1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dave Hyde and Omar Kelly question Philbin's leadership and tactics

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Jared Odrick is an outstanding pass rushing DT always has been, he can hold his own in that spot vs the run aswell. Our DL is as deep with capable players as any in the league.

    Also Jake Long was hobbling along and didnt appear to play all that well in week one. Now using that $$ to keep Reggie?? Time will tell I suppose.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  2. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

    555
    141
    0
    Aug 5, 2013
    Bro - Stop it. Your telling me Starks production fell when we went to a 3-4 and I'm telling you any DL production will fall when shifting from a 4-3 to a 3-4. The primary role of a DL changes in the 3-4 and the Backers become your attack players.
     
  3. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    That decision on Bush is the only one I thought was questionable. Although I believe he would have been similarly ineffective against Cleveland. I just worry that if our run game struggles all year and we have to go to more of a short pass offense, that Bush would be more of a threat than Miller in that role.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Wow, more obvious straw man stuff from you. How surprising. :001_rolleyes: Even worse is you thinking you "got me" with this out-of-context retort when all it does it make you seem like an idiot.
    Apparently your selective reading passed right over the part where I mentioned the dline being the strength of the team. So not only do you need history lessons but apparently you also need math lessons considering your difficulty in adding 2+2 considering Starks is a member of that Dline. Do we need Captain Obvious's assistance to help you connect the dots here?
     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    No, I never said that. You desperately need to fix your reading comprehension......... Bro.
     
  6. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

    555
    141
    0
    Aug 5, 2013
    Is that what that does... You calling me an idiot is indeed comical to me. You have the football sense of a cheerleader. :wink2:
     
  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Angry Todd make Fin-O giggle.

    :chuckle:
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Are you incapable of arguing posts on actual merit rather than this repetitive straw man stuff? There's two paragraphs worth of stuff yet you look for one statement to utilize out of context. Wow, brilliant. You should sign up for your 5th grade debate team. I'm sure you'd easily secure a key role as an alternate.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  9. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

    555
    141
    0
    Aug 5, 2013
    You know what they say in 5th grade debate class....the debater that must resort to insults to clarify himself, is the beaten man.

    I accept your resignation. :tongue2:
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Chillax.
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    At least this cheerleader knows we played a 3-4 in 2010.
     
  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I'm sure you remember that like it was yesterday.

































    ...... since it was yesterday.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  13. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    :up:
     
  14. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

    555
    141
    0
    Aug 5, 2013
    Now who is the one with the reading comprehension problems? Because I certainly don't recall ever making the claim we played a 4-3 in 2010.

    Simply that Starks was a pro-bowler that season, when you claimed, falsely that his production fell off. (Where you listed the numbers).

    Which I logically and correctly informed you, that the production of a 4-3 DT will fall off when going to a 3-4 NT.

    Then you couldn't wait to play "Look at how smart I am" and emphatically tell me what a moron I was for forgetting Starks played primarly in the DE position and Sols at NT that season. (Although Starks did play some NT that season)

    Which I reminded you has no bearing on the fact that a 3-4 Lineman will lose production to a 4-3 lineman...and that Starks was a pro-bowler in 2010, after you telling us all that he had a horrible year in 2010.

    Then you said fan voting means squat - Which I again had to remind you that the fans can't put Starks into the pro-bowl, only his peers or the coaches can...

    Then you started to get emotional and your eyes got all blood shot and you started hurling insults...

    At this point - I started pressing buttons, like a 5th grader....notice the pun

    But NO-WHERE did I ever say we played a 4-3 in 2010. :tongue2:
     
  15. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

    4,736
    304
    0
    Jun 16, 2011
    the poor house
    then how is it they still have jobs ? hell I bet Mercury Morris could write something better then these alleged clowns .

    this is reason number 5 why we need more ex players in the media be it the paper or tv.
     
  16. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Every player wants a long term contract. Why should Starks and Soliai be any different?

    This mumbo jumbo won't change how they perform on the field. That's all that matters.
     
    Rocky Raccoon likes this.
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,580
    17,702
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Jupiter, Fl.
    So, two guys who are actually in a room with Philbin a couple of times a week, and see close up how the players react to him(and probably hear more off the record) have some doubts about his leadership skills. A guy with no prior head coaching experience and not a bunch of personality? Why is this controversial?

    I have absolutely no idea if the guy can lead.

    But one thing I do believe, based on the video I've seen, Don Shula at 83 and in a wheelchair STILL has more presence than Philbin. Do you need presence to lead the modern NFL player? We shall see...
     
  18. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,580
    17,702
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Jupiter, Fl.
    I kinda assumed his agent was the Tony Paige. If so, he does know a bit about football. If not, carry on....
     
  19. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    haven't read the whole thread... just getting started here... but reading this from a writer who I respect in Barry Jackson, yet even he is implying something that isn't there...

    Here's the deal, lets get some facts out on the table. The Dolphins, once July 15th had passed (the deadline for franchise tag players to sign a new contract), cannot extend Randy Starks until the offseason. PERIOD! There will be no offer coming from them DURING this season. Because there is no reason to offer Starks anything (well except more playing time). It's like me going to make an offer to buy a house that not only isn't for sale, but hasn't even been built yet! What's the point of that? Jesus Mary and Joseph. So much misinformation in these articles it's unbelievable.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    You continue to say this repeatedly after I mentioned Starks' production dipping in 2010.

    Let's take a baby steps approach:
    In 2008 he was a 3-4 DE.
    In 2009 he was a 3-4 DE.
    In 2010 he was a 3-4 DE for all but a couple games.
    The last time he was a 4-3 DT was in Tennessee in 2007.
    So allllll of your comments about him going from 4-3 DT to 3-4 NT are irrelevant. Your argument is based on a fallacy. Go back and re-read my initial posts [which you've ineffectively attempted to morph into something else] and see where you went wrong.

    *further comments in blue above*

    your entire argument is based around this insinuation, or some similar variation of it. Here, listen to yourself defending Starks' 2010 season after I mentioned it was a down year:

    You're the one who brought up the 4-3 DT stuff. The only way your comment would be relevant is if we were either a 4-3 in 2009 or switched to a 4-3 in 2010.
     
  21. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    What are the first 4 reasons?
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    1. Just because.
    2. Players know stuff and things.
    3. Pickles.
    4. dgusfhkldjshfkls
     
  23. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

    2,155
    837
    0
    Aug 10, 2012
    I hate pickles unless it is on a hamburger with mustard.
    I'm cooking on the little mac right now.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Calculator mailbox.
     
  25. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    I think the writers are upset that Jim Irsay is not the Dolphins owner...I mean Irsay uses Twitter to talk to give ultimatums to his team:

     
  26. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Dude is a drunk idiot with too much cash on his hands.

    Attention whore. Paul, you guys should go bowling.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    "The Fish". :pity:
     
  28. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Something else from Hyde's article:

    You'd think from reading this that Wallace was standing in his locker room after the game, with reporters all around, repeating himself like Dustin Hoffman in Rainman. "ask coach.... ask coach... yeah... ask coach... yeah,.... you gotta ask coach... game plan? ask coach... yeah.... Gotta watch Wapner at 5"...

    Cmon man. That's not what happened. Wallace didn't want to speak to the media after the game. He wasn't even in the locker room when the pseudo interview took place... it was more Armando and another writer, chasing after him like children chase after an ice cream truck... just begging him for an answer.. anything to write about... ANYTHING! Apparently winning the season opener by 13 to an opponent on the road that was favored and picked my many "experts" to win the game, after a stifling defense produced multiple turnovers (I don't recall last year us forcing as many turnovers as we did in a single game) and harassed Weeden all game long, after Ryan Tannehill got his offensive **** together for 17 points in the 2nd half against a better than average defense.. apparently all of that wasn't enough material for them to write... a positive article, every day this week? every other day? twice? some of them once??
     
    GMJohnson, MrClean and ToddPhin like this.
  29. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    bowling? eff that... we attention whores are upset with bowling because there are too many lanes at a bowling alley. We'd get lost in the shuffle.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I wonder who would do a better job of shedding the Dolphins and its players in a negative light, Boston beat writers or ones from our own backyard?
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Odrick played 125 more snaps in 2012 than Starks did. 78 more pass rush snaps. That would have something to do with the difference in total pressures. Also in the nickel Odrick moved inside. Unfortunately, PFF does not give us his pressures when lined up at DT separate from his pressures when lined up at DE. Granted, Odrick pass rushing from the outside in the base defense would have a negative impact on his ratio of pressures to pass rush snaps. Had Starks been the one doing that, it would have negatively affected him too. Other than someone going back and watching every snap last year and keeping track, I don't know how we can find out.
     
    MikeHoncho and ToddPhin like this.
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It is kind an unusual coincidence that Starks, Soliai and Odrick all have their birthdays in December.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    IMO the other thing to consider is Odrick is arguably better vs the run than Starks. I think that can be factored in considering we're now weaker vs the run at RDE than we were last year. So in that regard it might be wise for Odrick to get the starting nod against offenses that might be inclined to open up with the running game like Cleveland with Trent Richardson.

    I just looked it up. Miami's defense saw 173 pass attempts on 1st Down, so I think it's safe to assume Odrick was at RDE for the majority of those. On 2nd Down they saw 171, with 61 coming on 2nd & 7 or less which seems more suited for base defense personnel. So of the 504 total pass attempts they faced I'm guessing Odrick spent at least half of those at right end where he's less successful from what I recall.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I do not agree that Odrick is better. The only time in the past when we could compare them on a even playing field was 2011, when they both played DE in the 3-4 and Starks was graded a 6.5 in run defense and Odrick was graded a -0.5. Also in the very small sample size of the Browns game, PFF graded Starks higher than either Soliai or Odrick vs the run, 1.4, 1.3, and -0.7 respectively.
    IMO, none of them are a liability in run defense so that who starts would depend on the opposing team's running attack.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I thought Starks was a negative run grade through the second half of last year.

    Per PFF 2012:
    It probably didn't help that he lost his mother last year but unfortunately his second half of the season's production still has to be accounted for until proven otherwise IMO.
     
  36. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    end thread/
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  37. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Sup Todd? Looks like it's gonna be Tigers vs Noles for the ACC again this year. Have your popcorn ready...

    PFF is nice for snap counts and a few other things, their business model is genius, but I'd rather wipe my *** with their player ratings than read em and take em seriously.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    no u

    In general I agree with you about this, and I even take the aforementioned PFF quote with a grain of salt, but I think there has to be at least a modicum of truth to Starks having a weaker second half of the season when PFF has him as their lowest graded DT during that span, not 30th, not 40th, but lowest. Look at our run D. Through the first half of the season, in dominating fashion, we were tops in the NFL in both YPG and YPC (3.5 IIRC). By year's end we finished 13th in YPG and 7th in YPC (4.0). If PFF had Starks as their 2nd highest graded DT at the midway point but the lowest during the second half, my first inclination is to believe there could be a correlation between Starks' low second half grade and our drop off against the run.

    If you go by the stats alone he had 18 tkl, 3.5 sacks, 4 TFL, 4 PD, and 1 INT through the first half..... but just 9 tkl, 1 sack, 1 TFL, 0 PD the second half. The disparity is understandable considering the loss of his mother, but unfortunately the stats are still what they are and this is still a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league, and during the second half of last season I felt Odrick outperformed Starks, enough so to where it shouldn't be viewed outrageously that Jared got the starting nod against Cleveland.
     
  39. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

    9,767
    3,436
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    North of the Border
    Didn't even click the links.....
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I was referring to 2011, when they played the same position. I thought that was more likely to be a fair comparison.
     

Share This Page