1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

ESPNs top 5 young QBs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nappy Roots, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Personally I'd go Luck>Wilson>Tannehill, RG3, Kaepernick..... with the latter three battling it out to emerge as #3 and potentially compete with Wilson for #2. I don't put Newton into the mix b/c I'm not convinced he'll ever develop the consistency needed.
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    I tbink some are really under rating Wilson here. I think he's up there with Luck, honestly. I could be overrating him, though.

    RG3 is third for me, followed by C-Kap and Newton. Than Tannehill. All four are close, though. I think you can make an argument for either one to be third right now.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He sure was taking shots again last nite..he's a little floppy in his running style..
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I've never seen two young qbs that close in the intangibles dept and the playmaking dept in one draft..I'd say their almost neck and neck in those depts..Wilson is the best in the NFL at extending the play..
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    That's not how the football business works rock..

    Of course you don't tell your players to tank, if your the GM, you take the proper measures..
     
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I agree. Wilson is barely shy of Luck. Like a ball hair shy. He has all the potential to become as good as Brees but with the athletic ability to ruin a perfectly good defensive game plan.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I would of benched starters and went with young guys..hey, if your starters give you 0 and 7, then just go full metal on youth...perfect built in alterior motive.
     
    NolesNPhinsFan likes this.
  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Luck, Wilson, CKap, Tannehill, Cam.
     
  9. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Thats high praise, TP.


    I might have to take a closer look cause I don't see Wilson carrying an offense or team on his own. He has a good d and a good run game and 30 attempts is usually enough. U think he could go for 4000+ and 30+ TDs if he had to?
     
    jdang307 likes this.
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    just because you would take Tannehill over Wilson does not mean that you think Wilson is a bad quarterback.
     
  11. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,149
    9,868
    113
    Dec 9, 2012
    Ryan Grigson was hired AFTER the 2011-2012 season.
     
  12. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    That's what I'm thinking. I like Wilson a lot. Just prefer somewhat mobile, but tall stand in the pocket QBs. Seeing Drew Brees tiptoeing just to see the field and then thinking Russell is even shorter yeah I'm prejudiced. But I wouldn't mind having RW as a QB.
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    yes.... but he currently doesn't have to b/c of Seattle's great D and strong ground game like you mentioned, so why unnecessarily increase the risk associated with a second year QB when you can win without doing so? However he did impressively throw for 26 TDs on only 393 attempts last year [with another 4 TDs and 30 FDs on the ground], and if a game has to be put on the shoulders of a young QB he'd be one of the first I'd look to b/c he's unflappable, plays smart, can keep drives going with his feet better than anyone in the game, and has the level of accuracy, touch, poise, and pocket presence consistent with what I'd expect from the next Drew Brees. By the time he's a seasoned vet I think he could throw for close to what Brees averaged the past 5 years- 4900 yards and 38 TDs. Wilson already has 6 4th Qtr comebacks BTW. That's as many as Luck and 4 more than Tannehill.
     
  14. NolesNPhinsFan

    NolesNPhinsFan New Member

    2,457
    135
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    We'll always have those meaningless wins though!
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    What?
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    That would be interesting to study. Who's the best at extending the play. I think he's one of the best, but I'm not sure if he's the best. I think Romo is probably the best.

    He he is a play maker, though. He seems to always make the right decisions.
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Actually, I believe Russell Wilson's 6 fourth quarter comebacks are tops in the NFL the past 2 years.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,120
    37,638
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    That may be the order that you and some others would select them in but Id still argue that Tannehill is better then any of them except Luck and frankly I dont think theres a huge difference outside of the pocket awareness that Tannehill still needs to take up another level. Griffin has been awful this year (and ill grant him hes been on an awful team and coming off injury) but hes still been awful. Part of the reason that team has been awful is his performance just like they were better last year because of his performance. Newton hasnt made the playoffs and probably wont again this year. He also struggles when hes forced to be a passer. This passed week they told him he can run again and he was more effective then the previous 2 when they really wanted him to be a pocket passer. He doesnt have the accuracy or ball placement and struggles reading coverages too much to make consistent plays from the pocket. Kaepernick has had games where he looked as Tannehill did in his first game vs Houston and doesnt come close to having the accuracy Tannehill has. Ive seen a few games where Kaepernick is 4/13 in the 3rd quarter. Wilson is just a winner. Stat arent always pretty but hes a winner. Point is you can point to a flaw or 2 or in some cases 3 for any of them.

    When you point out how some players made the playoffs and made the Super Bowl you have to account for how the team got there. Wilson was ok last year but the defense and run game really carried them. Kaepernick made a Super Bowl and had some real nice games but Alex Smith had that team at what 8-2 before the switch last year?
     
    Ducken likes this.
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    As a rookie, Wilson saw 1 TD per 16.2 attempts (including rushing).... and a 1st Down per 3.00 attempts.

    Last year Brees had 1 TD every 15.6 attempts..... and a 1st down every 2.82 attempts.
     
  20. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    To be fair, Seattle ran it for 500 more yards (not counting Wilson's yds) and 35 more rushing 1st downs (not counting rushing 1st downs for Wilson).

    Seattle only passed the ball 43% of the time, while NO threw it 64% of the time.

    Not trying to rag on Wilson, I think he is great, but I don't believe Wilson would have performed close to the numbers you listed if the roles were reversed.
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    To me, the measure of a good young Qb is leading a team to the playoffs.

    Granted it is not ALWAYS about Qb play, good ones though, seem to find a way to get it done
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    The problem I have with that is that making the playoffs is very team based. yes, having a great quarterback can help, however if the team isn't any good, then it doesn't matter how good the QB is.
     
    Ducken likes this.
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    IDK I think Wilson's stats are pretty impressive.
    -Tied Peyton Manning's rookie TD record [26]...... plus 4 more on the ground.
    -2nd highest rookie passer rating in NFL history [100.0]
    -broke Marino's rookie record for TD-INT differential
    -3rd highest all-time rookie completion %
    -most rookie game-winning TD passes in the final 2 minutes or OT since 1970.
    -rookie postseason records for QBR [102.4] and single game passing yards [385]
    -rookie record for consecutive completions [16]
    -most 4th Qtr comebacks the past 2 years.
    -beat Brady & Rodgers as a rookie
     
    Boik14 and djphinfan like this.
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    nor do I think Brees would've duplicated his 2012 numbers if he were a rookie. I was just showing that when Wilson's number was called he played close to a veteran Drew Brees level, which I thought was darn impressive for a rookie.
     
  25. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    What research? I figured that out in my head in about two minutes. What stats did I even post?
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  26. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

    4,796
    2,760
    113
    Feb 27, 2012
    Miami
    IMHO, I think it should be Luck-Wilson-Tannehill-Kaepernick-RGIII.

    Luck is the best of the lot, though he has issues. He has some accuracy issues and is very INT happy. However he has off the charts intangibles and is impossible to bring down. He'll only get better.

    Wilson is a very smart QB, however he has severe limitations. Some mention he has a bad oline, however he has to hold onto the ball a lot because he is a deep passing QB. He struggles on quick passes. He needs to extend and hold onto the ball to be successful. As he is right now, he is a very good QB that needs a strong running game and defense. Right now I don't think he can be a 40 pass per game, air it out-shoot out QB. I also don't see Drew Brees in him. Though all this could change, he can certainly get better.

    Tannehill IMO has the potential to challenge Luck for the lead. Though he has the handicap of having the least amount of experience. If he has a solid oline and dependable running game, I think the close competition with the top would be more apparent. He has great upside.

    Next two IMO have some concerns.

    Kaepernick, in my very humble and certainly not necessarily factual opinion, is not a very smart QB. He certainly has very impressive physical tools, but I just don't see the mental aspect. I see a QB with great physical tools that is getting fed, baby bird style, the mental aspect of the game by Harbaugh. They give him a simple game plan so his physical tools shine without getting him overwhelmed, and the team gets away with it because it is so massively talented.

    RGIII is the hardest to predict of the lot. He's certainly smart, and has the tools comparable to Kaepernick, however there is something that doesn't quite sell you. As he is right now, he needs to be able to run the ball to get his passing game in rhythm. If reduced to only a pocket QB, I think his skillset is severely diminished. Why, I don't know because he most definitely has the capability to be a pocket QB. There is something not clicking right now for him.

    A couple more years will really fill out the picture with this lot.
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    THill would be #5..atm...keep in mind RG3 and Wilson's bread and butter, the read option, will lose effectiveness as D's catch up to it. THill just happened to come out in a very very deep Qb class

    3 yrs from now we shall see what is what

    I've watched Wilson play since his NCSU days, he'll adjust, that dude just makes throws happen
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I don't think you need those kind of stats to win games, critical timing to pick up first downs is how this player will stay on top if he has the running game by his side, if it goes absent, he will pick up the slack..only drawback is taking the pounding, except this guy understands that thoroughly and is so elusive, he takes precise angles that not only gets himself out of trouble, but also gets him extra space to either reset his platform, or slide..
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Tom Brady.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I believe Irsay knew Polian was in his last year and was going to transition..Irsay imo, made the call from above to his front office, they made it very public that Polian was scouting Luck in multiple games during the season...when players hear stuff like that, it's over..they know there's nothing to play for.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    You'll know, compare say Andy Dalton (playoffs twice) to Andrew Luck (once)

    Caretaker/game manager Qb vs a Qb who makes things happen and wins ballgames in the last 4 minutes
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Ryan has to get so much better at his footwork, it's gonna take a whole offseason of intense training.
     
  33. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,120
    37,638
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Yes he did all those things and they are impressive feats. He also:
    - Has a 12-13 win team around him after years of high picks. They have a pro bowl or near pro bowl level player at every important position save WR (and even Sidney Rice has his good year every 3 or so lol)
    - Has the best D in football to back him up. Makes the game a lot easier when you know 17 points probably gets you a W and youre not slinging it 40x a game. He also gets to practice vs Sherman and Browner every day. That'll teach you ball placement with the quickness. And vs Clemons and Irvin which will teach you a play clock real quick regarding when that ball has to be out.
    - Has a running game he can lean on. Lynch will take the ball 35 time if need be. Even with Bush we couldnt say that.

    I dont want to make it seem like Im punishing Wilson for being drafted by a good team. Hes a real solid QB and Id be cool with him as well if we didnt have Tannehill. I just dont think that if you had Tannehill in that situation he wouldnt spit out the same or better results and that if Wilson had been drafted by the Dolphins that his numbers would be as good as Tannehills.
     
  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    I know it's a lot easier for me to come in here and say it after tonight's game, but I think everyone is giving Luck a little too much credit. I'm not saying Tannehill or any of the other QBs are better, at least not yet, but the way everyone is talking in this thread you would think he is consistently throwing for 300 - 400 yards with 2+ TDs. I'm just not seeing elite QB production out of Luck yet. He's playing well when it counts and winning games which makes him a very good young QB for sure, but I just don't think he's quite deserving of the accolades being given. Full disclosure: I was an adamant Suck for Luck guy.
     
    Mainge likes this.
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He's also undefeated at home...hmmmmm
     
  36. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,120
    37,638
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Put the same team around Tannehill, Jeffy. :)
     
    NolesNPhinsFan likes this.
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    The link.
     
  38. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    Tannehill usually gets overlooked in the promising young QBs discussion because almost all of the other guys experienced more success right away, both individually and team-wise. When you give the least experienced QB in the draft the least amount of weapons and pair that gift with an inconsistent running game, his rookie counterparts will probably perform better, win more games, and receive more publicity, and that's exactly what happened, so his exclusion in these types of debates is understandable. Personally I feel like it's too early to really even judge/rank these guys.
     
    gunn34, Berezo, Boik14 and 3 others like this.
  39. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Now this is a great post and something I can agree with. Nicely said.
     
  40. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    why thank you...it's about time my wisdom received some appreciation.
     
    Paul 13 likes this.

Share This Page