converting him to a quarterback eh.

 

Takers of Gaines Adams, Courtney Brown or Andre Wadsworth would beg to differ. While it's pretty out there to call Jordan a "value pick", it's also pretty out there to ascribe actual value (as opposed to fictional draft value) based on a player's draft position. Dion Jordan being a consensus top 5 selection doesn't signify jack, as the reliability of this consensus has been proven to be completely arbitrary time and again.

 

You can say that about every top 5 pick.

 

Uggg. No, you don't "forget the Parcells excuse". The guy was in f***in charge dude. It was HIS team. He was the one paid the big bucks to turn the organization around. What don't you understand about that? I love how some people assume every mistake made while Parcells was running the show was a decision that Ireland would've made if he were in charge, and I love how people blindly ignore the fact that we've heavily changed schemes since Parcells's departure as if player personnel is universal in this league. I also love how you just assume Smiley & Grove were Ireland's decisions just b/c he was employed here at the time. That's as absurd as a woman getting gangbanged and then naming Billy the father without a paternity test.

The logic behind some fans is really just asinine WADR. Seriously, have a listen for yourself, I'll paraphrase it- "Yeah yeah, so what if Parcells was the one in charge of assembling the 2008 team including coaching staff. So what if Brian Gaine was hired in 2008 to supervise & direct the pro scouting department [IE: of NFL players], and so what if Gaine was subsequently promoted to overseeing ALL potential player acquisitions- both NFL and the draft. So what if we drastically changed offensive schemes & player blueprints since then. Yup, I don't care about job descriptions or any of that technical stuff b/c I've made up my mind that everything was Ireland's responsibility & Ireland's fault". That's ignorance at its finest.

Here, read this quote from Miami's official website about Gaine's job description [the same one he was brought to Miami do do] and then tell me that you know for a fact that Ireland warrants the blame for prior signings.

This still isn't enough to vilify Gaine for past failed acquisitions b/c we have no idea how much influence PARCELLS had in those decisions. Considering how highly thought of and sought after Gaine is in NFL circles I'm guessing Parcells was elbow deep in the cookie jar.

 

Certainly. That's why the old "he was a consensus top 5 selection" argument has always been a logical fallacy. Much the same as the old value pick argument, by the way.

 

wow, thank you Mr Literal. If you wanna go that silly route then Jason Smith says hello too. You can take your same literal philosophy and apply it to every position b/c obviously none are impervious to busting, so that means you're right back at my point- that taking the draft's top defender is never a wasted pick, and obviously I'm talking about at the time the pick is made, not in retrospect, duh.

Miami might as well give away its 1st round pick every year if you think drafting higher doesn't improve the chance of landing impact players. What IS important and what HAS been shown time and time again is that the draft's first handful of defenders off the board are frequently the ones who become the NFL's impact defenders. Von Miller, Revis, Aldon Smith, Watt, DeMarcus Ware, Justin Smith, JPP, Clay Matthews, Ngata, Pat Willis, Urlacher, Polamalu, Peppers, Suggs, Freeney, Patrick Peterson, Keuchly, Suh, Gerald McCoy, Earl Thomas, Chris Long, Mario Williams, Ed Reed, Wilfork, Derrick Johnson, Greenway, Cushing, Lawrence Timmons, Mayo, Tamba Hali, Kerrigan, Johnathan Joseph, Eric Berry, would you like me to keep going? So, in that sense, a DeMarcus Ware or a JJ Watt has more value than a Joe Thomas b/c in today's NFL an elite defender trumps an elite offensive lineman every day of the week. If a team wanted the consensus top defender in the 2013 draft they had to trade up to #3, just as they would've had to trade into the top 5 for Aldon Smith in 2011. Yeah that selection of Aldon has really come back to haunt San Fran lemme tell ya. You can't build a successful team by being scared to go after players you think could make an impact just b/c Adams, Courtney Brown, and Wadsworth busted previously. That's just plain retarded. Might as well never draft a QB #1 overall then.

 

I love how people assume I HATE Ireland. As I have stated before, I don't know Ireland personally and I certainly don't hate him as a person. I just don't think he is a very good NFL GM. I have felt this way for the past three years and I still feel this way.

I have also stated that if the Dolphins win at least nine games this season, Ireland should receive much of the credit for selecting the players on the roster. He should also be retained if the team wins at least nine games. I just don't think this team he has put together will be able to win more than eight games and it would not surprise me if they one again finish the season below 500.

Even though I feel this way, I still purchased four season tickets this season and my wife and I will be attending the Saints game in New Orleans. I want this team to be a success and I would have no trouble admitting I was wrong about Ireland if this team has a winning season. Right now though, I just don't have much confidence in Ireland's ability as the GM for the Dolphins. Sorry if that view doesn't agree with the Ireland supporters on this forum.

 

My pleasure, Mrs. Consensus

And your point is still moot, duh. Whether or not Dion Jordan (or any other player for that matter) was considered the draft's top defender by a bunch of armchair GMs is in no way, shape or form related to him being a successful or wasted selection. It's a perfectly arbitrary argument.

Wow, you really whacked that poor strawman. By the way, I've never said, argued or even implied that drafting impact players was a bad idea. I've argued that your definition of an impact player is based on a completely erroneous concept of mutual consent. The Dion Jordan selection was shrewd on many levels; him being considered the draft's best defensive player isn't among them.

 

Thank you again Mr Literal. Nobody blindly trades into the top 5 or top 10 just to have that draft slot. It's absurd what you're insinuating. Seriously, when was the last time a team traded into the top 5 months before the draft just to have a top 5 pick? Obviously teams care more about the player they're targeting than the actual draft slot. Washington didn't trade up for RG3 b/c they thought a top 5 pick would make them more successful; they traded up b/c they thought RG3 would make them more successful. High draft picks becoming greatly successful aren't a logical fallacy BTW. Perhaps you should take a run through Wikipedia to see how reduced in frequency the yellow highlighted names become after the first round. Again, it's not about the draft slot, it's about the player you're targeting, and obviously a player targeted in the 1st round has a better chance of becoming an impact player than one targeted in the 2nd round, and a significantly greater chance than in rounds 3-7.

 

So now we're calling NFL GMs and their paid scouts- "a bunch of armchair GM's"? You make it sound like it's some great mystery wrapped in an enigma for guys like Mayock, Kiper, McShay, and all the knowledgeable "armchair GMs" to narrow down as a collective in advance who the consensus top defenders are. Get real man.

Wrong, you've yet to argue the fact that impact defenders are most frequently the ones early off the board, which means there's obviously some merit to a defender being the consensus top dog. You're the one who keeps twisting it into straw nonsense. I honestly don't understand why you insist on this "literal" form of thinking.

 

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Would I be surprised?” Jordan asked rhetorically. “It’s my body so I know when I’m ready to go or when I’m not ready to go.

 

Ireland should be fired then if that happens. He moved up, wasted a 2nd round pick to do it, and now we have NOTHING to show for this years draft for the most part. The blind homers will decry this, but I don't care it just confirms what I thought about him for years now - he just isn't anything more than a scout, he's no GM. I hate you Bill Parcells more every day.

 

I hope he doesn't get shut down but whatta you gonna do, this defense in order to be great, needs this dude, his game will have so much impact and alllow other players freedom..

He's a nasty boy, plays with an aggression and attitude that some aren't quite familiar with yet..lets hope.

 

DJ seriously ? How do you know he's nasty ? Because of a few highlight videos we've seen from his college days ? Because I have yet to see him do anything in a Dolphin uniform. Ireland better hope this kid gets well and quick, or torches & pitchforks may be seen in front of the HQ in Davie, and this time with good reason. This was Irelands chance, his big offseason, and so far, it's been a big dud.

 

We haven't lost a meaningful game all year, pump your brakes.

 

How has it been a big dud so far? He added a lot of good players like Wallace, Keller, Gibson, Wheeler, Grimes and Ellerbe. He absolutely ripped the Raiders off to move up to the number 3 spot as well. Sure we've been unlucky with Keller getting hurt and Jamar Taylor and Dion Jordan struggling with injuries as well but I think Ireland did a good job this offseason.

The story is that Dion Jordan MIGHT not be ready to play the opener.....MIGHT. Jamar Taylor seems to now be healthy and ready to play as well, after cutting Marshall I have to believe that the coaching staff has liked what they have seen from Taylor which gave them the confidence to make that decision.

Also as much as I'm pretty sure we're all upset about Keller right now, major props to Ireland for not overspending on him. I know he offered him a multiyear deal but it sounds like he lowballed him which ended up benefitting us.

 

Ireland and Gaines were cut from the same cloth, as both were taught at the Parcells School of Outdated Football Player Evaluation. Ireland may not had full personnel authority when it came to picking players, but he did have some input. It's also never been fully understood what role Parcells had with this team and how much input he, Ireland and Gaines had and who was responsible for certain decisions. So it was easy for Ireland to hide behind that setup with no one knowing who was accountable for what. Ireland is now operating more independently, but is still showing a tendency to go after talented but red-flag laden players(injuries for the most part) to fill urgent needs and below average players to fill lesser holes. We only have one player (Javorsky, who may not make the roster this year) to show for FA pickups as recent as last year. Our recent drafts have produced very few hits and many, many misses. That says a lot about the talent evaluation of this team, its not just been under the Parcells/Gaines era, its also been more recent with Ireland's independent tenure.

 

I'm convinced that our move up in this draft was pure luck as this draft didn't have the usual skilled position impact players that most drafts feature, no real star QBs, RBs, WRs(save Tavon Austin), or defensive players that were worth top 5 considerations, which is why the top of the draft was OL heavy. So that #3 overall wasn't as valuable as it would if this draft were like last years with many prominent QBs and a good selection of skilled position players. This draft was overall pretty weak in the first round but stronger in mid-rounds, so trading down made sense for the Raiders more so than us trading up even by usual draft standards that we "ripped them off".