Small thing really. Justin Blackmon is making those QB's in Jacksonville look reaaaal good. Put him in New England and see what happens to his numbers. Because Calvin Johnson is so great, that he can suddenly make Matthew Stafford AWESOME. You know the guy with the 79 QB rating. If the WR makes the QB....how the hell can't Calvin Johnson make Matthew Stafford? Or that Brandon Marshall can turn Jay Cutler into a TOP Tier QB. NOT HAPPENING. The bottom line: THE Great QB makes a WR more than the Great WR makes a QB. I'm safe in saying Tannehill's QB rating is more because of RT than because of Wallace.
To answer the OP's question about how we're getting stops on third down, IMO it's about improving the pass rush and ball skills in the secondary. I've been preaching for years that you win in this league by passing efficiently and stopping the pass. We finally have a coach that shares that philosophy. In fact, he specifically stated the same, almost verbatim, shortly after he was hired. As for the other debate in this thread, IMO RT has obviously improved, but so has his supporting cast. Before the season, I said that I expected RT to put up Schaub type numbers as I saw him at least reaching that level this season. Of course, one of the usual negative nancies ridiculed that assessment. But the supporting cast has also clearly improved. The OL last year was worse. The sack numbers don't tell the whole story as we're having RT hold the ball longer for some of Wallace's routes and he just has more confidence that he can make a play. Last year RT threw the ball away very quickly, often too quickly. The WRs are considerably better. The receiving aspect of our TE position is much better. Overall the spacing is better.
I believe we are doing better on 1st down. Yesterday, we consistantly passed for 4-6 yards on first down. Last year, we didn't do as well. That and playing not so great teams. I hope we can win at home like we win on the road.
I agree that we're winning by getting off the field on third down, and imo after rewatching the game, it's because of better corner play that literally results in Passes defensed.. Maybe it's time to revisit the importance of the position.. Grimes played a fine game for his 2nd game coming off a major injury, he's only going to get more comfortable. Nolan actually played well in this game.. Yup, passes defensed in critical situations is a big factor, I believe grimes had 4 yesterday..Clemons had a couple.
People are pointing at different reasons, so this is a big set-up win by FinD...... aaaaaaaaand he loves it.
answers in blue. Aditionally, here's a few pages for you to run through regarding this very subject, starting with post #136 of this link and then through page 8. You're welcome in advance. http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?70937-2013-NFL-Draft-Thread/page7&highlight=culpepper
Defense is turning the ball over, offense is not turning the ball over, and Tannehill is being efficient. Imagine if the running game really gets going, Miller flashed some but he needs to build on it.
There's many reasons, but turnover differential is a big one. Our DBs our finally getting picks. It's huge.
More playmakers, and less Oline. Poor performance by the Dline and more playmakers at DB also. Playmakers > trenches.
Lol... Wallace, who I consider someone who has cred, loves his all whites.. Look good, feel good, play good.
You can talk till your face turns purple, let me give you one last final example.... Wes Welker as a Dolphin?!?! NOTHING. Wes Welker with Tom Brady ?!?! HALL OF FAMER! The Difference: THE QB. There is no single player more important to the Miami Offense than Ryan Tannehill and no single bigger reason for the improvement in Ryan Tannehill than Ryan Tannehill.. Can we stop pretending that Wallace Gibson or Hartline are headed to the HOF. You want to talk STRAW arguements - look no further than your Gronk arguement. Tom Brady has played his entire career without Gronk. How did that turn out for him?? What 3 Superbowls and first ballot HOFer. You shouldn't talk Brady, he has had entire seasons where he has turned a medicore crop into a great one.
You really have no clue what you're talking about. A. Welker was in the middle of ascending as a player when we traded him. You act like NE didn't give a SECOND ROUND PICK for him. You don't give out high draft picks for receivers who aren't talented. B. Brady won 3 SBs with significant aid from one of the NFL best defenses. C. Like EVERY HOF QB not named Fran Tarkenton, Brady needed the help of a great surrounding cast and great pass catchers to realize his HOF potential. [TABLE="class: grid, width: 900"] [TR] [TD="align: center"][/TD] [TD="align: center"]QBR[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Completion%[/TD] [TD="align: center"]yards[/TD] [TD="align: center"]TD[/TD] [TD="align: center"]YPA[/TD] [TD="align: center"]INT[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]2006 Brady [pre Welker, Moss, Gronk, Hernandez][/TD] [TD="align: center"]87.9[/TD] [TD="align: center"]61.8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]3529[/TD] [TD="align: center"]24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]6.8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]2007 Brady [with Welker & Moss][/TD] [TD="align: center"]117.2[/TD] [TD="align: center"]68.9[/TD] [TD="align: center"]4809[/TD] [TD="align: center"]50[/TD] [TD="align: center"]8.3[/TD] [TD="align: center"]8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Brady's 5 year avg before Welker, Moss, Gronk, Hernandez[/TD] [TD="align: center"]88.7[/TD] [TD="align: center"]61.6[/TD] [TD="align: center"]3743[/TD] [TD="align: center"]26[/TD] [TD="align: center"]7.1[/TD] [TD="align: center"]13[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Brady with Welker, Moss, Gronk, Hernandez[/TD] [TD="align: center"]105.5[/TD] [TD="align: center"]65.7[/TD] [TD="align: center"]4633[/TD] [TD="align: center"]37[/TD] [TD="align: center"]8.0[/TD] [TD="align: center"]9[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Brady's last 9 games [2012 & 2013] w/o Gronk and/or Welker[/TD] [TD="align: center"]85.2[/TD] [TD="align: center"]57.3[/TD] [TD="align: center"]2704[/TD] [TD="align: center"]18[/TD] [TD="align: center"]6.9[/TD] [TD="align: center"]8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]Brady's first 10 games of 2012 w/ Gronk & Welker[/TD] [TD="align: center"]102.6[/TD] [TD="align: center"]65.1[/TD] [TD="align: center"]2976[/TD] [TD="align: center"]21[/TD] [TD="align: center"]7.6[/TD] [TD="align: center"]3[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] go ahead, let's hear you argue away Brady's massive difference in production.
To me, the patsies switch to a heavy passing attack was the beginning of their fading from winning Sb's, to me it took away their toughness and swagger.
Ya and it looked like they were going for a return to those days this year...now Vereen and Amendola are out for a while, and Gronk's not back yet. Brady's frustrations last week were in large part because he's used to all pros that will run the perfect route every time and be where he knows they'll be, because they have that chemistry worked to an art. The young guys he has this year are not the same, so they're slightly off of where Brady expects to go, so should Brady adjust a little or should he keep throwing where Welker would be and get all pissed off when the rooks aren't there?
No doubt. Not taking away from Brady, b/c he's a HOF QB and IMO easily top 5 all time. However he's not the same Brady w/o a talented surrounding cast, just as Peyton Manning isn't the same Peyton when his receiving corps is depleted [see 2010 when Peyton was w/o 2009 All Pro Dallas Clark & Austin Collie and threw 13 INTs with a 74.2 QBR in a 5 game stretch after posting a 6 game stretch of 103.4 QBR and 2 INTs w/ Clark & Collie]. Sure Brady'll have some Brady-like games, but he'll be inconsistent b/c the NFL is too talented overall to let one player alone consistently dominate them. Tarkenton might be the only great QB throughout history to achieve greatness w/o a talented group of pass catchers. Receivers still need to run routes, beat press, get open, understand coverage, catch passes, make plays with the ball in the air, and make plays after the catch. The QB obviously can't do that for them.
Hey 72 Dolphins, how do Ben and the Steelers' offense look w/o Wallace? 16 total points? {verse an avg of 21.9 ppg with Wallace} 74.8 QBR? {96.0 w/ Wallace} 2.9 TD% {4.8% w/ Wallace} 6.3 yards/attempt {8.0 w/ Wallace} 1:1 TD-INT ratio {2.3:1 w/ Wallace} 221 passing ypg {270 w/ Wallace} Steelers never posted back to back games of 10 or less points in 4 years w/ Wallace. As of now Miami is averaging 23.5 ppg, compared to 18.0 ppg in 2012. Tannehill has improved, but a big part of that uptick in scoring is on the upgraded receiving corps. Cleveland took away our top receiver but unlike last year we were still left with 2 other capable receivers to turn to. If teams wanted to take away Hartline last year we were left with Bess and nobody. BIG.DIFFERENCE. In 2 games we've already had 2 TDs of 15+ yards and were inches short of another; we had 5 all of last year. Wallace's 15 yard TD was all YAC. Not sure why you presume it's about the QB doing it all by himself, and not sure how you don't understand the impact of having the field expanded this year with Wallace on it, as well as Clay rather than Fasano.
I'm going to go with, linebackers. Ellerbe and Wheeler play very fast. Both have a varied skillet and the scheme suits their ability. Misi is playing well too. With the late 90's phins, it was zack and... Yup, pretty much just zack. This might be the best LB core we've had in a long while. Combined with a nasty dline, our front 7 is dangerous.
Your like talking to a wall !! I never said a reciever doesn't have an impact - WHAT I AM SAYING AND LISTEN CAREFULLY A GREAT QB DOES MORE FOR A WR THAN A GREAT WR DOES FOR A QB ! Nobody is claiming that a Welker didn't help Brady or the Patriots, but I assure you Brady helped Welkers career more. You have cherry picked Brady's MVP season - Grats for you. Brady had a career season. In 2005 Brady had a QB rating of 92.3 and threw for 4110 yards while New England had ZERO - count them ZERO 1,000 yard recievers. In 2009 Brady had a QB rating of 96.2 and threw for 4398 yards with your aforementioned Moss and Welker. I could ask you, what happened in 2009?? And you will come back with more drivel... when in reality, there are so many more variables that go into these numbers, such as, quality of offensive line, quality of schedule, quality of defenses faced that season, health, weather, etc. etc. etc. In 2009 Welker and Moss meant nothing to Brady that he didn't accomplish in 2005 without a single 1,000 yard reciever, AND WHAT?? You can talk about how bad the Steelers are early this season and attribute that to no Wallace, when Antonio Brown is every bit as talented and as fast as Wallace. In truth, the Steelers have a lot of problems that aren't named Wallace, like losing their All-Pro Center for the season and their starting Running Back for the start of the season. As well as Ben's favorite safety valve in Heath Miller. Does losing Wallace help, definately not, is it the sole reason for Pittsburghs' decline, highly doubtful. I'm going to say it for the last time - A GREAT QB means more to a team than a GREAT WR. If you doubt that let me leave you with this little tid-bit.... Tom Brady won THREE superbowls with $hit at WR....PRE-WELKER MOSS GRONK and anyone else you want to name. HE WON ZERO with them. So you were trying to tell me how important Welker Moss Gronk Hernandez were to Brady??
By drivel I take it you mean me mentioning Brady's first season back after missing all of 2008 due to his blown out knee? Yeah, those sort of things take time to get back to 100% from. duh. You don't need elite talent at WR to win a SB when you have the game's best D at your back. And Brady didn't have sh-t at WR either. It wasn't what it became from 2007 and on, but it certainly wasn't garbage. It was good enough to aid his success but not good enough to let him develop into the elite Tom Brady we've come to know. so you're one of those people who treat a team's defensive success or lack there of as being insignificant when determining accountability?
I'm not the guy linking threads that overstate the importance of a GREAT WR. Brady won Superbowls without one and while a great defense certainly isn't insignificant, neither is having a great QB like Tom Brady. He elevates every guy on that offense and is the single most important guy on that offense. A Great WR is a luxury not a necessity. And for the record New England gave up 272 points in 2001 and 274 in 2007. Randy Moss in 2006(Without Brady) 553 yds and 3 TD's. Randy Moss in 2007 (With Brady) 1493 yds and 23 TD's. This when everyone had him written for done. Brady revived his career. Having Brady saw Moss increase his yards by 300% and his TD's 800% Did we see those kind of crazy increases in Brady from 2006 to 2007 - Hardly. Whom was more important for whom? This isn't to say having a great player at any position isn't a benefit, it is only to say that having a great QB is more important and being a great QB has little to do with anything but being a great QB. Ryan Tannehill is on his way to being a great QB and he is going to be one, long after Mike Wallace is gone. Ryan Tannehill makes this offense go not Mike Wallace.
Try to follow here. - Todd and I are not saying Tannehill is bad, or not the most important or anything negative about him at all. - We both were extremely ecstatic when he was drafted and have been two of his biggest defenders since he's been here. You weren't here last season, you have no idea of the epic battles we had defending Tannehill. - All we are arguing is that his improvement this year, so far, from the second half of the season is mostly centered around the fact that he has options to throw to that he did not last year. - I believe that the real jump in Tannehill's play will come in the second half of this season like it did last season and it will be huge because now he has more options to make even more happen. - Many of the differences you think you're seeing are based on having the correct players for the system. Like decision making: Last year, he only Bess and Hartline and sometimes Fasano. Hartline has been excellent this year, but there's a huge difference between a doubled Hartline and a single covered Hartline. Hartline got open, but it took awhile because he had to beat two guys or find the soft spot between them. Bess often had extra eyes on him as well, because we simply were not that hard to defend. You stack the box to defend the run which also made it tough for tiny and slow Bess to navigate through and present to Ryan. All of that to say, it took a very long time for either player to get open. If his only 2 targets aren't open and his knee was keeping him form running....what does he do, just throw the ball away every other play? No, of course not. This year, Wallace is the missing piece of the puzzle...for this specific offense. We've already seen how that changes the offense overall. Hartline is not double covered. Wallace keeps 8 in the box form happening on every play, which in turn opens the middle of the field for Gibson and Clay. This specific offense is dependent on all of its parts being the right KIND of player more than it is about the a SPECIFIC player. Brandon Marshall is a better WR than Mike Wallace. He is not a better WR for this specific offense though. Marshall is a giant and tough possession receiver. This specific offense needs the speed receiver to work. Without it, the rest of the pieces do not work right. So if Marshall came back, it would be at Hartline's spot and not Wallace's (granted Hartline would move to Gibson's spot int hat scenario). Think of this offense like a car. You cannot win a race without an amazing driver (QB), but the car ain't going anywhere without wheels (3 WRs & TE). That is why the offense is markedly better so far this year. The pieces fit correctly. Again, Tannehill will make a huge jump this year, and if you stop and think about what we're saying before you react to what we're saying, you'll realize we're being considerably more positive about Tannehill than you are.
Respectfully and eloquently put, though I find this to be a circular argument. There have been tons of instances of average QBs with gaudy numbers due to great receiving (think about that Matt Flynn game a couple years ago) and average WRs that have great years due to awesome QB play (Robert Meachem in NO as opposed to SD). I don't think there is any right answer, they both help each other out.
WADR, if that's what you think I was arguing, then I wasn't that eloquent. I'm not talking about any other QB or any other WR on any other team.
I'm sorry, not that argument specifically. The over-arching one. Believe me, I'm on yours and phinsational's side on this, it was the reason I joined the boards last December.
Well, try getting that close and personal with a goat every night and tell me you wouldn't stink as well. Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Again, hogtying a dude and telling him to squeal doesn't make him a pig you sick bastidge. Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
3rd down on both sides of the ball. Stopping it as well as converting them. Big change from last year.
