Dolphins Are Planning to Use Tannehill in Read Option

Agreed. RG3 is on another level athletically, but CKap and RT are pretty close and on the same level above Wilson. Wilson's main strength is his decision making (which is top notch), but athletically he's a notch below.

 

There is nothing about the read option that makes it SO special, except the personel of the teams that run it. Fact.

Wilson/Lynch RGIII/Morris Kaepernick/Gore and three incredibly solid O-lines.

Washington will move away from it this season to protect RGIII - is there offense going to suddenly dive because they don't have the unstoppable read option?? @%@! NO.

A great play-action (which Tannehill seems to have) will do more to disrupt the entire defense then the read option.

And stop saying Tannehill is as athletic or as fast as Wilson or Kaepernick - it is untrue.

RT will thrive in a pro-set getting him killed in a read option is not high on my list of wants.

The read option will die in the NFL.

 

The thing about adding the run threat from the QB is that it also makes the D more likely to stick with simple zone coverage. They avoid man coverage where the defenders turn their back to the QB. The simpler reads for the QB has a huge impact on the ease of playing QB and making faster/better decisions. The read option causes the same hesitation in the defense that the play action does but also causes simpler reads. Additionally, unlike play action, the read option also helps the run game significantly by adding a blocking/numbers advantage. The read option helps both the run game and the pass game. Saying the play action does more to disrupt the defense is simply not accurate. That's why the read option will endure. The pistol formation in general will be as long lasting as the shotgun has proven to be.

RT did not participate at the combine or run the full range of drills at his pro day due to injury, but he is absolutely in the same speed range as Wilson and CKap. RT ran anywhere from a 4.59 - 4.62 40 depending on which timing you believe. Wilson ran a 4.55 despite being shorter and lighter than RT. CKap ran a 4.53. All three players ran very fast 40s and all were easily faster than the average DE. RT is a better athlete than Wilson with similar speed but greater size and strength and he's close to CKap with RT being a slight bit slower and lighter.

 

that's the hope, against certain teams, in certain situations if you have it in your repertoire, if you have a superior athlete mental/physical that can execute it, your making a great defensive player be great at something else besides what made him great..

You know Eric Walden made a career for himself rushing the passer, but when Kaepernik took him out of his element he became a different player, and by different I mean not good..

 

What I imagine is, are you ready Rafs ??, I'm breaking out "the ole man", "the ole river"

Multidimensionaloffensivetheory..

I used to talk about wanting to run a hybrid system before all the hype and to have the ability to switch schemes one play after the other, we know we have a high ceiling from the pocket, what if we can have the same from the zone read, to operate and execute from two completely different schematic angles seems to have a better chance of winning the game than operating exclusively from the pocket..

But therein lyes the debate.

 

Russell Wilson stated that they really didnt do anything fancy with their read option stuff, they simply did it because it allows him to gain an advantage thru using more of his own personal talents.

 

This is a fascinating conclusion...

As someone who believes in my own abilities to identify sport specific athleticism, position specific athleticism, and from what I've seen from Ryan escaping the pocket, there's no part of me that believes that, however, there is something from a dexterity angle (the switch in college from receiver to Qb) that throws me off when coming to my own conclusion, this is why I'm a proponent of this formation, I feel like there is a delay in Ryan's anticipation of pressure, thus making him look lethargic when trying to escape, so my theory is, if I take that small weakness that I see and flip it into a more attacking style where anticipation of rush doesn't matter, we might see another version of his athleticism become engaged..

 

That's a rather questionable definition of a fact. The read option is "special" relative to other typical NFL runs because it creates a blocking advantage. Being able to eliminate a defender without blocking isn't a small deal.

You're also ignoring what read option stuff does to a defense. Teams are less likely to blitz- especially with a lack of familiarity, and it's going to add an additional element to freeze defenses that regular play action does not.

 

WADR, that's because your definition of athleticism is your own. You've decided that athleticism = pocket awareness and escapibility. It was the source of your and my communication issues about Tannehill.

I think what a lot of us are saying is based more on the traditional definition of athleticism.

 

Well, so your saying that once Ryan catches up to the mental side of the game, his escapability prowess will look to be on par with Wilson and Kaepernik? I say that because I know that you have stated that you thought that Tannehill didn't look as good escaping because of his skillset players, his oline, and his inexperience?

I don't literally define athleticism as to how one escapes the pocket, but I think it plays a role, I also think it involves coordination and fluidity..

You want me to believe that Wilson Kaepernik and Tannehill are not separated by much when it comes to the ability of evading a rush, I'm saying at this point there is, a larger one then you seem to think, what I have left room for, is realizing that once he does find the speed of the game not to be to much, that gap will reduce..

 

And if you think he is on par with those guys athletically, yet it doesn't translate into better pocket escapability then what good is it in this case.?... Of course escapability is correlated with athleticism, it requires quick movements from all angles, balance and coordination, footwork.N..S..E..W.

 

Also on play action the QB often times turns his back on the defense making it more difficult for him to read the defense when he turns back. Whereas on a read-option the QB is constantly facing the D and watching the play develop.

 

Really good insight, and you may very well be right on target. I was actually thinking why someone who has speed and athleticism like Tannehill, often appears "lethargic," or not mobile. This simple quick moment of indecision or "happy feet," when he gets flustered does make him appear uncomfortable on the move.

I am also wondering if being restricted to hold out in the pocket causes this delay, as he wants to move but stops himself, and in that moment almost freezes. If he is allowed this year to take off when he sees the opening, it may make a huge difference (as you point out) in his quickness.

 

By the way, I want to slap people who argue debatable opinions and declare that they are fact.



And that is a fact.

 

While I do agree about his mechanics, I think his main strength is his decision making. I think he's one of those that makes the game look easy. He's not the biggest or the fastest. He doesn't have the arm of a CKap or RT, but he looks like nothing surprises him. He plays like a ten year vet.

 

I love having that versatility on offense where you can decide to bludgeon a team with the run or surgically dissect them with the pass. Right now I think we are getting closer to that with the pass. It's a shame about Keller b/c he would have made that easier. But I don't think we're with the run unless we employ some read option to help set the run up.

And yes, I am so ready to getting back to watching some football and seeing some of these players/plans develop.

 

I'm trying to see some other points of view on this subject, like how green this dude is from the pocket considering he never operated there until his junior year of college, I'm also encouraged that He realized he needed to get in better condition this year, I have noticed good improvements on his body so I think that will help with his quickness, however, the art of escapability comes from the instinct, the peripheral vision, combined with the athletic ability of the player..I don't believe what we've seen can improve to a degree of Kap, Luck, Wilson, Bree's, Berger or Rogers , but I'll take one more level up than what we've seen, and I do think he can do that with more experience.

 

Yeah we got a ways to go in the run game, hopefully that read option was what we were doing in the bubble, cause I think we're gonna need it..Be nice to see Tannehill have four hundred yards rushing with 5 tds on the ground, I think we're gonna need him inside the ten doing some things with his feet as well if we want to accomplish some efficiency.

 

Hate to ssy it, but he should Tom Brady... Textbook mechanics. They're perfect.

 

See, you're proving my point about how you define athleticism vs. everyone else's definition of athleticism.

To "escape" you need the timer in your head AND you need the physical tools (speed, agility, strength, elusiveness, etc.). The timer is not part of being athletic. The physical tools are the parts that make up the athleticism. Tannehill's timer is lacking. I think the timer was a problem due to experience and the fact that he had no options to make a play between his knee and the lack of receivers. But the physical tools (the actual things that qualify as everyone else knows athleticism) are there in spades. Think about it. What kind of athlete would you need to be, to be an excellent WR and a Top Ranked QB? And not just that, but think about the athleticism it takes to throw the ball harder than many other QBs and already be one of the best in the league...at throwing on the run. That is an athlete Deej. Hell, that's ALMOST Dion Jordan level of freakish athleticism.

There's no doubt in my mind, has Tannehill gets a better feel (timer) for the pass rush and the handcuffs of injury (and the staff) come off, Ryan will make you ruin sock after sock come game day.

 

I hope we dont Run it more then 3-4 times a game. Just enough to make Martin's job easier but not enough to significantly increase the chance of injury to Ryan.

 

I realize that the timer is not part of athleticism, that's mental, so I get where are lines are being crossed..

So you think once that mental comes together the athletic part of the equation will drastically improve because the dexterity it takes to play two positions at a division one school in a hella conference will equate to the same kind of athletic ability required in being a Qb playmaker?

I thinks it's important to keep perspective on what level I'm comparing him to, Like I said I think it's a fascinating debate, my eyes tell me the quickness and lateral agility isn't good enough to be a playmaker on the level of the aforementioned but I'll keep an open mind, and be happy with improvement in that dept.

 

I remember when Testeverde came into the league. He was a phenomenal athlete. In college he looked like a man among boys. On one play he'd throw off a LB with one arm then out run a CB to the edge before firing a 40 yard pass on a rope. However, when he got to the NFL you saw none of that. The more complex NFL defenses made him think first and frankly thinking wasn't his strongest attribute. Although eventually even he played like an experienced vet. He seemed to be able to anticipate defenses and he looked smooth in the pocket. That took about 10 years or so though so his athletic advantage had largely faded by then. I'm banking on RT having a steeper (faster) learning curve.