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Breaking Down the Dolphins Struggles with Tight Ends

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Some more...

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  3. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    CK wich program do you use for making .gif´s ?
     
  4. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Sensational work. This is awesome.

    We definitely have to do a much better job of harrasing the TE at the line of scrimmage.

    Why does Rashad Jones turn into a boy amongst men vs TEs?

    The misdirection pass play by the Colts was a thing of beauty- must give credit where its due.
     
  5. Oboy

    Oboy Premium Member Luxury Box

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    now I am going to go read the article now. However, from looking at the gifs.. A question comes to mind, why are we letting the TE have a free release almost every time? Shouldn't we get a hit in every once in a while?
     
  6. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It sucks because they could have gotten away with the coverage called on the one Jordan Cameron TD catch, but Grimes took a horrible angle.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He just didn't relate to the receiver at all, kept eyeballing the quarterback.

    But Wheeler allowed a free release at the line and Cameron was open earlier on the route as a result.
     
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  8. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I wonder how much of this is a function of an inability to defend tight ends vs a function that the tight end position has simply become the match up position on offense in the NFL? My guess is, every team is struggling to cover tight ends.
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    In my opinion? Leaky zone coverage and mental mistakes.

    I'm not necessarily seeing a bunch of instances where the tight end is presenting a matchup issue. It has happened. Those plays Coby Fleener made against Chris Clemons, neither of which showed up on the box score, were matchup issues as much as they were mental or technical mistakes by Clemons.

    The first tight end catch of the season against Brent Grimes, you could argue that was a matchup issue since Cameron is so much bigger than Grimes yet incredibly athletic and so Grimes had to play him a certain way and couldn't stay plastered during the scramble drill.

    But other than that, I've seen all of the work and I don't think it's a position matchup problem.

    I think it's the simple fact that the tight end is the player most likely to cross multiple zones of responsibility in a defense's zone coverage, and those zone defenders just aren't handling that very well. They're not showing awareness. They're not relating to the receiver quickly enough, or they're not relating to him efficiently. It doesn't help that Kevin Coyle's scheme is asking for defensive linemen to drop back into a zone coverage. The well practiced zone defenders are having a tough enough time relating to receivers entering their zones, let alone 270 pound defensive linemen like Derrick Shelby and Olivier Vernon. The defensive players are also making mental errors like getting sucked up into play-action, having pre-snap miscommunications, etc.

    These are the real reasons Miami is letting up tight end production. The primary problem with simply explaining it all away with a league-wide trend is the fact that Miami is 28th in the league in defending tight ends thus far, and that could have been MUCH worse but for a few lucky breaks.
     
  10. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    My example for that was the Bucs and Saints game. Jimmy Graham still had an amazing game despite the rest of the Saints offense being held in check by the Bucs defense. I don't any team has figured it out but I think that trying to cover TEs with LBs and Ss as they run in and out of zones just isn't working.

    I remember a couple of years ago there was talk about defenses not having a comparable player to account for the TE and that maybe the answer was a LB/S hybrid player

    EDIT: I see above CK explained what I was thinking in better detail
     
  11. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Far better to have Jordan drop into coverage from the DE position than Wake. I'd like to see Jelani Jenkins get some OLB reps on 3rd and long situations, maybe pull some stunts with Jordan.

    :27
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SXCVI5IJJE
     
  12. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    First.....I think this is your best write up yet. What separates it from the others..is your dual examples....good vs. bad, and the gifs to show. One...I think it reinforces your message of, this is fixable, and two...it really does a good job of explaining why we are having issues in the backfield.

    If I were critiquing your pieces...to me anyways..its seems at times you tend to be so careful about coming across as a fan of the team, that it can sound overly negative at times. I LOVE THIS BALANCE.

    Id would love more of ...heres an example of where it was done correctly, and heres where we made the mistake....!!
     
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  13. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I was asking the same thing....I dont understand not jamming the TE at the line.
     
  14. isaacjunk

    isaacjunk Member

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    Many have mentioned Jordan as a possible TE-killer----what do you think of plastering him to some of the elite TE in the league? Does he have the capabilities to shutdown the likes of Gronkowski?
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I would rather not see Jelani Jenkins on the football field...pretty much for any reason.
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    First off, thank you for the compliments. I really appreciate it.

    Second, I'm kind of shocked you consider my previous pieces to be overly negative and this one to be more balanced. My previous breakdowns such as the use of the slot receiver, the use of Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline's big day against the Cleveland, the use of Dion Jordan...quite frankly I felt like I wasn't really representing both sides very well at all. I made a conscious decision to pull punches because I know fans don't want to hear the negative side or much in the way of criticism. This tight end piece has been by far my most critical piece, I think.
     
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  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He could do it. It's a matter of making the decision whether he's more valuable rushing the passer or doing that.

    Quite honestly, Phil Wheeler is perfectly capable of doing it and he's done well when asked. But they blitz so much he never gets the chance.
     
  18. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I didn't like the draft pick and I think that Jenkins will get buried at the LOS. What he can do, at least from what I've seen, is cover. So can Jordan, but then again he has to get after the QBs. Jordan, especially at 6-6 with speed and quicks, is my choice to cover the Gronks, Camerons, and Gonzlez's of the league. The problem is that he can't pass rush and cover at the same time. I'd rather have Jenkins in coverage than Misi or the other LB's. If he can't do that, then I don't know why we drafted him with so many good players on the board at that point. Even so, baffling.
     
  19. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well...see...I know you well enough to NOT have taken them negatively. Ive read your analysis of our team and draft for many moons now, so I understand your tone. If I were unaccustomed to reading it however, I think it could be taken negative. And..maybe that's the wrong word to use, so let me take another stab. Overly critical? Anyways...that's just me giving my honest opinion on something I thoroughly enjoy reading.
     
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  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Great stuff. I look forward to these. Thanks.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yeah well let's just say I generally dread the work I have to do on Sunday, I'm just sort of "ok" with what I have to do Monday night, and then I get amped up for the stuff I have to do Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights.

    Sunday is such a bear. I hate it. I've got to do some sort of live in-game assignment, a "takeaways" piece that is supposed to be released within 2-3 hours of the game ending, and by 7am the next morning a full grades workup. Which essentially means that on Sunday I'm doing three things and none of them are particularly any good. Or at least by my standards for myself.

    The pieces that get released Wednesday, Thursday and Friday seem to house my highest quality work but not necessarily the most hits.
     
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  22. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Is this a full time gig for you now?
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Thankfully, no.
     
  24. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Sounds like an awful lot of work, hats off to you.
     
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  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Thanks.

    Nothing wrong with hard work if it pays. I took this one because they doubled the offers they'd been sending me the previous two years.
     
  26. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nice breakdown CK... but my question to you, since Miami is 28th, what is the difference in yards or however this ranking is done, between let's say Miami and a TOP 10 team?
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Exactly my thought when I started reading the thread.
     
  28. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I still see Dion Jordan as the answer as a coverage LB (as well as a pass rush threat opposite Cam Wake) and I still see him ideally as an OLB. Look at his quicks at 2:23, this guy covers a lot of space, and fast:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMoel8E3HaE

    I want to see him in space, using that speed, quickness, athletic ability and 6-6 frame to cover Fleener, Cameron, et al. Too much speed, athleticism and quicks to get mauled at the LOS by OT's, he's just best suited ant OLB imo. Given the current roster I can see why he's at DE, I just don't want him to stay there. Jordan obviously provides a lot of scheme versatility, but I'm wondering if Derrick Shelby will get more playing time at De and Jordan kicks out to OLB on passing situations, making Koa Misi more of a 2 down OLB.
     
  29. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    We'll learn a lot about Coyle this week. Gonzalez has always killed us.
     
  30. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    CK, I really enjoy these analyses. Kudos to you and thanks for bringing them here along with the follow up. I'm curious what your background is if you wish to share. Did you play, coach or work on a staff at some point?

    Also, I'd be interested in your skepticism of Jenkins. No doubt, he's not ready to see significant snaps yet, but his strength is undoubtedly in coverage. I watched him a lot as a Gator and while he was an oft injured, solid but unspectacular starter, it was easy to see the raw talent. He's also a Philbin type player, in that he was reported to be a very intelligent, respectful kid who steered clear of trouble. Coming out of HS, he was a big time recruit and my sense from his Florida days was that he had a ton of upside given his speed and smarts, but that he just never put it all together because of injuries. If there is an obvious knock on him, it is that he is not particularly physical or adept at shedding blocks, which could certainly be a fatal flaw at this level.
     
  31. pdaj

    pdaj Well-Known Member

    CK --

    Great write up/break down. It's encouraging to see that much of the success had by opponents' tight ends is due to a failure in responsibility/execution. I think it's reasonable to hope the defense will improve in this area.

    My lone issue with your article:

    Jones dropped the pass. I think the stats you detailed at the beginning of your article are strong enough to justify your analysis. Once you start bringing up catches "that should have been caught" or that referees "perceived to be dropped", you belabor the point.
     

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