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Dave Wannstedt: Not As Bad As You Think

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vengeful Odin, Jun 24, 2008.

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  1. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Overview
    Ask a Miami fan which coach caused the most harm in team history, and you’re likely to hear one name - Dave Wannstedt. I’ve heard the arguments. “He was a mediocre at best coach.” “He couldn’t win in the playoffs. “His teams were middle of the road.” Personally, I think Dave gets a bad rap. Sure he had a mustache. But that doesn’t make him evil. When looking back through the prism of history, I’d like to suggest that Dave Wannstedt is not as bad as you think.

    Fact 1: A Winner In Miami
    Wannstedt is often associated with mediocrity, but truth be told he actually compiled 42 wins and 31 losses while coach of the Dolphins. This translates to a .575 winning percentage, which in actually is pretty good. In fact, that percentage is actually the highest of any coach in Miami history not named Shula. This includes everyone - George Wilson, Jimmy Johnson, Jim Bates, Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, and even rookie coach Tony Sparano.

    Wannstedt also lead his teams to the playoffs in 2 out of 4 and a half years – and his other teams probably should have been in the playoffs the other years, with records of 9-7 and 10-6. I would make the suggestion that, given the current state of our franchise, making the playoffs 50% of the time is something we as fans would take in a heartbeat. The fact that the teams during this time were consistently good is even more impressive, as we have repeatedly seen teams yo-yo in terms of wins and losses year in and year out.

    Fact 2: Finally, A Rushing Game!
    Under Wannstedt, the rushing game flourished. In all full seasons coached by Wannstedt, Dolphin runners approached/eclipsed 1000 yards, with the lone exception being 2001, where Lamar Smith narrowly missed hitting the mark. Furthermore, Wannstedt starters Lamar Smith and Ricky Williams are responsible for 3 of the top 4 single-season rushing totals in Dolphins history.

    Dolphin Rushers under Dave
    • 2000: Lamar Smith, 1139 yards
    • 2001: Lamar Smith, 968 yards
    • 2002: Ricky Williams: 1853 yards
    • 2003: Ricky Williams: 1372 yards

    Only during the glory days of the 1970s, with runners Kiick, Moris, and Csonka in the backfield, did we see this kind of running back production, and we have not seen it since. Prior to Wannstedt, only Karim Abdul-Jabbar had recently been near 1000 yards, and that was a full 4 years earlier, in 1996. Similarly, since Wannstedt’s departure, we have only seen one runner go over 1000 yards in the last four years – and that was Ronnie Brown in 2006.

    Fact 3: A Defensive Dynasty
    It wasn’t just the rushing offense that sparked under Wannstedt’s tenure. There was a defensive revolution as well. In a resurgence not seen since the “No Names” of the 1970s, defensive toughness returned to the Miami Dolphins. With Dave at the helm, Dolphin teams finished in the top 5 in one of two key defensive categories – yards allowed and points allowed – in every full season Wannstedt coached. The Dolphins finished in the top 10 in both categories – yards and points – in every season except 2001, where they just missed the top 10 in points allowed, finishing 11th.

    Individual success during his tenure can be a bit more challenging to quantify, but Miami did send a total of 15 players to the Pro Bowl during Wannstedt’s tenure, including more than half of the defensive starters in 2002. Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Patrick Surtain, Sam Madison, and Brock Marrion all received multiple Pro Bowl invites while Wannstedt was coach.

    Dolphin Defensive Pro Bowlers Under Dave
    • 2000: 3 Total (Taylor, Madison, Marion)
    • 2001: 2 Total (Thomas, Madison)
    • 2002: 6 Total (Bowens, Taylor, Thomas, Surtain, Madison, Marion)
    • 2003: 4 Total (Ogunleye, Thomas, Surtain, Marion)

    Fact 4: Better Than Advertised Personnel Decisions
    I’m not crazy enough to suggest that Wannstedt’s drafts were perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. He did make a number of questionable decisions, particularly with trades and talent evaluation. While his drafts produced a number of stinkers (Eddie Moore, Jamar Fletcher, Seth McKinney, etc.), draft a number of folks were drafted that were able to step in and make contributions quickly. For a team on the cusp of greatness, it made sense to go after players that would help fit a need, as opposed to an all-out rebuilding mode, which is what we currently face.

    Decent Draft Picks Under Dave
    • 2000: Todd Wade
    • 2001: Chris Chambers
    • 2002: Randy McMichael
    • 2003: Yeremiah Bell
    • 2004: Vernon Carey

    Wade was a fairly decent lineman for us, and Chambers, McMicheal, and Carey were solid starters for us for a number of years. Bell has been a revelation when healthy. The AJ Feeley trade may have backfired, but the Ricky Williams trade was an extremely smart move. Ricky’s personal decisions and flakiness cannot be blamed on Wannstedt – there was no way to foreshadow the dreadlocked one’s decision to retire before the 2004 season. Personally, I tend to believe that Wannstedt takes an unfair amount of blame for personnel decisions during his tenure, as the majority of these moves were co authored by Rick Spielman.

    Fact 5: In the Shadow of History
    62-7. And with that score, two eras ended. Dan Marino, arguably the greatest QB of all-time, and Jimmy Johnson, Dolphins coach, both chose to walk away from the game after being trounced by the Jaguars. In stepped Dave Wannstedt. Johnson never truly lived up to the hype, as he was faced with the challenge of living up to the standards set by Don Shula. In a sense, Wannstedt was considered the heir apparent. Johnson didn’t work out, so now it was up to Dave to face the daunting task of not only following a popular coach in Shula, but also finding someone to replace one of the greatest to step on the field in Marino.

    In a surprise move, Wannstedt turned to journeyman QB Jay Fiedler as Marino’s heir apparent. Fiedler actually played relatively well; his QB rating as a Dolphin was 76.8. Fiedler was maligned by fans as the anti-Marino, a game-management specialist that didn’t take a lot of risks or throw a lot of passes, something fans were unfamiliar with during Marino’s tenure. I would make the argument that much like Wannstedt’s tenure, Fielder’s tenure has been judged too harsly by fans, but that’s a thesis for another post.

    Similarly, Wannstedt’s teams took on a different demeanor, no longer relying on the run-and-gun tactics while Marino was QB, which lead to unfair criticism of his teams being vanilla on both offense and defense. The ironic part is that we fans are are lauding the “new approach” that our front office is utilizing. In many respects, the team that Parcells, Sparano, and Ireland are attempting to build shares common themes with the teams coached by Wannstedt. Don’t commit turnovers. Have a solid running game. Have a solid defense that can make outstanding plays from time to time. Criticize the approach as vanilla, but we still won games.

    Conclusions
    To this day Wannstedt continues to be reviled by fans. I don’t disagree that he made mistakes. Every coach does. But I believe Dave has received more than an unfair amount of criticism despite his success in several key areas. He won games and division titles. He rediscovered the Dolphins running game, nearly 30 years after the glory years of the 1970s. His defenses played hard and the players on that side of the ball consistently went to the Pro Bowl. He faced harsh criticism and unfair expectations in replacing Jimmy Johnson, but he still produced results on the field.

    At the end of the day, isn’t that what it’s all about?
     
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I never thought Wannstedt was that bad either. JJ either (gasp). I think that after Saban BSed and just took off and then we go 1-15 with Family Guy, people just started picking apart past regimes and saying we've had ****ty coaches for a long time.

    I'm thinking this regime works out a lil better. :up:
     
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  3. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    helluva great write up bro, and I hate to rain on the parade but think Barry Switzer.. and December win percentages.
     
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  4. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

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    no that draft history... no no no, thats the first start of the problem... it was horrendous, you cant pick 5 semi decent players and say he had a good drafting history... 5 starter worthy players in 5 years, no way... plus never addressing the QB issues by sticking with Fiedler...

    he inherited that great defense and rode off of that... the Williams trade in retrospect was a disaster, giving up 2 first round picks for 1 great year and 1 average year of production is not in any way shape or form a good move
     
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  5. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    I agree we had our fair share of late season collapses, but the fact remains we were in the playoffs half the time.

    Don't get me wrong, his draft record is by no means amazing, but he was drafting for need because he had a playoff-caliber team. I don't think any of us foresaw Ricky retiring in the prime of his career. If you want to pick the smoking gun that put us where we are today as a franchise, I'd point to that event as the domino that started the whole thing.
     
  6. Phin-o-rama

    Phin-o-rama Well-Known Member

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    wanny was the HC and GM in the beginning, which I don't think was the right thing to do....spielman came along and made **** worse...

    i didn't like that wanny stuck with fiedler
     
  7. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    That's it. RopeWeed's unexpected "retirement" started the collapse. A HUGE number of injuries that year added to the problem. The culture of winning was broken that year.
     
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  8. Cuban Dave 9

    Cuban Dave 9 Lane Kiffin = A-Clown

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    Wannsteadt still declined as the years went by. We had a tough time trying to beat are ultimate enemy...the jets. Not to mention, that when we lost to the Jets, it cost us the postseason. But still he may have been the best coach post-shula just like fiedler was our best qb post-marino, but what does that say about what state we are in the 2000's. Would you rather be the head of the cat or the tail of the tiger? That's the difference between being the best non playoff team and the worst playofff team. He gave us no chance at being the pittsburg steelers of '05. Oddly enough he hasn't done anything to improve the pittsburg college team.
     
  9. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    We are now reaping the fruits of his draft day labors. He was handed a decent team and ran it into the ground.
     
  10. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree with everything in so-called "Fact 4". Wanstedt picked a few "decent" players and you're trying to defend his personnel decisions. Where were the great players, or even really good players he picked. Ugh...

    Todd Wade = average at best
    Chris Chambers = I'm not gonna open that can of worms...he had 1/2 of one good season.
    Randy McMichael = He sucked. Yeah, I said it. Too many key drops and fumbles.
    Yeremiah Bell = One good, not great season. A revelation? Please...
    Vern Carey = 2 years of underachieving and 2 years of solid play.

    And trading 2 #1 picks for ANY runningback is and was stupid.

    I dunno man, you're really stretching this whole thing.
     
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  11. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    4-12 just because your leading rusher quit football is no excuse. 4-12 is all anyone needed to know about this team under DW.
     
  12. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Ill add to my last post. In 2002, had the leading rusher and leading sack leader, as well as one of the top defenses and still miss the playoffs, is all anyone needed to know about DW.
     
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  13. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    In conclusion, Wanny's man-love for Jay Fiedler did him in.
     
  14. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    And run, run, throw, punt. And run, run, run, punt. And then throwing on 3rd down with a noodle arm qb with 15 or more yards because the running game wasnt working. And on and on and on....

    ugh, Im getting a headache.
     
  15. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    How many heart attacks did everyone suffer whenever Fielder threw the ball deep?
     
  16. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree with the main post in this thread. We made the playoffs in two of his four sethat asons in charge, and one of the seasons we didn't make it we still won ten games, something we haven't done since.

    Wannstedt could not have known that Ricky would retire, hell, no one did. It was probably the most shocking move the NFL has seen in the last decade.

    Under Wannstedt we were at least competitive in pretty much every damn game. I would sell the farm to be at that level now.
     
  17. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Thats not an excuse to go 4-12. One player retires and that blows up everything? His fault for assembling the offense and ultimately, the defense, around one player. I say defense because our one-dimensional offense led to many three and outs, and a tired worn out defense.
     
  18. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    You're right, he assembled the offense around one player. That player also happened to be one of the premier players at his position on an offense that was bereft of talent. I don't understand the argument not to rely on Ricky Williams, you already stated that we couldn't rely on Jay Fiedler.
     
  19. whatsburning

    whatsburning Junior Member

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    Just like Barry Switzer when he came to the NFL, DW inherited a talented team. He did not make one impact addition other than RW and literally ran the team into the ground. Had he chosen the BPA during the drafts, we may still have had a few gems left, and surely would not have had a need to hire Saban or Cameron...
     
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  20. phinman13

    phinman13 New Member

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    Drafting Jamar Fletcher and passing on Drew Brees when you alreday had Madison and Surtain in their prime is moronic. Do I also need to say the name Eddie Moore ? It is was great post with a lot of points but I think you missed a few.
     
  21. evz

    evz Feral Druid Club Member

    That's right - Eddie *Freakin* Moore... Jamar *Freakin* Fletcher...

    My own personal pet peeve about Wanny was the "keep it close and win it in the 4th" mentality... That is a loser mentality that led our guys to playing tight because they were afraid to make a mistake... GRRRRRRRRRR... I get irritated just remembering it. You think the patriots have that mentality? Hell no, they go for the throat... Teams that "keep it close" over the years end up failing ultimately, as that "afraid to lose" mentality eventually undermines every close game you are in... And playing conservative guarantees a lot of close games...

    I respectfully state that those of you that don't think Wanny was so bad really don't know what good is...
     
  22. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Dave Wannstedt was a DISASTER and there is no sugar coating it.

    He was in charge of drafting and player acquisition for 4 years, 2000-2003. What do we have left from those 4 drafts? ONE PLAYER! Yeremiah Bell, that's it. We got a grand total of one Pro Bowl appearance from the players he drafted (Chris Chambers) in 4 years. The players drafted in these 4 years should be the core of our team and we have nothing to show for it.

    No, Ricky Williams' Pro Bowl does not count in because Wanny got FLEECED in the deal. Mueller saw him coming and bent him over the hamper.

    The "we finally got a rushing game" is a dubious point in my opinion. Lamar Smith got 2100 yards in 2 seasons as a featured back on a running team. That is 65 yards per game. not great considering we were slamming him into the line 25 times a game for 2 years.

    Why were we forced to slam a scrap heap/waiver wire pick up runner into the line so many times? Because we had no passing game. Why did we have no passing game? Because of Wanny's unbridled love affair with Jay Fiedler. Who can ever forget the "there is nothing Trent Green can do that Jay Fiedler can't" comment. Or who can forget Wanny crapping the bed on the Matt Hasselbeck deal?

    As for the "defensive dynasty" comment, that is also dubious. Our defense was doing it with Jimmy Johnson's players and they we anything but a "dynasty" unless you consider blowing 4th quarter leads and never getting a key stop a "dynasty".

    In fact, I can make the arguement that Wanny WRECKED this defense. The strength of the defense when Wannstedt arrived was our front four. Taylor, Bowens, Owens, Gardener, Brommell, Mixon and Armstrong were a formidable group. Well, Wannstedt could not control Gardener so he cut him (even though Darryl had a bad back there was no back up plan). He let Brommell, Mixon and Armstrong leave via free agency. He also knew Tim Bowens had a wonky back.

    What did Dave do to replace these players? Well, he drafted a grand total of 3 defensive lineman in 4 drafts, none of them before the 6th round (Otis Leverette 7th, Davern Williams 7th, Ernest Grant 6th). Does it make sense to let defensive lineman walk away every year and not use PREMIUM picks to replace them?

    How did Wanny address our defense in his four drafts. A defense that was starting to age and get VERY expensive? Well, besides the 3 stellar defensive lineman he picked he also used premium draft picks on great names like Eddie Moore (2nd), Morlon Greenwood (3rd in a trade up that cost us a 2nd round pick), Jamar Fletcher (1st, in a draft that was loaded with offensive talent he drafts a player that played zone while we played man and he drafted a player that played a position that was manned by 2 Pro Bowlers with long term deals) and Ben Kelly (3rd).

    Wannstedt supporters always have the "Ricky blew up our season and cost him his job). Bull ****. Wanny is the one that had no fall back option on offense. Wanny is the one that had all his eggs in the "Ricky Williams basket". A player with a history of abnormal behavior. Wanny's also the one, it could be argued, that drove Ricky to retire. I think Ricky was a little tired of getting slammed into the line 30 times a game with no end in sight.

    Dave Wannstedt wrecked this franchise and he is the reason we are where we are. no one has less to show for 4 drafts then we do.

    No...Dave Wannstedt was not as bad as you think....he was worse.
     
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  23. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought Wanny was dead and buried. No offense meant, but it amazes me that there are still Wanny apologists in our group of friends. In any event, here's the counterargument; allow for the fact that it's only my theory.

    No one does everything wrong. Of course Wanny made some right decisions. But the proof of his ineptitude is in how the team regressed from a 9-to-12-win-per-year franchise to a 4-12 disaster. If you were to graph it, you would see a negative slope. That happened not only to the team's record, but to the team's culture, confidence, attitude and collective mental state.

    There are many factors to this decline that Wanny presided over, but the most pervasive one was lack of football smarts; the ability to figure out how to screw over the other guys and how not to get one's guys screwed over. Wanny figured that if he stuck to the "right" formula, he'd be rewarded with wins. That's not what football is, especially not at the NFL level. It's "nice guy" thinking, and nice guys finish last.

    Other teams figured Wanny's Dolphins out and he simply could not think his way out of what other teams were doing to him. His response was to coach scared; to coach not to lose. When he said "it's no sin to punt," that was all I needed to hear. He was simply in over his head. He couldn't be inventive or aggressive; he was a deer in the headlights. Inspiration and innovation became impossible; he was too busy waiting for the other shoe to drop. The personnel blunders and bad breaks, which smarter coaches overcome, compounded the problem and made him even more scared, and the vicious circle continued in a downward spiral to 4-12.

    If you disagree, look at the parallel history of his tenure at Chicago. Wanny wasn't a total bonehead, but he certainly had a lot of bonehead in him. He was simply not up to the mental level of smarter coaches with street malice who figured out fairly easily what he was trying to do and how to beat his system, while he, on the other hand, was a nice guy, at a loss to figure out what was going wrong or how to get out of it.

    It became an entire culture of ineptitude, fear and losing; a losing attitude. It's the first thing that Parcells has been trying to address: the mental state of the players. I think Parcells will be the one to finally exorcise Wanny and his legacy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2008
  24. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    great thread, superb write up, but . . . Pornstache sucked, he destroyed this franchise and should be shot without a blindfold.
     
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  25. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    unifiedtheory i'm with you man it hurts to think about it
     
  26. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Because Wannstadt did absolutely nothing to add some talent to the offense other than one ill-advised trade for RW, we were so bereft.

    Needing to build this team around one player because of a dearth of talent can be laid directly at his own feet. :pity:

    Nice post, Vengeful, but I've gotta disagree...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2008
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  27. fins4o8

    fins4o8 Mac FTW!

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    Anyone with football knowledge could of won and would of done a better job with the team that was given to him, I'm sorry to say.
     
  28. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    I would argue that bringing in guys like Marty Booker, David Boston and AJ Feeley were all attempts to add talent to the offense. Two pro bowl wideouts and a quarterback who looked very impressive in Philadelphia. They didn't work out, but they were still attempts to fix things.
     
  29. nyfinzfan

    nyfinzfan Dolphins shall rise!

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    And Wanny not letting Spielman pick the guys HE wanted Boldin,Hasselbeck,Brees Etc...was the reason we got those bums. Anyone who defends Wanny is out of their mind. He destroyed the franchise. A monkey with a shaved *** walking backward coulda made this a 9-12 win team. JJ left him a GREAT squad. We shoulda had a Super Bowl with Rickys 1800 yd season and that top defense but Wannys gay crush on the uber suck that was Jay Fiedler meant we couldnt throw a pass. A one armed mental patient coulda had a field day with play action that year but not good old ears. He was the most painful guy Ive ever watched. Popgun arm and innacurate to boot.Dont try telling me that Wanny or Fiedlers won/loss records were due to his play/coaching. The defense won a vast majority of those games. The fact is Wanny was awful as a coach and personnel guy and set us back 10 years. He is THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THIS FRANCHISE. The only other thing close was Csonka, Kick,Warfield to WFL but we recovered from that faster than Wanny
    For what its worth Spielman gets a bad rap as Wanny overrode the guys he wanted and picked bums. If we'd have had Hasselbeck/Boldin ooooooh my..and Spiels woulda been safe.
    :angry:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008
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  30. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    This topic has been hashed, rehashed and the rehash has been rehashed. This train wreck that has been the Dolphins franchise the last few years has to be layed at the feet of Dave Wannstedt and no one but Dave Wannstedt. Everytime the subject comes up the fact that he won with the talent Jimmy Johnson left him comes up.
    DW inherited talent in Chicago and run that team into the ground just as he did in Miami. Because of the inability to draft talent that would be the building blocks of any organization, this team has gotten to the shape it is now in.
    Its only my opinion but I truly believe Saban got out of Miami when he did because he realized in how bad of shape this organization was really in and didn't want it to tarnish his image or his desirability by teams looking for a head coach, such as Alabama. He knew this team had to get worse before it got better and it did. This is no excuse for Saban by any means as he should have known how big a job it was before he took on the responsibility.
    Now that brings up the question of why it was so big of a job? And the answer is, because Dave Wannstedt had not brought in any talent that would be the building blocks for this organization.
    There is no excuses for Ricky Williams behavior and he must accept the responsibility. Ricky Williams complained of the beating he was taking at running back for Miami at Wannstedt's direction and indicated he didn't want to play for Wannstedt. How much this had to do with his decisions and behavior is debatable.
    Now the final question is, how much did Wannstedt have to do with Miami's initial winning record?
    Did Miami win because of Dave Wannstedt or in spite of Dave Wannstedt?
     
  31. Marino1983

    Marino1983 Junior Member

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    Say what?
    :lol:

    Everyone knew all about williams being a 1st class headcase,,, except I guess wannstedt..
    The 2 draft picks williams cost this team are more insult to injury..

    There just are no excuses for this guy in my book.
    Wannstedt inherited a GREAT defense and left the offense flounder habitually next to it during his embarrassing reign as h-c here!

    What wanny did to Chicago was completely mild in comparison to the scars he left on this organization..





    Marino1983
     
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  32. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    I feel sick to my stomach having read that. The guy singlehandedly destroyed a great franchise by making one stupid decision after another.
     
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  33. Canefinz

    Canefinz New Member

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    watup, i got a homie frm the lil apple. great post, very true... JJ drfted Zack and JT and reallly add to shulas team. can u imagen if we had kept JJ around for about 10 Yrs ??? He was young at the time :)
     
  34. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Yeah I stopped reading when he wrote that the drafts weren't that bad. :sidelol: Are you joking me ? The backbone of last years team should have been Wannstedt picks, yet there was but 1 lone draft pick from 2000 to 2004 on that team. That is HORRENDOUS :angry:
     
  35. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    What he did to us is criminal, but Huizenga is more to blame than anyone. He knew what Wannstedt had done in Chicago, and he still hired him. :no:
     
  36. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Ha, youre using my old avatar. Hope no one thinks youre me. :up:
     
  37. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Huizenga hired Wannstedt because he was told to by JJ, the football god, for whom we ran Shula out of town on a rail. Remember? The game had passed Shula by. JJ turned out to be no god at all; he quit and left us Wannstedt. We are now 1-15. All of us who clamored for JJ must share the blame with Huizenga, and Shula would be laughing if he didn't have so much class.
     
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  38. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Revisionist history at it's best.......
     
  39. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I will give this thread one attribute. That is the fact that the claims are so erroneous that I found enough offense to post something that will probably be driven off the main page by 10 straight threads about a newspaper articles.

    You are wrong.

    I will address the win percentage later. What is astounding is the names you have cited that Wannstedt had to improve upon.

    George Wilson? It was a franchise from scratch! The Dolphins received no advantage whatsoever. To give an accurate comparison to you would have to go to the CFL, the arena league, one 14 round draft, and the street to pick a team. Since free agency was three full decades away, Wilson had two drafts to pick a team. Some accomplishment for Wannstedt overcoming that Wilson's record.

    Jimmy Johnson? As much as I despise him, the sad fact is that Jimmy Johnson arrived to a cap strapped team. Much of that cap constraint was due to the pressure placed upon Shula to win. The pressure culminated with such comments from local Miami favorite Jimmy Johnson saying on Fox "There is no way that team in Miami should not win the Superbowl with their free agent aquisitions and Dan Marino at quarterback." Jimmy's first measure of business in Miami was to dump the high priced players. Jimmy's talent was college talent aquisition and I commend him for that talent but he took Dan Marino and he didn't win squat. When I say he didn't win squat, I mean he took the Dolphins to two playoff appearances and a .565 win percentage in four years. You attempt to make it sound like Wannstedt accomplished something further than Johnson with his .575 win percentage and two playoff appearances in FIVE years.

    Bates? Nice try to make a comparison. Was it three games or four? I cannot remember. There isn't much about Dave Wannstedt's 2004 Dolphins that I would like to remember.

    Saban? He took over a 4-12 team. He improved that team to 9-7 the following year. When the turnaround proved to be a longer process than he originally thought, he bailed. He has been killed in the media and by fans for bailing just as he should.

    Cameron? One year and fired? Are you serious? Defeating Cameron's record is all one must do as an NFL coach in your eyes? Wow!

    Sporano? What a sad attempt to make an argument for Dave Wannstedt. The man has yet to coach an NFL game!!!

    You have your facts consistently wrong! Dave Wannstedt didn't lead his teams. He led Jimmy Johnson's teams. It has been documented that every NFL team is playing with talent acquired three-four years ago in the draft. That is the nucleus of every team. It is the nucleus because contracts for draft acquisitions and free agents typically range from 3-5 years. It is no coincedence that Wannstedt Dolphins made the playoffs five and six years after Jimmy Johnson first step foot in the Dolphins draft room. Dave Wannstedt proceeded to give Jimmy Johnson's draft picks long term, lucrative contracts that would lead to future problems. I would make the argument that the problems caused by Wannstedt's contracts would be such a detriment that the one and done playoff appearances were not worth it. You can continue to live in your fantasy world. All that I ask is that you do not lie for the sake of debate. Wannstedt coached the team for five years and did not make the playoffs in the final three years!

    Statistics are funny. They are funny because they never discuss the ebb and flow of the game. More on that later.......

    You cited a rushing statistic. What you did not cite was the attempts. I imagine that is because it did not fit into your argument. The rushing attempts for these teams were astounding in total number. It was so astounding that Wannstedt single handedly drove the debate of whether you could run the legs off a running back in a given year. I would argue that Wannstedt proved he could run the legs off a running back. He did that in one playoff game versus Indianapolis. Go back and look at Lamar Smith's rushing yards the week after that game.

    What you could not cite in your argument was total offense. That is because there was no total offense. The offensive plan was ball control. It was a "400 rushing attempts or bust" mantra.

    If you really buy into Dave Wannstedt's control the football approach, I suggest you watch more NFL football. The same thing is happening every year. Some team will come out rushing the football and passing on third down. Their defense will let them hang in the playoff chase. Just after Thanksgiving that team will begin to get in a points race in every other game. They will start passing a little more than the previous two months. The coaching staff has admitted that they have to turn the passing game lose to compete. Eight games in the quarterback starts proving his worth. This team now has balance. They relied upon their defense and a running game to get them halfway through the season. Every team is set in who they are and what they can do. Now you must throw the ball. If you can't throw the ball, you can't win.

    Wannstedt's failings in December were not related to the weather up north. Wannstedt's failings in December were directly related to his obsession for controlling the ball.

    Jimmy Johnson thanks you for mentioning all of the players he acquired (with Ogunleye being the lone exception). Did I mention that there was an article in the Miami papers that told the story of how Rick Spielman found Ogunleye?

    I did not quote your Ricky Williams plea because I didn't want anyone to laugh at it again.........

    Todd Wade - He was so good that the coach that drafted him (Wannstedt) did not want to pay him what somebody else wanted to pay him. On that note, what has Wade done for the Texans?

    Chris Chambers - Decent player but he was a second round pick.

    Randy McMichael - What did he ever do?

    Yeremiah Bell - Huh?

    Vernon Carey - This was Spielman's pick in a draft. He was crucified for being fleeced by the Vikings to move up. It was much publicized that Wannstedt no longer had control of personel decisions. Where were you?

    You have cited four players as decent players. Dave Wannstedt had total control over four different drafts. Four different drafts consisted of at least 28 drafts picks. One again, you cited four DECENT players out of 28 draft picks. :sidelol:

    More revisionist history. This is what happened.....

    In his final loss at Joe Robbie Stadium Don Shula was booed off the field.

    Jimmy Johnson burned out.

    Dave Wannstedt told Dan Marino he would not play for the Dolphins in 2000 and suggested that he retire. The Minnesota Vikings (among other teams) wanted Dan Marino. Dan Marino chose to retire as a Miami Dolphin.

    This is the fact about the Marino situation. If you do not have a replacement, you do not twist his arm to retire. Marino wanted to play another year. As history has shown, Marino (with no legs left at all) was three times the quarterback that Wannstedt had to replace him.

    The basis of your topic was flawed, your facts are wrong, and the coach that you defended was so bad that we have yet to reach his conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
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  40. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    The most accurate response yet. :up:
     
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