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2013 Broncos, can they go undefeated?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by steveincolorado, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They have a legit shot I know that much. Peyton is playing as well as any Qb in the history of the league so far this season, I think losing that awful choke game to the Ravens really lit a fire under this team. They have a good defense, good coach and Peyton, they could go undefeated. I don't think Peyton choked last year, he scored plenty of points for his team to win, their defense blew it, not Peyton. Hes even better this year and I can't see an AFC team that is better than them.

    ....I think Peyton would say otherwise in public but an undefeated season and a Superbowl would erase any of the talk about him being a playoff choker, no one could say a word about him and the post season if he did that...I think it matters.....
     
  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I think it's pretty evident he struggles in the playoffs compared to the regular season, but I also think defenses play with more energy in the playoffs so that factors in... Still don't think he deserved the Super Bowl MVP, Dominic Rhodes and Addai sealed the deal for the Colts more so than Peyton.
     
  3. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    Pats at home in November might give them fits, but other than that, I don't see any threats on their schedule. Superbowl might be their loss depending on the matchup. Peyton is playing with a vengeance right now.
     
  4. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Peyton will choke as usual.
     
  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Peyton is just at a different level than anybody else (save maybe Brady)

    Clady gets hurt, who cares? Von Miller and Bailey out so you know you need to score 24 plus every week, they don't even rbeak a sweat. It's incredible.

    Espescially for this Peyton Manning fantasy football owner
     
  6. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    They've been dominant most certainly but the Raiders, Ravens, Giants and Eagles have a combined total of 4 wins. So they haven't exactly been playing teams in even the top half of the league.*
     
  7. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    It's not called Invesco anymore.....lol
     
  8. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Don't forget, they are on their third starting center also.
     
  9. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    It's possible that they go undefeated but like others have mentioned....They have yet to play a good team. The four teams they have played have a combined 4-12 record.
     
  10. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    The "studies" that have been done on it pretty much debunk the idea of "clutchness" and "choking." Over a large enough sample size, players' post-season or SB performance will generally match pretty closely to their career regular season performance. Since the level of competition goes up in the playoffs, some dropoff would be natural, and there are some players whose career arc limits their playoff appearances to the middle and letter part of their career, after they have become established players, thus makign their post-season numbers look better than their career regular season numbers. Every player in every sport will have some bad games and good games. If you have the bad games in the post-season early in your career, you will be labeled a choker or not clutch and it is hard to overcome that public perception. If you play well in those games early in your career, you will be labeled as clutch and people will continue repeating that long after you have had any such "clutch" moments. There are numerous examples in virtually every sport. For example, people generally tend to view Tom Brady as clutch and Peyton Manning as a choker in the post-season. In truth, Manning has the higher post-season passer rating and Brady's post-season numbers are worse than his career regular season numbers. In his last 12 post-season games, Brady has posted a passer rating below 70 5 times. That has happened to Peyton only once in his last 12 post-season starts.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The whole "Manning chokes in the playoffs" is pretty ridiculous considering that two of his early exits were at the hands of a Patriots team that was cheating.
     
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  12. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    It's been quite a while since he has performed poorly in a playoff game.
     
  13. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Undefeated, until they play us in the Playoffs. The fact they are undefeated gives us the emotional motivation needed to pull off the upset of the year.
     
  14. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only Superbowl Manning has won he posted 39 QBR in one game and 70.5 overall. But for Bob Sanders he's still winless. This, for one of the most prolific passers in the regular season.

    Brady hasn't been great lately but the drive in 2007, after being harassed all game, to score a go-ahead TD. Yes they lost, but it took a once in a millennium catch by out of the league Tyree to do it. But that's on the Pats D (assante also dropping a game ending INT).

    During the year when Indy played them, they also had a chance to end the perfect season. Did anyone expect Peyton to pull that one off? Not I. And he didn't.

    It's a team sport. But the 5 yard DB contact rule is enforced because of manning whining at yet another playoff exit.

    People forget how many games were won by Vinaeteri's leg, and who had to get them to that point.

    Peyton had his during during 2006. When he beat the Patriots. I'll give him that. But that's about it. Reche Caldwell couldn't get it done for the Patriots :pity:

    Football in hand. 2 minutes to score a TD. Who do you trust more? I'll go with Brady. Too many times I've seen Manning's red forehead on the sidelines looking dejected.

    Manning is good, really really good. Stats are stats, but he doesn't have that Git-ur-Done killer instinct. Just never seen it. Case in point. Eli Manning. he sucks. But he did just enough to win it all. Escape a sure sack to throw a hail mary, etc. etc. Stat lines don't reflect that.
     
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  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Would you take Eli over Peyton?
     
  16. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Just looking at the schedule - there are four major hurdles: at Indy; at NE; at KC; and at SD. Of course, in the NFL, they could lose any game. But, the fifth hurdle is the possibility of losing a late game as a couple of people indicated.

    It's still way too early to talk about it, imo.

    That said, regardless of who they have played, they have the best QB in the NFL and I would currently put them #1 in power rankings. Even over SD.
     
  17. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    There is a difference between performing great in the 1st half of a regular season game or in the 3rd quarter when your team is up 28-7 than doing that in the final two minutes of a playoff game or SB.

    Everyone should know this from their own experience. Different things happen to the body and mind under great pressure. If you took the top 50 golfers their skill sets really don't differ that much and if you just threw them on any course any one could come out on top (esp. if it were an exhibition and they did not know the score of the others or even that they were in a competition). But, put them on the back 9 of the final round of the U.S. Open with 20 yard fairways and deep rough - completely different story.

    I don't think Peyton is a choker; but I do think Brady has been much better in the clutch (and, the whole "Pats cheating" thing - while wrong and appropriate punishment - is way overblown, imo). Even the SB losses were not really on Brady.

    Personally, I think Manning is the best QB in the NFL and I think he and Johnny Unitas are the two best QBs ever. However, that does not mean that Manning is the best in a clutch moment (but, I also don't think just "clutch" can be the measure - so the idea the Elway was the greatest ever because of his clutch play is a misnomer; although he was also over-hyped and over-publicized as Marino was equally as good if not better in the clutch. It wasn't his fault he had a D that was the worst). I'd actually say that Marino and Montana and Elway were the "coolest in the clutch" QBs in the past 30 years. Prior to that, Roger Staubach was basically John Elway ver. 1.
     
  18. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    All great players will have some great moments and some bad moments. Over time the proportions of these in the playoffs or SB will be about the same as during the regular season. But when the sample size is small, they don't necessarily equalize. Brady is no better in the clutch than in the non-clutch. His playoff numbers are worse than his regular season numbers. His September/October numbers are better than his December/January numbers. His numbers in blowouts are better than in close games. Etc. He's good in "clutch" situations because he's good, not because he's "clutch."

    One of the things about Brady and the Pats that has been most annoying/frustrating to me is that they so often screw up late in close games only to get bailed out of it by getting another chance. Last night's game is an example. On a critical 4th and 1 play, Brady muffs the snap. That is a collossal mistake that could have (and maybe should have) cost them the game and subjected Brady to ridicule. They even give up a huge deep pass a play or two later. But the defense held and nobody is talking about how Brady nearly choked the game away. In the '06 playoffs Brady throws a critical interception down 8 with 6 minutes left in the game, but the defender fumbles the ball back to the Pats and the Pats went on to win. In the '11 playoffs against the Ravens, Brady throws a critical interception up 3 with 7 minutes left. But the defense holds and the Pats get the ball back. Brady goes three and out and gives the ball right back to the Ravens who march downfield only to have Billy Cundiff miss a 32 yard chip shot that would have sent the game to overtime. Of course, the "tuck rule" fumble against the Raiders. Etc.
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I dunno how people define clutch.

    Elway had a record 47 come from behind wins in his very long career.

    He didn't win (82 loses +1 tie) a total of 83 games. So, out of 150 games his team was losing in the 4th quarter, he "only" won less than 1/3 of them....and that's a record.
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think another question is "Are the Jags going winless?"
     
  21. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    I don't think they do. NFL is too difficult and that team is too smart not to start resting starters later in the year.
    With that being said, they are the first team in recent history which i wouldn't "mind" going undefeated.

    I like Manning, GOAT in my humble opinion. I will not debate this because that's not what this thread is about. Championships dont always define a quarterback, and we as DolFans know that better than most.

    Again, don't think they will, but won't mind if they do.
     
  22. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Drugs are bad.
     
  23. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Yes.
     
  24. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    http://www.footballnation.com/content/elway-may-lose-his-title-comeback-king/3032/

    According to pro football reference, Marino actually holds the record. A few of Elway's comebacks were disqualified
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    H.E.L.L. N.O.

    But his clutchness has two rings to show for it. Play mediocre for 17 games, rely on Defense, play pretty good in the playoffs, and then pull off the most improbable drive of all time.

    Peyton doesn't own a drive on that level!

    Agree.

    When the odds are against you in big games, you git er done. Tiger Woods is a prime example. One of the best golfers of all time. Never won a major from behind. Let's say another good golfer exists, wins half the majors Tiger does, but does so usually from behind, on the last 9 on Sunday. Just closes the gap and pulls away. That's clutch. Tiger is dominant. Yes there is some blending but that's the gist of what I define clutch.

    You can play 3 quarters of crappiness, rely on your defense and special teams, yet when the 4Q comes and the team needs a drive from you, and you go down the field and get your team in position to win and you win it. That's clutch. Stat line will be ugly, downright gruesome, but you got it done. and people remember it.

    It's Kirk Gibson game 1 of the WS. One at bat. One Homerun. That's the stat line. Nothing memorable about that stat line. But oh man what a swing! This, from a SF Giants fan!

    Robert Horry. It's insane a 7 ppg player would hit that many memorable shots in that many key situations. Win 7 championships out of 16 seasons on 3 teams. He is the poster boy of clutch. Dormant regular season games. Big shots to keep his team alive in the playoffs (or put them in a strong position).
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  27. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Clutch, to the extent such a thing exists, can't/shouldn't be defined soley by coming from behind. But if it did, Manning would have to be considered clutch. He has 38 4th quarter comebacks and 50 game winning 4th quarter drives. According to Pro Football Reference, he has more than Elway despite fewer opportunities (i.e., fewer losses where he failed to come from behind).

    Whether it is truly "clutch" to play the 3 quarters of crappiness and then come from behind depends on how often you do that as compared to how often you fail to do it. If you pull that off twice in 100 tries it isn't clutch.

    The Kirk Gibson HR is a poor example. Kirk Gibson hit 255 Hrs in his career. One of them happened to come in that moment. He only played 21 post-season games in his career, so that is a pretty small sample size. He certainly didn't hit HRs in every post-season at bat or anything close to that.

    Robert Horry made some big shots. But how many big shots did he miss in his career? Nobody remembers those. Virtually all of Horry's "big shots" were 3 pt shots. His playoff 3 pt % of .359 is marginally better than his regular season percentage of .341, but still not particularly good. On any given 3 pt shot, a shooter of Horry's level will have about a 35% chance of making it. It is not a miraculous event. Horry had a lot of big shot opportunities because he played on a lot of great teams with multiple HOF players. He was a nice role player on those teams, but hardly a true poster boy of clutch. http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2005/06/sideshow_bob.html
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clutch exists, to argue it doesn't is to argue that there are players who don't shrivel in high pressure situations. Without Yin, there is no Yang. Peyton Manning is the king of the regular season. He's the Atlanta Braves of football. He might win another one though this year, but if he doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised. Getting knocked out of the playoffs each year is more expected than him winning it all.

    Kirk Gibson is an excellent example. One at bat. One homerun. Game 1, 9th inning, world series. On a knee that no longer worked. With no warmup. The situation matters more than past performance.

    Horry: You're just against the idea of clutch it seems. Sure he's missed shots. Who doesn't. But he made more shots to clinch games crucial games than most ever get to in their career.
     
  29. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    The studies say clutch doesn't exist. Sure, there are players that fail to perform in some high pressure situations. But those same players do perform in others. And they also fail to perform in some non-high pressure situations. A good hitter in baseball will get a hit somewhere around 30% of his at bats. There are virtually no hitters who, over an extended number of such at bats, hit appreciably better in high pressure situations than non-high pressure situations, or vice versa. Same for shooting in basketball, etc.

    Getting knocked out the playoffs is expected of virtually every player. Only 1 out the 32 teams (approx. 3%) of teams/players will win the Super Bowl (i.e., not either fail to make the playoffs or get knocked out the playoffs) in a given year. Dan Marino got "knocked out" every year. Tom Brady has been knocked out for 8 consecutive years. Joe Montana got knocked out in 11 of his 15 seasons.

    Again, Gibson did not only have 1 at bat. He had 92 post-season plate appearances and failed to hit a HR in 85 of them. In baseball terms, his 21 game post-season career is a tiny sample size. Nobody would declare someone the best HR hitter in baseball simply because he was leading the league in HRs after 21 games. Nobody crowns a team the champions in baseball after 21 games. In 2003, Alex Gonzalez of the Marlins hit a game winning HR in the bottom of the 12th inning in game 4 of the World Series to prevent the Marlins from going down 3-1. Pretty clutch, huh? Gonzalez has a career post-season batting average of .169. Even a blind squirrel . . . .

    Yes, Horry had many more opportunities for "clutch" shots than most players. He was fortunate to be on a Rockets team that had the best player in the league and another HOFer during Michael's Jordan's hiatus. He was fortunate to be on a Lakers team with the league's most dominant player (Shaq) and another sure-fire HOFer during its heyday. He was fortunate to be on a Spurs team with Duncan and Robinson and maybe a few other HOFers. Etc. But the fact remains that he was not an appreciably better player during big moments (playoffs) than he was during the regular season.

    Imagine you give 100 people each 10 coins to flip, with a $10 million prize to the person who gets "heads" most often and decapitation for the person who gets the fewest heads. Those are some pretty high stakes. That is some high-pressure coin flipping. Most likely someone (and maybe more than one person) will get 10 heads. Is that person a clutch coin flipper? And most likely someone will get 10 tails. Is that person a non-clutch, choker of a coin flipper?
     
  30. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    And then there was 1... Looks like no one is moving into the neighborhood this season. Unless the Chiefs pull of the craziest season of all time, I don't see it happening. Denver D has a lot of holes that you don't notice because of all the points their offense can put up! Who would have ever though though that the Chiefs would be the last remaining undefeated team in the NFL. The NFL is a funny game.
     
  31. Sleepy

    Sleepy Well-Known Member

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    Indy beat Seattle, San Fran and now Denver.
    How were we able to beat Indy?
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    we weren't sloppy and didn't beat ourselves against Indy.
     
  33. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    That was a great game. Glad to see the Doncs lose. Also glad to see Vontae shut downwhoever he was guarding all night - might be the best game I've ever seen him play.
     
  34. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Word is he held up the post game locker room celebration until he called Grandma.
     
  35. DisturbedShifty

    DisturbedShifty Member

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    Denver losing is the only thing that makes our loss palatable. Now I don't have to hear the Denver homers chirping about how no one is better than their team.
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  37. CantinaJack

    CantinaJack New Member

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    Ya Vontae is a few bricks short of a house, but he can play... Remember that pick six he had at home and then shushed his own crowd? What a dummy...
     

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