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A bruised, battered Tannehill for Dolphins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, have to go into work, waiting to see if Speed Bump is still the starting RT.

    THill is taking such a pounding it is absurd, Philbin, if he keeps Speed Bump out there is going to go the way of Tony Sparano.
     
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  2. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Getting McKinnie seems very un-Ireland-like. Gotta think Philbin was on this one.
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    If I had to guess who aside from the GM made the move, my guess would be the owner. This seems like a very owner-like move.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think someone in the personnel department has a hard-on for McKinnie. Whether it's Ireland or not, I don't know and it doesn't really matter. The Dolphins flirted with the idea of signing him in the off season but decided they wanted Jonathan Martin to be given a chance at left tackle.
     
  5. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    has anyone heard how this is gonna play out? I'd hate to believe we are gonna move Martin to RT and have Mckinnie play LT only to see Martin on the bench while Clado continues to start...
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We're assuming that he'll go in at LT while Martin moves to RT but the thing people maybe aren't taking account of yet is that the Dolphins may sit McKinnie for a few weeks while he learns the offense. So we could continue to see Martin-Clabo, or perhaps they'll move to Martin-Garner.
     
  7. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...report-dolphins-trade-for-ot-bryant-mckinnie/


    Which is what many of us have been stating all season. Tannehill is HAVING to rush plays and does not have the opportunity to survey the field for second and third options as he either doesn't have the time, or is feeling pressure, real or imagined, to get it out after 1 or 2 seconds. The sacks and hits are taking a huge toll on his psyche.

    Now Contrast that with this:

    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...lbin-mr-ross-doesnt-pay-me-to-get-frustrated/

    I lost a lot of respect of Philbin with that quote. I don't think he is handling the pressure of the losses very well and that statement was dumb. We're not talking about a veteran QB who has tons of experience and a reliable OLine who occasionally gives up a sack. We're talking about our second year QB, who is being rushed through his timing of plays, and who is getting the Hell beat out of him on almost every pass play whether sacked or not. Those hits still take a toll. Stating that Tannehill will be fine until he isn't is naive at best and negligent otherwise. Hell, even Rex Ryan knows better than this.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Seems like I haven't seen a Jake Long thread in quite a while. For a stretch those threads were popping up week after week pretty much every time Long screwed up in some way.

    He must be performing well.
     
  9. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    But....really what do you expect Philbin to say?

    "Yes, absolutely, if Tannehill continues to get hit at this pace...means..."Bad things Man.....Bad things...."

    [video=youtube;HU8gvF6WCIk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU8gvF6WCIk&list=PLB0EFBB51BD5BB470[/video]
     
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  11. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    well his QB just had a season ending injury. So in the grand scheme our line must be doing something better"we get our QB hit in non-fatal ways, yeaaaaaaaaa"
     
  12. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Didn't PFF have him ranked as the #11 tackle either last week or the week before?
     
  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    It's like a city mayor talking about cops getting shot at who lack proper manpower and equipment saying something like, "Well, they're fine until they aren't. Yeah, we could take some extra measures, but hey, this comes with the job. Until they get shot or killed, they're fine."

    Not a proper response IMO. I expected an offensive minded guy to understand and place more emphasis on the importance of and protection in winning games.
     
  14. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    First time on here, sour taste made me register and comment. Everyone can blame a right tackle or what not, but the tackle didnt cause a pick 6 on the second play after coming off a bye week. Point one point two, an nfl qb should know how to look off a safety to throw a flag rout. You will not win games throwing ten yard passes, all defenses are doing are sitting 15 yards off the line, and you wonder why you cant run the ball. Why is daniel thomas starting when lamar miller came in and broke off 2 big runs then was on the bench, i like daniel but common and some point George Burns (philbin) you have got to put people who want to win. Personaly i think matt morre needs his shot he came in and did well after henne got hurt and then he got put behind a rookie qb. Moore will make the throws down the field tannehill is scared to throw. There have been times when tennehill has looked like he could be the man but after losing two games you win on paper, heres a stat your defense gets a turnover on thier side of the field two weeks in a row, you settle for two fg which one was missed? defense s doing there job but you cant expect a defense to play great when the offense consistantly does three and outs everyone gets tired. Sit tannehill down until he can read a defense and someone please knock sherman and filbin out.

    Filbin is the only coach who does not get mad sad or talk to any of his players unless they are celebrating too much, thats bs tannehill has cost the game go over talk with your rookie qb!!!!!!!

    So this week when tannehill gets sacked 4 times and we have the new RT then who are you going to blame? qb are qb's they get all the credit and take all the fall, make him a TE and catch the ball like he first did at a&m
     
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    #12 after this week
     
  16. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    Yehhh...uh huh. First time posting under this Name maybe.
     
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  17. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    so your saying that a new qb in tampa who prolly only knows 40% of the playbook now can put up more yards and take the hits with an even worse line and only one reciever over tannehill who has a somewhat decent (better than tampa) and multiple recievers and glennon can make his progressions through recievers but tannehill cant?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2016
  18. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I promise this past weekend put a sour taste in my mouth im tired of watchin use lose games and not get beat, theres a difference we list the past two and got beat by NO....needed to get some frustrationg out
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think #12 in their Overall rating. I don't know how much I trust it though. When it comes to their ratings I try and cobble together my thinking based on the pass block efficiency statistics (which are objective, unlike their grades) and the run block grades. I'd use something more objective in proxy for run blocking if there was something available, but there isn't. Jake Long is right around 49th to 50th percentile in pass block efficiency, and in the run blocking grades they have him 7th or about 9th percentile.
     
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  20. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Maybe not on the RT, but one reason we're running quick routes that defenses see over and over on tape is because our quarterback doesn't have time for longer-developing routes to take place a lot of times -- and he's still trying to make plays to move chains. The throw/pick-six is on Tannehill, but the circumstances as to why we're running a lot of short routes, especially early and late in games when defensive players are most pumped and are coming off the line like hellfire, set up plays like that. And we didn't change anything, offensive line-wise over the bye. So defenses know our QB isn't going to have a lot of time and can take chances breaking on short routes. Like I said, Tannehill made the throw and has to take responsibility for every INT he throws, but if you don't think there are contributing events as to why our short routes are generally covered pretty tightly, then you're missing a lot.

    As a QB, you're sort of in between a rock and a hard place if when you make a quick throw, every once in a while a DB is going to jump the route, but late in the game when you decide to allow a mid-range route to develop, your arm is clubbed while cocking for the throw within 1.8 seconds.

    Call me an apologist, I guess.
     
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  21. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Wow. Been drinking a lot of soda today, Mr. Herlihy? :shifty:

    You're wrong on every single point.

    Tannehill threw the Pick 6 because of pressure and because the LT had just gotten a false start penalty putting us in a passing situation. If he had more time in the pocket he may have thrown elsewhere. As for looking off a safety. That was the nickel db. The safeties weren't in the play at all.

    Miller had been the starter until this game. The coaches mixed it up this time and we had our best day rushing. Starting Thomas helped to some extent.

    Matt Moore would be worse behind this line. He lacks athleticism and escapability, as well as down field accuracy. Tannehill started slow, but over came the pick 6 and threw 3 TDs.

    The Defense gave up almost 50% of 3rd down conversions. That is not a great defense. That is terrible against a team like the Bills.

    Philbin should throw a tantrum on the sideline? Yeah, that'll help. It's done so much for the 1-6 Giants when Coughlin throws a tantrum every single game...

    Tannehill played WR for a single season at Texas A&M, not TE.

    Have another "soda", Mr. Herlihy...
     
  22. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    He's still not doing well, but even then he's performing better than the current gruesome twosome. Way way overpaid in any event.
     
  23. Big Phin

    Big Phin Active Member

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    I don't think anyone will say that Tannehill is perfect by any stretch, but you have to see the potential that's there, right? He's made some bad choices, wrong reads, etc. The way he gets the crap knocked out of him, I can see why some of those things happen. With an average offensive line, I personally don't think we're having this conversation. That's just my opinion though.

    Hey, I like Matt Moore ... as a backup. Do you really think he gives this team the best chance to win?
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if I agree with that. I think people made up their minds about how well or not well Jake Long was doing based on a few games at the front of the schedule where he had to take on guys like Calais Campbell, John Abraham and Demarcus Ware.

    Well, those guys are pretty dang good pass rushers. Especially Ware who is an animal, one of the front runners for best in the business. He starts playing the likes of Dan Skuta, Jason Babin and Whitney Mecilus, all the sudden he's pass protecting a hell of a lot better. But then he also faces Greg Hardy and Osi Umenyiora, both of whom are dangerous pass rushers, and he does well there too.

    And in the mean time he's a hell of a run blocker. He's on pace to have like a +22.9 PFF overall grade, highest he's had since 2010. Best of all, he's only missed 8 snaps this year.

    I think the Rams would certainly tell you they're getting their money's worth.
     
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  25. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    IIRC, Long had a tripping penalty that negated a 63 yard TD last week. We'll never know how many points Martin and Clabo cost us, as EPA isn't tracked for individual linemen. Like I said, still better than the jokers we got. I can only wish Colabo missed every snap in the past month.
     
  26. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    The way the o-line has shaken out and the decisions around it tells me I don't know jack **** :lol:

    I was feeling fine with this starting 5 to begin the season and thought not getting Long back was a good thing
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's true, he did have a tripping penalty that negated a long touchdown to Tavon Austin. That's not cool and he deserves criticism for it. But at the same time you have to acknowledge that he's 32nd percentile amongst offensive tackles in penalties per snap. The fact that one of them negated a 63 yard touchdown sucks but is kind of subject to randomness.

    I don't know, maybe the guy busts. But he's not doing so despite what seems like a lot of Dolphins fans that want him to bust. He got paid some money but it wasn't Joe Thomas money.

    He got $12 million worth of full guarantees, even in the event of injury. If he makes it through the entire 2013 season without taking major injury that bumps up to about $16 million guaranteed over the first two years.

    At that point in the third year there's a break. The Rams will get the chance to decide if they want to keep him for two more years at a price tag of $18 million with $4 million of it guaranteed, and an additional $1 million in playing time escalators.

    If the worst case scenario happens and Long takes a major injury in 2013 the Rams will have thrown $12 million at him for 7+ games of service (it's 7 full games now, still going strong). I think the Dolphins paid him something similar in his final year here. If he makes it through the year they'll be paying $16 million for 16+ games of service at worst and 32 games of service at best.

    Essentially the Rams have him on a two-year, $8 million per year deal. I don't think that's bad at all. I don't think that's way overpaid. I'd rather have him here with the team right now than have Jonathan Martin doing poorly at left tackle and Tyson Clabo doing even more poorly at right tackle.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Tyson Clabo definitely fooled me into thinking he was a better pass protector than he was. But two guys I wanted over him at right tackle were Sebastian Vollmer and Doug Free. We never got a whack at Free because the Cowboys and he agreed on a pay reduction, but both players are having good years according to the PFF stats and grades. I wanted Jake Long back though. I thought the $8 million a year price tag was fine. And I think Miami had an offer in with him that was competitive, but their bedside manner scared him off.
     
  29. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Long + Martin is inifintely better than Martin + Clabo or any sort of combination of McKinnie + Martin + Clabo.

    I agree with your assessment. I think we made him a solid offer but he wasn't happy with the direction of the team. No clue if that's on the coaching staff, the GM, or the owner.
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Have you looked around the league this year? The OL is about average...

    We've played 6 teams, how many of them have OLs that would do any better?
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I just can't believe you actually think this OL has been average. If they'd been average they wouldn't be looking at benching players or acquiring other players in mid-season trades. So even the coaches disagree with you and at times I think the coaches have been about as delusional/defensive as you can get with some of these guys.
     
  32. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your joking right?
     
  33. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Phins OL is NOT average. Calling that unit below average is a false compliment.
     
  34. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that they've given up one of the highest sack totals and rank as one of the worst units in run blocking?
     
  35. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Have you watched the OL this year?
     
  36. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Vollmer I didn't like missing out on, either in the draft or last year. We took Pat White instead.
     
  37. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Jake Long is definitely missed- my best guess is that the Dolphins FO and coaches, maybe Dawn Aponte and Joe Philbin, rubbed him the wrong way. Maybe Jeff Ireland pissed him off, who knows. Regardless, he bolted to St. Louis for comparable money and there was a certain "FU" feel to the whole thing. Regardless, we sure could use him now, no doubt about that.

    As to the current tackles- I don't recall seeing, ever, Miami Dolphins OTs get basically run over like they have been the last couple of years. Aldon Smith steamrolled Jonathan Martin last year, and I still question his balance, foot/eye coordination and overall athleticism. Mario Williams just about threw Tyson Clabo back into Tannehill on that fateful play last Sunday- those are just two examples.

    I have my doubts about Tannehill, still, case in point the Henne esque pick six on Sunday. But I'm not going to throw him under the bus because his offensive line is a human sieve. Tannehill can certainly be good, but the question is can he be great, and that'll be hard to judge as long as he barely has time to get off his throws.
     
  38. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I am not yet completely sold on Ryan Tannehill, but I don't think he is getting a fair chance to succeed either. Miami's offensive line is no where close to average. You can take the best offensive linemen we have, that being Incognito and Pouncey and they are the closest thing we have to average or above average. There is a lot of controversy as to how it affects a young quarterback to come into the league behind a very bad offensive line and the effect a constant pounding has on that quarterback. I don't know that to be true or false but I do know it can't be good and it has to slow that quarterbacks development. I know someone on here did some research and showed that Tannehill gets rid of the ball as quick as any quarterback in the league and the fact he is getting pounded to the extent he has been shows that he isn't getting the time to develop a rhythm and timing with his receivers. Now we can only hope Mckinnie will be an improvement.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I remember saying something prior to the season to the effect of it being ironic that in Jeff Ireland's first year here, he put the cart before the horse by drafting a left tackle before he knew he had a quarterback worth protecting, but now when they are pretty sure they have a quarterback worth protecting they decide he doesn't need to be protected.

    I still find that ironic.
     
  40. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Agreed, and in my opinion the biggest eff up of the entire off season was not resigning Jake Long. I'm still surprised that people were saying that there was no problem with the OL when we were 3-0, just because we were 3-0. It don't work that way.
     

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