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Miami not a finalist for superbowl 2018

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    How exactly would you enforce the collection of funds from everyone that would benefit? You pretty much just spelled out the functional necessity of taxation?
     
  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    New Orleans Superdome is a dump as well, so the facilities thing is a wash. We're talking about a stadium that just had a blackout after halftime last year and they're a finalist, and has the worst turf in the league.
     
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  3. PhillyPhin

    PhillyPhin Banned

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    There's Miami's only shot of seeing a SuperBowl in the next 5 years. :pity:
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your basing your defense on the theory that you don't believe that superbowls provide a boost to the local economy, and you don't see how not upgrading can affect future events coming to Miami negatively.

    If you don't believe those two things to be valid then the debate is futile.
     
  5. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I was just at the Dolphins game in New Orleans two weeks ago. That stadium isn't in much better shape than the Old Orange Bowl was before it was torn down. So your argument that the Super Bowl game today is a different product than it was when it was played in the old Orange Bowl is a bunch of crap.

    If the stadium in New Orleans just had the last SB game and it is on the short list for the 2018 game. This clearly shows that the selection of the site hasn't absolutely nothing to do with condition of the stadium. The NFL owners want to dictate to South Florida that we either give them what they want or they won't return to South Florida for another SB game. I don't take kindly to this type of blackmail on the part of billionaire NFL owners. You on the other hand obviously have no problem bending over and letting them give it to you any way they want to.

    It is because of thinking like yours that the NFL actually believes they should be allowed to dictate to the voters and politicians how to spend tax money in NFL cities. You are the one stuck in the 1970's, not me.
     
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  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    If a natural disaster ravaged South Florida the way it did NO, then Miami certainly would get a SB, regardless of stadium.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    In what world does this constitute blackmail??? The NFL doesn't owe anyone SBs. Its a business-deal, plan and simple.
     
  8. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've already conceded when we started discussing Superbowl II. I'm out bro. You guys can have it. Now we've made a trip up 95 cross I10 to New Orleans. I'm not going to play the grasping for excuses game. Point. Blank. Period......Miami's not getting any Superbowls. Sit at home and be mad at Goodell. It burns calories.
     
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am basing my defense on the fact I don't believe TAX money should be used to renovate the the privately owned stadium. I'm not against the renovations, only who should pay for these renovations. I have made it clear that I'm willing to pay more money for the season tickets I buy for the Dolphins and the Hurricanes because I actually use the stadium.

    As far as the Super Bowl is concerned. You are right I can take it or leave it. It's going to be played every year, whether it's in Miami or somewhere else. I attended a couple of SB's many years ago and I prefer watching the game on TV, instead of going to the game.

    If upgrading the stadium will be the benefit you seem to think it will be, these upgrades should be paid for by the fans who attend events at the stadium and by the owner. If the businesses and hotels actually reap all the benefits from the games that you seem to think they do. They can always donate funds for the renovations of the stadium.

    You obviously haven't gotten that I'm not opposed to the renovations, only who will pay for these renovations. I'm willing to pay the extra surcharge for these renovations on the 8 season tickets I buy for the Dolphin and Hurricane games. I'll do my share, but it is up to all the other tickets buyers to do their share too. I believe that this surcharge and along with the money Ross has stated he would spend on the renovations will be plenty of money to pay for these upgrades over the next 30 years. Ross had stated that he would include in his agreement that all monies would be paid back in 30 years. By having those who actually attend games pay for the upgrades over the next 30 years, Ross or whoever is the owner is 30 years won't have to pay any money back.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i think your fine with paying extra but I would bet you would be in the minority on that, and you would be risking losing more holders..we can't afford that..

    Ross isn't asking them to pay for everything, approx 40%, both entities stand to make money with the upgrades, why don't you think it's fair?, just because you don't want tourists paying a a penny tax?
     
  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    What makes you think I'm mad at Goodell. I have made it very clear that I don't care if the SB is in Miami or not. The game is going to be played and I'll watch it on TV as I have for years. As far as me bringing up the game in New Orleans. You are the one that stated that the SB is a different product today. I merely pointed out that the stadium in New Orleans and the poor condition it is in, clearly shows that the stadium is really not an issue when it comes to granting SB's to a city.

    I don't blame the NFL and Goodell for trying to force the city to upgrade the stadium and using the threat of no more SB's if we don't cave to their demands. Why shouldn't they think they can get away with this when they have had success in so many other cities using this same threat. Fortunately the voters here in Miami-Dade County aren't as willing to give into these demands as the citizens in other cities and counties have done in the past.

    The economy is different today and tax dollars for private enterprises aren't as readily available as they were in the past. I don't like the approach Goodell and the NFL owner's have taken in regards to not having another SB in South Florida unless the tax payers agree to help fund these renovations, but I certainly can't blame them for trying. If getting mad at them would actually help me burn calories, I would be mad at them for that reason only. Since I don't care if we get another SB or not, why would I waste my time being mad at Goodell?
     
  12. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Why should I be in the minority, when it is only those people who actually go to the stadium who benefit from these renovations? I admit that the cost of the tickets is really irrelevant to me. I like going to the games and I would gladly pay twice the ticket amounts that I now pay to attend both the Hurricane and Dolphin games. Of course I am 100% satisfied with the stadium the way it is today. I certainly don't need to be covered during a game. I don't mind the rain when it comes. In fact the only time I have ever gotten up and left my seat during a rain storm has been when there has been severe lighting around the stadium.

    I have no idea why the stadium needs any type of covering. Yes I would like the seats to be closer to the playing field, but when Joe Robbie built the stadium, he build it to also house a future baseball team. Obviously this design effects the atmosphere at the games. Yet several SB's have already been held in the stadium and the design was never a problem during those games.

    The reason I don't agree with tourists paying for the renovations is because I travel 8-10 weeks every year. I see how rates at hotels have gone up over the years so that tourists are forced to pay more and more in taxes to locale communities. I got so tired of paying higher and higher taxes that I eventually stopped traveling to many locations that charged these high taxes. My wife and decided to just purchase vacation homes in the two areas of the country we like best and we have basically just traveled to these areas in recent years. When taxes start rising too high, people find other places to vacation.
     
  13. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    "The exertion of pressure or threats in an attempt to influence someone's actions". That is one of many definitions of the term blackmail. While I agree the NFL doesn't owe any city a SB game, they have basically told the citizens and politicians of Miami-Dade county that this area will not get another SB until renovations have been made to the stadium and they expect part of these renovations to be paid with local taxes.

    So if we want any more Super Bowls in Miami, we have to agree to their demands or else we won't get anymore Super Bowls. It certainly appears to me that they are trying to influence this issue by threatening to prevent any more SB's in our area if we don't do as they demand, hence this is a type of community blackmail by the NFL.

    If you see this as merely a business deal, I sure wouldn't want to do business with you.
     
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  14. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    Great post JW
     
  15. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    As a UK citizen I'm always baffled by the way teams are allowed to extort money from the tax payer in the US to build stadiums for their glory. Ross isn't poor, he should really pay himself. It's mightily unfair of a league which turns over $10B to expect the local populace to foot the bill. The idea that massive sports events bring wealth to local areas is pretty tenuous. Yeah the bars and hotels for a week might do, does this justify hundreds of millions for?
     
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  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    There's always debate about how much economic impact a Super Bowl brings. People argue about what should and shouldn't be included. For the 2013 SB the University of New Orleans did a study and concluded that the economic impact was $480 million for the area. If those numbers are accurate and upgrades yield more than one SB and/or other events then the answer is 'yes', it does justify hundreds of millions.

    http://www.neworleanssaints.com/new...wl-XLVII/cbca86b4-b23c-42c2-8672-dfd075aba590
     
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  17. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    those same players that are shown no loyalty??? riiiiight
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe now folks will open their freakin brains...Jesus..

    Ross layed a great deal on the table for the city to continue to be relevant in the big business of superbowls and world class events, and what it would mean to your favorite football team and it's fanbase, the public and states backlash shows the lack of big picture vision and a lack of understanding that is imo, lets just say not smart.
     
  19. There is nothing that requires enforcement. It is a voluntary process.
     
  20. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I get your point of view. I find it distasteful that billionaires dictate to the tax payers what they want. The conversation on here recently was the future of the dolphins and the possibility of them departing. Its a ransom. I know American sport is different from UK sport, it still makes me uneasy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2016
  21. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the disaster with the Marlins has made upgrading the stadium a tough sell and understandably so but its a good move for Miami to spend the money. The economic impact is worth the expense. People need to relax some of the rhetoric is kind of silly, the league is trying to give the region a Superbowl and hundreds of millions in local revenue and they are justifiably asking for a commitment to the team, its not extortion or whatever hyperbole people are labeling it as, Goodell is not the enemy. I wish I lived in an area where I could see my favorite team play every year and go to a Superbowl every 5 years or so too, people act like its some burden its ridiculous.
     
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  22. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bu bu bu ........taxes ........ Billionaires.......Jeff Ireland! Finkle is Einhorn! *heads explodes*

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
     
  23. Yes those same players that demand a % of the profits and want to be elevated to being equal to the owners. If they want a % of the profits they should accept a % of the expenses too. They could collectively raise money through the NFLPA and let the union decide which city is due for an upgraded stadium and contribute to it.
     
  24. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Ross owns the place, he should pay for the upgrade himself. 30 year loan, what a load of crap. At his age, pay for it yourself. Cheap bastard.
     
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  25. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Amen.

    This is right on the money.
    What the NFL is doing here is absolute Bullshiznit.
    They're acting like a petulant child about it now.
     
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  26. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Amazing you had to explain this but well done.
     
  27. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why would they put a Superbowl in an area that isn't backing their team over areas that are? Its kind of commonsense more than blackmail. Look at areas that help pay for new stadiums or upgrades, they get a Superbowl.....its pretty simple and the NFL isn't stupid....pay for a stadium and they give you a big payday for your city....kind of straight forward. But by all means keep fighting against a boogeyman and enjoy not having any Superbowls.
     
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Well DJ, it should make you very happy to know that there will be four less votes against the referendum the next time it is put before the voters of Miami. Of course starting next year the Dolphins and Hurricanes are going to have to find someone else to purchase the four season tickets for each team, I have been buying for over 30 years.

    Last night my son-in-law and our daughter informed my wife and me that they would be moving to Seattle, Washington after the first of the year, because my son-in-law received a big promotion, and it will require him to relocate to Seattle. My wife and I have remained in South Florida since I retired eight years ago only because our daughter and our grandson's were here. I had intended to move out of Florida once I retired, but family has a way of keeping you in a certain location.

    We have visited Seattle several times and I think it will be a great place for the our grandsons to grow up. My wife though isn't crazy about living in an area that has so much rain throughout the year. So we have decided that we will just put our home here on the market and once it is sold, we will be moving to Maui, Hawaii. This has always been our favorite place to visit and we have had a vacation home there for the last 12 years. It always seemed so far from family that we really never thought we would live there on a permanent basis. Now with our only child and her children moving to Seattle, we will be just as close to them living in Hawaii as we would be living here in Miami.

    So I will stop arguing with you about renovations to the stadium or who should pay for them. Because once I move out of South Florida, I have to admit it won't matter to me anymore. I'll miss going to the Dolphin and Hurricane Games during football season, but it will be interesting to get up and watch the 1:00pm Dolphin games at 7:00am in Hawaii. I'll be able to watch the early and late games and still go out and tee off before 2:00 PM Hawaii time.

    I will miss seeing many of the friends I have made over the years going to Dolphin and Hurricane games, but I won't miss the heat and humidity of the summer in South Florida. My wife and I will still try to attend at least one Dolphin game a year when they travel out west. Probably the best thing about moving is that if the Dolphins ever do get fed up with the lack of attendance and decide to relocate from South Florida, I will be able to remain a fan, no matter where they go. I used to feel that if they left South Florida, I would lose interest in them. Now that I'm leaving first, I no longer feel that way. I do hope though that they remain in South Florida for many years to come.

    After living in South Florida for over 50 years, I think it is time to move on. Good luck with your stadium campaign. We may not agree on this matter, but I certainly love your passion for the Dolphins and I know you only want what you feel is best for the fans and the organization in the long term. I'll still be on here for at least the rest of this season egging you on, but I don't know how often I will be visiting this forum once we do move to Hawaii. I assume I will still check in and see what the fans are saying about the team from time to time, but not living here in South Florida will make it much more difficult to keep up with the day to day news of the Dolphins.

    If the referendum wins by 4 votes next time, you can thank me at that time. LOL.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your old retired golf'in *** better stay on the boards..

    Love Hawaii, terrible sushi there for some reason unless you go to the best like Nobu...ask about the mile marker 80 something if you wanna jump off some awesome cliffs in a beautiful lagoon..
     
  30. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I'm not a big sushi guy, but I do love all the cooked fresh fish throughout the island. I also love the mountains and the drive to Hana. I jumped off some cliffs when we first visited Hawaii in my 30's. I haven't tried it since, but once we move there for good, I just might try it again.

    The one board I will definitely stay on when we move to Maui is my surf board. I took up surfing 12 years ago and I always have taken time to ride some waves every time we have visited Maui over the past 12 years. I'm not real good at it and I certainly don't go where the biggest or most dangerous waves are, but I'm good enough to ride the smaller waves to shore. Maybe living there will give me the time to become a better surfer, but at 63 years of age, I guess I'm just lucky to be able to stand on a surf board.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Been there many times, it's bizarre that they don't have very many good little fish shacks servin up the freshness that the ocean has to offer in a very interesting visual way..it's something I've been workin on..

    The water in Hawaii is just absolutely addictive, to me the addiction to be in it every day is because it feels like your swimming in fresh water..amazing.
     
  32. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    We were in Maui last year and we were swimming with the giant turtles and a group of 10-12 Dolphins went swimming right by us.

    Many of the people I am friends with here in Miami don't understand why I prefer Hawaii to South Florida. They assume it is basically the same because they are both in tropical regions. I have tried to explain to them that it is the mountains, the trade winds, and the reduced humidity that makes Hawaii such a fabulous place to live.

    It is also great to be able to wear shorts and flip flops everywhere you go on the Island, anytime of year and feel right at home. Of course the trade winds blowing off the ocean after nightfall can be a little chilly for those people visiting from South Florida. My wife and I always take a walk on the beach and watch the sunsets each evening and she always brings along a light jacket for the cooler temperatures along the beach.

    Since you have been to Maui before, I hope you have taken the bike ride down Mt Haleakala. I have taken a bike on this ride several times and it is great. Of course you can get going pretty fast down the mountain, so it is wise to make sure you have good breaks on your bike. The early morning rides are the best if you decide to try it, but make sure to bring a jacket because it can get really cold at the top of Haleakala.

    We have also driven up to the top of Haleakala a couple of times to watch the sun rise. Seeing all the stars in the sky before the sun rises is a sight which you can no longer see in South Florida because of all the lights in our area. The sun rise coming through the mountain tops makes getting up at 1:30 in the morning and making the hour and a half drive to the mountain top, well worth it. If you go though, make sure to take a blanket from your hotel room to put around you. It is freezing on the top of Haleakala that early in the morning. Last year we went and forgot to take anything but a couple of light jackets. It took my wife over an hour after we got off the mountain before her hands were no longer numb from being so cold, and that was in June. Go during the winter and the temperature can be several degrees below freezing at that time of the morning on the mountain top.

    I'm sure I will miss many things about living in South Florida, but it has always been a dream of mine to someday move to Hawaii. I didn't think it would probably ever become a reality, but now that it has, I feel like a little kid again, waiting for that next great adventure to begin.
     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, its only a threat if you believe that Super Bowls belong in South Florida. By no means is anyone entitled to having a SB. You are acting as if South Florida is somehow inherently worthy of the event.
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Heck, now that I am moving to Hawaii to live, I think all the SB's should be played there. Perhaps once I move there, I'll start a petition to build a stadium in Hawaii and make it the permanent site of every SB game. How about that?

    Also, if the Dolphins ever do decide to relocate, the Hawaii Dolphins would be a fitting name for them if they decided to move the team to Hawaii. There are plenty of actual Dolphins in the ocean around the Islands and the name would certainly make more sense than the Indianapolis Colts or St Louis Rams.

    Of course this is all just a joke and as I told DJ yesterday, my arguments for or against the SB coming to Miami are now irrelevant. Since I'll be living nearly six thousand miles away by the time the 2015 SB is played. All I know is that the game will start around 1:00 PM Hawaii time and I will have plenty of time after the game to go out and have a great dinner and a walk on the beach after it is over, no matter where it is played.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The fact that your moving should not keep you from wanting what is in the best interest of the city you came from and your team.
     
  36. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I will always want what is best for this area since I have lived here for over 50 years. You and I only differ on who should pay for what is best for this area. I like and respect you and therefore I just don't want to argue with you about this issue anymore. I hope that eventually you get the stadium you want here in South Florida. Passionate fans like you deserve to get a great stadium and a great team and I hope you get both of these in the coming years.

    I was fortunate to have those things for many years as a Dolphin fan and I want you to also experience a Super Bowl winning team in the very near future. If the game is played in Miami, that will be great for you and the rest of the South Florida community.
     
  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why would it make a difference if the SB is held in the city you reside in or not? What personal benefit are you receiving?
     
  38. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    See....you say Finkle is Einhorn...and thing I look at your Sig...and I go...wait....no way....cant be
     
  39. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But the SPAM!

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4
     
  40. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Obviously you didn't read my entire comments. I don't care where the game is played and I clearly stated that in my comments. I even stated that I was merely joking about having the game in Hawaii, but I guess you just didn't get it.
     

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