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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I believe Cleveland is as much of a candidate to surprise as we are. I've thought this well hefore their stellar camp/preseason.

    Brandon Weeden doesn't get the hype that Tannehill does, but his rookie numbers were very impressive with that team in Shurmur's offense - whom many scouts and fans agreed wasn't the best fit for Weeden.

    We catch a huge break by missing them with Gordon. If he can stay straight, he has all the makings to be a dynamic reciever in the league.

    I'll be at the game. I hope we pull it out. I'm next expecting us to roll them either. I'm not going to be surprisedif we lose either. They're a solid, young football team.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Weeden looked really good vs the Lions, fitting balls into tight windows etc.

    Really hope the offensive line clicks in the next preseason game b/c right now the Browns look like they are going better then we are atm.
     
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  3. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Listening to SiriusXM radio yesterday, Pat Kirwin mentioned that if the Browns were in the AFC East he believes they'd finish 2nd.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    In many ways last year, Brandon Weeden was definitely set up to fail. Two of his top three receivers were rookies, and the third (Greg Little) was a guy whose inconsistency re-defines the word. The ground game was also led by a rookie. To make matters worse, they ran an offense that was totally blind to what Brandon was as a quarterback coming out of Oklahoma State. The fact that he had the 2nd lowest percentage of shotgun plays in the entire league last year is just laughably silly when you consider the offense he cut his teeth in at Oklahoma State. And that wasn't even the biggest factor that made the offense incompatible with him. Then to start the season out, right away he's dropping back about 180 times over the course of 4 games, an average of about 44 times a game.

    It was ludicrous. Michael Lombardi absolutely hated Weeden as a prospect and sometimes I think some of his personnel decisions now are hanging Brandon out to dry a little bit. At the very least, I don't sense a desperation in their personnel planning to make Brandon Weeden work out at all costs as you would with a QB that was hand picked by the GM. However, even Michael Lombardi could not possibly have sabotaged Brandon Weeden more or more effectively in his first year than the Cleveland brain trust did in 2012.

    I think one reason people are so high on Andrew Luck is he had many of these same disadvantages, with the exception of the offense being suited to him, and even though he put together only a 75 passer rating to Weeden's 73 passer rating, he definitely excelled more and did more for the team in other ways. But then, let's be honest, Luck was the best QB prospect folks had seen in decades.
     
  5. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    Weeden has now been officially named the starter
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It will be an interesting Week 1.

    What I have to figure out is whether the loss of Dustin Keller is the same as the loss of Josh Gordon. The loss of Gordon was the main reason I felt comfortable picking the Dolphins, but I stated pretty clear that if Gordon were playing I might flip my pick to the home team. Does the loss of a Dustin Keller cancel out the loss of a Josh Gordon?

    I'm still likely picking the Dolphins, but it's not a confident pick anymore.
     
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  7. PhinsFan93

    PhinsFan93 New Member

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    I don't think its close. Keller's presence on the field can be replaced with Egnew/Sims improving or Clay moving to TE, Cleveland has no one that can replace Gordon's presence.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Do you understand though if a Cleveland fan would read the above statement and scoff aloud at it?
     
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  9. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Well CK....if he dropped the 'or'...maybe all 3 combined can match Keller's receptions.............yah ok....I couldn't buy that either.
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not trying to get anyone's goat, I'm just saying that to a Cleveland fan the concept of replacing Josh Gordon temporarily for a game or two with Travis Benjamin is no more scary than how PhinsFan93 feels about the concept of replacing Dustin Keller with Clay, Egnew and Sims.

    Truthfully, Travis Benjamin might be closer to what Josh Gordon was giving them (a pure deep threat) than Clay, Egnew or Sims are to what Dustin Keller was giving us. Or at least, I could see the argument. I still wasn't convinced that Keller was going to be a premier player for us.
     
  11. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Have you met any Cleveland fans? They're still too busy arguing about Colt McCoy to notice.
     
  12. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    that trade fell through because of a failed physical by Moffitt, but strange enough he is now traded to the broncos

     
  13. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Good point, Cleveland fans should scoff at that. Kinda like a Dolphin fan would scoff if they saw Weeden's name in the same sentence as Andrew Luck's.

    Cleveland and Indy are polar opposites in a way. The Browns have an OL that does a tremendous job in pass pro and QB that sucks under pressure. Indy has an OL that sucks in pass pro and a QB that does a tremendous job dealing with pressure.

    It still comes down to can Weeden carry the offense w/o a consistent run game. I don't think he can.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They just might be more desperate than we are at guard...our Dline should eat them.
     
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  15. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    The line in the game with Miami a -1 pick and paying -110 with Cleveland +1 hasn't changed in the past 3 months and neither injury had effect on the betting line. I was watching the NE Tampa game and NE played at such a quick pace, the Bucs were huffing wind. Brady was 11 of 12 for 110 yds and a TD to Amendola. He threaded the TD into double coverage. Many of the throws he makes are to receivers that are not open. The missed pass was when he was slightly rushed. That reiterates what we always knew, apply the slightest pressure and Brady is not the same QB. If you don't get in his face he'll all but catch the ball for the receivers. Hope the Phins are in better shape than Sparano had them in that MNF game against the Pats.
     
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  16. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agreed... and damn, I'm happy that Sean Smith is no longer a Dolphin. Hated his excuses for every fail. That game his excuses were that Soliai had recommended a 5 hour energy prior to the game and the idiot drank 2 and got cramps and couldn't run. #bigbaby
     
  17. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    so has anyone seen the browns vs indy ?, looks like they crashed down to earth a little bit
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Indy/Cleveland game. It was an ugly game. Indy was up 17-3 when the starters for both sides were taken out in the mid third quarter. Cleveland got a ton of pressure on Luck. He was running for his life early and mainly throwing it away or into the ground. Cleveland's offense also struggled. They relied on Richardson early, who had a few nice runs, but were never able to sustain a drive. Weedon hit a few deep outs, but again it wasn't consistent enough. Both teams had TOs. Indy didn't start to move the ball until Luck escaped for several runs that moved the chains. That took the juice out of Cleveland's pass rush a bit. On offense Cleveland could make a few plays but were just not able to get any big plays. It was an offensive grind, much like Miami the last few years or during the Wanny years. As I said it was an ugly game and after early body blows were exchanged Indy pulled ahead just b/c they had a couple of better play makers in Luck and Hilton.

    I think that's what we can expect to see when Miami plays Cleveland. They will try to establish Richardson and he may even have some early success as he's a really good back. But he's not really a break away threat. Unless they get some big plays in the form of a TO or some blown coverage TD they shouldn't be able to drive all the way down the field on our D. The loss of Gordon and Lewis really hurts them. Our offense may struggle early against their pressure. It's pretty relentless. But they do leave some run lanes open. I could see Miller or RT or even Thomas on a screen breaking away for a couple of key conversions or even a long TD. They also may be susceptible at S to Wallace, but their pressure may be too good to expect time to throw it deep unless it's a broken play or moving pocket situation. I just think the odds of Miami getting the necessary big plays as more likely as we have more weapons.
     
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  19. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I'm not scared of Cleveland or the Colts, as a fan. As a matter of fact, I think we will be sitting at 2-0 in a few weeks. For one, our D is far superior to either the Browns or Colts, and Tannehill is going to light them up! Miller in a full game will be a load as well.

    The Keller loss is no doubt significant, but not irreplaceable. Gibson should get his catches, along with Miller, Clay, Egnew, and even Lane.
     
  20. Oboy

    Oboy Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Wow, LOVE your optimism. I do agree our D is much better than both of those and should create havoc. However, I am not ready to say our offense will light up any NFL Defense yet. I HOPE they do, but they need to show me more and more consistently for me to say they will light up anyone.
     
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  21. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we'll light up either team either. But I do believe that the odds favor us against Cleveland for the reasons expressed in post #138. Against Indy, I think we have the better D and that our offense is at least even. The x-factor is Luck. He is incredible at escaping pressure and making plays in situations where he should be dead. But he also has a tendency to throw more WTF passes and risky passes. There's an element of boom or bust there. I'm not saying that we'll definitely be 2-0, but I do feel that the odds of us winning in each game is greater than the odds of us losing in each game.

    The early game that's interesting to me is that NO game. Their offense is great, but their D may be equally poor. Brees really struggled against Houston's pressure. I thought Houston looked like the better team when both team's #1s were in. Likewise, I felt Miami looked like the better team against Houston's #1s. I doubt we'll learn much of anything about what to expect in that game from our 4th preseason game.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Do you think that's partly why we let Sean Smith walk and brought in players more capable of playing off, because of how our run D can allow us to play a bend-but-not-break style in the hopes of increasing takeaways?
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I think the plan was to get a ton of pass pressure and then have guys playing off man behind it. I think that's why we traded up for Jordan and brought in a couple of LBs that excel at blitzing. IMO off-man or zone puts the DB in the best position to jump a route or notice a tipped/bad pass. If you want to increase how many TOs your D produces, that is a logical strategy.
     
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  24. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    4/6 103 yards 1 TD....if thats a struggle, i wanna see him perform well...lol, i saw that game too, i know it was a short pass that was taken to the house because of bad tackling, but i still wouldn't call it a struggle
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Luck is great, but he also had a pick and gave up a couple of sacks in that first half. His numbers for the game ended up at 16/24 164 yds 2 TDs 1 INT. He played pretty similar to what RT did for us but was sacked more often, had a couple more of those high and wide throws and had a pick. He also had the benefit of a decent run game and pretty good STs play. A long return and the TO gave him a short field.
     
  26. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    but thats brees numbers....since you mentioned he struggled against houston's pressure...lol
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Jordan Cameron didn't practice today. Injured groin I think. Not good for them.
     
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  28. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I thought you meant Luck. But I stand by that assessment of Brees' game. He had three drives in the game. He took one sack and went three and out on one and might have gone six and out on the other. The first two drives ended when pressure forced Brees to throw bad passes. The scoring drive was made up of one run and two short passes that broke for 70 of his 100 yards.
     
  29. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    he also can't stay healty..well good for us, but at this point i would still expect him to play against us
     
  30. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    yeah i know, i saw the game, that TD to thomas was more a product of bad tackling than anything else, i'm so excited for that monday night game, a true test
     
  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Haven't read through the whole thread. But this game should be a good one. The battle for which QB improved his game the most over the offseason - Weeden or Tannehill? They've both looked much improved in the preseason.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If only the Dolphins had one of their Bills games scheduled early in the season. Undrafted free agent Jeff Tuel is starting at QB for them against the Patriots. And then the very next week the Patriots play the Jets who are still very much in "dumpster fire" mode.

    Talk about making it easy on the Patsies.

    By the time we play the Bills, I am positive E.J. Manuel will be on the field and I really don't think he's going to be as easy to handle as most assume. Not that we should lose, I'm just saying that a combination of he and Spiller might be more difficult than we think.

    The Jets should start out the year in complete disaster. But those teams that start out that way usually improve in the back half, even if only modestly. Both our games against them come in that back half. Patriots play both of their games against the Jets in the front half.

    Patriots luck out on the schedule. As uuuussge.
     
  33. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    Watched most of the first half... Lucks ability to move in the pocket is ridiculous. Clevelands offense definitely looked like it came back down to earth though.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
     
  34. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Not sure if this has already been discussed - but I have to imagine the Browns missing Mingo for week 1 is a much bigger blow than the Phins missing Dion Jordan.

    Mostly because Joe Thomas was going to eat whoever is on his side, while Jonathon Martin was going to set the table for them.
     
  35. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I work with a Brownies fan. This is the first time he's ever talked smack about us squaring off. When we played them in 2011, all he said before the game was that we were in for an easy win. Even after the loss (we lost 17-16), he didn't really ride me. That was the game where McCoy threw a 14-yard touchdown pass to Mohamed Massaquoi with 43 seconds left for the last minute win.

    My point being, I'm thinking the confidence in their fanbase may be on the rise. We really need that first game, and for many reasons. But, as a confidence builder, it is a HUGE game.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I wish we had the Bills and Jets early as well.
     
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  37. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    As it should be. That is clearly an improved team. I just don't think their odds against us are great.
     
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  38. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Brees was sacked twice and pressured a couple more times. That's not bad for a whole game but when it comes on less than 10 pass attempts against a Texans defense playing without Watt or Antonio Smith it's worth a mention IMO.
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    :lol: I was just telling a friend of mine how lucky the Pats were to have the Bills and Jets (3 times in the first 7 weeks) early in the year.
     
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  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Mingo seems unlikely to play Week 1, Sheard and Owens skipped the Colts game. Not good for them either.
     
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