1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Wake: We are as close as we are far away

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts

    http://www.thefinsiders.com/blog/20...ike-it-is?_ga=1.4964019.1659806294.1346324620

    Good commentary from Wake, and Inocgnito points out he was signed by the Bills on a Wednesday, and played that Sunday.

    Hope we see the same from McKinnie and Martin switch.
     
  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    We don't have elite impact players at positions of leadership - safety, linebacker, quarterback. Until that changes 3rd and 10 will continue to be a problem at both sides of the ball.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Wheeler is an impact player at Lb.

    Like that Wake mentioned ST's, key part of the win vs Atlanta that has regressed the last two games, especially in kick coverage.
     
  4. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    Great point made by Wake. He's not wrong. Hopefully McKinnie can play this weekend. How hard is it going to be to be better than Clabo? Not very.
     
  5. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    The basic problem is the offensive line, and a lesser issue has been key injuries, but all teams have those. Look at the Broncos OL against the Colts, and they already lost Ryan Clady. The Pats were without Gronk, Hernandez and and Welker for the 1st five games and now at least Gronk is back, but they just kept chugging along. Plus now Wilfork is gone and I think Mayo, too.

    But the Fins OL- what a mess. At least Tannehill hasn't been physically disabled yet. The crappy OL has excacerbated RTs issue with locking onto receivers, messed up the timing between QB and WRs (as hartline admitted to iirc) and our running game sucks. We'd probably be 5-1 and a MUCH better team if the OL were set. Time for this team to bring in 2 guys for the OL- one who knows how to draft OT talent and one who knows how to develop OT talent. This whole year will get flushed down the bowl because the OL sucks. What a shame. Where's Dallas Thomas? Where's Danny Watkins? Where's Will Yeatman? Where's Nate Garner? Between the OL mess that has been going on for years and the simplistic, unimaginative offensive play calling, I can't help but question the FO and coaches, Ireland, Sherman and Philbin most definitely included.
     
  6. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Can't get off the field on 3rd and 10, that's on Wake and the defense.
     
  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    He's an impact player but he's not elite. As a matter of fact I'd say Wheeler is a downgrade from the linebackers we had last year.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Which is what he mentions, as a player he can only take responsibility for what he and his unit is doing, Clabo and the OL are simply not a part of his responsibility.

    Also he mentions as a .500 team, Sunday is basically Opening Day of a 10 game season.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    You can say whatever you'd like, did see Wheeler seal a game in Indy.
     
    305 likes this.
  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,652
    25,565
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    With regard to the original quote from Wake: Was he wearing a turtleneck and a backward kangol hat as he said it?
     
  11. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    Did you see wheeler miss the 3rd down tackle at the end of the buffalo game to let them get the first down and run the clock down?
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Sure, so Williams could sack Tannehill twice more?
     
  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL


    Makes sense. So we don't have to worry about critiquing any part of the defense then? Cuz I mean, it would of just led to the same thing from our offense. Lol
     
    padre31 likes this.
  14. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    what? There's 10 games left? imagine that.
     
    305 likes this.
  15. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    What kind of counter argument is this? So your argument is Wheeler made the right play just to protect Tannehill from Williams instead of having more time to win the game? Gotcha.

    I still say Wheeler is a downgrade from Dansby, and I wasn't a fan of Dansby mostly because he was getting paid like a prime Urlacher. If we're not blitzing we're not using Wheeler, pretty much useless.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Or ST, 2 missed FG's in two 1 pt losses and a dummy penalty that lead to opponent points is also a problem.

    This to me is what Wake is saying. our season can go either way.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    And we upgraded our most obvious weakness, offensive tackle.

    Most pertinent fact to emerge from the article is Incognito played the first week he was picked up with less time than McKinnie has to prepare and Richie played quicker at a position that has more to learn
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts

    First of all, Ellerbe replaced Dansby, secondly and do try to think about this:

    Clabo had given up 2 sacks already, assume Wheeler makes the tackle, and they make the FG.

    Thigpen has a nice return, what are we looking at:

    -Williams going for the sack hat trick
    -Sturgis had missed his last two long range FG's heading into presumably another long range attempt

    Wheeler making that tackle would still run into those facts
     
  19. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    If we had more time our playbook is more open than just settling for obvious passing plays. That was the beauty of the last drive against the Falcons, we had about 3 minutes left to the game and they didn't know what we were going to do next, if we would be aggressive or use the clock. I thought about it enough, I think you're trying too hard to defend your stance that we should have just lay down. Wheeler makes that tackle we're looking at a longer field goal attempt by Carpenter who isn't the most clutch kicker around. Granted he has been good so far for the Bills this season but knowing his past I rather see him kick a GW 45 yard field goal than a chip shot at the 10 yard line. Also who are you to say that those instance WOULD have happened regardless? That's like saying well Tannehill would have thrown a pick six anyways if he had more time.
     
  20. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

    1,318
    638
    113
    Oct 22, 2013
    So CAL
    YOU FORGOT ONE OTHER POINT.....TANNEHILL GETS THE BALL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!! no matter what we had the chance to win and he fumbled!!!
     
  21. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,059
    3,514
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Once again I'm impressed by Wake.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    Exactly what makes Wheeler an impact LB? To me he is a very average LB on a very average Dolphin defense. Most of the time his name is mentioned when he makes a tackle on the TE he was covering. Of course the tackle was made AFTER the TE made the catch. The Dolphins defense this year is not as good as the 2012 defense and I think a big reason for this is that Wheeler and Ellerbe aren't as good as Dansby and Burnett.

    The only real impact player, week to week, on the Dolphins defense is Wake and because of an injury this year, even he hasn't been able to make any big plays in recent weeks.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  23. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    10,823
    2,214
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    But the loss to Buffalo is about as good as shooting ones self in the foot they are one behind them in a tie atm and one behind New England so .500 is as good as being behind at this point. Digging our own hole.:sad:
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Would be true IF that were our only game with Buffalo, we win gm #2 we would be back to even if all things are equal.

    Losing to Baltimore, SD or Pitt could potentially be more detrimental as they are our competition for a WC slot.
     
  25. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    10,823
    2,214
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    A win in New England would at least set us at .500 with them this weekend but that seems like a extra large wish right now.
     
  26. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    13,057
    8,875
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Wheeler's been our most impact LB the past 2 years. Correct in that he isn't elite, but it's rare to see all around WLB's that are strong in pass rush, run stopping and coverage. We have 2 of 3 at least. Haven't checked after the last game but Wheeler was top 5 last I looked in pass rush efficiency, run stop % and tackling efficiency. He's been very good at what this team wants him to be....clogging up the gaps. It leaves him pretty vulnerable though when he has to drop back from the gaps.

    Ellerbe has been absolute crap for us so far though and deserves the scrutiny.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    This defense was talking this offseason a lot, about being great and whatnot, so far, their performance hadn't been up to par

    I wish I didn't have to see or hear any of these players right now, cause I literally want to call them bad names.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    What does it mean to be ranked #32 in total tackles as a defense.?
     
  29. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    That they're not on the field as much as other defenses?
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I'm sure right, I mean were 13 the ranked in defense, I wonder if our TOP is out if whack.
     
  31. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

    23,698
    39,847
    113
    Sep 7, 2012
    Hattiesburg, MS
    We've also had a larger amount of injuries than previous seasons it seems... Soliai and Wake haven't had the same impact as a result and Ellerbe and Wheeler both have either missed games, or stretches of plays as a result. Same for out DBs...

    Getting Ellerbe back for the Pats game should give us a boost.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,620
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Most of it is scheme-related in my opinion. Kevin Coyle hasn't done a good job preparing or making in-game adjustments this season, that's the root of the problem. Going from a hybrid scheme last year that utilized "heavy" under, over, and bear fronts to more of a traditional 4-3 scheme this year hasn't worked out very well as Miami's personnel are not well suited for that. I think Miami is 1 for 2 on the LBs, but even then Philip Wheeler hasn't been as impressive as I thought he'd be. Kevin Coyle's scheme does a lot that works against Ellerbe IMO, plus he's been injured. The run defense has been about a push, and even though OV has 3 sacks in 3 games, he's more of a guy you should be playing situationally - if anything, he's a stop gap to Dion Jordan at this point. Miami lost Vaughn Martin for interior depth, released Marvin Austin, and brought in Isaako Aaitui, who is just a guy.

    His insistence on sugaring the A gaps IMO has hurt Ellerbe and Wheeler as they're both not particularly adept at playing coverage. Where they line up though, even when they don't blitz, is a natural detriment to getting them back into space (see Darren Sproles' field day in week 4).

    Personally, I think this offseason, regardless if Joe Phibin is here or not, Miami would do well to look at defenses in Baltimore, Indianapolis, Kansas City, and San Francisco. Miami has an elite pass-rusher in Wake, and another that's more naturally suited to coming off the edge as a 3-4 OLB in Dion Jordan, they need to use that. Olivier Vernon is also pretty valuable when he stands up as well as he's surprisingly athletic and can drop into zones. It also makes it easier to align certain guys to get the matchups you want. Think of the ways you could utilize Jordan and Vernon on the edges (long-term) and you still have Wake and Jordan/Vernon in the short-term.

    I miss the 3-4, and I think Miami's personnel would be better suited for that, for the most part. Philip Wheeler would stick out like a sore thumb if you made the switch, but guys like Odrick, Starks & Soliai if they're brought back, Ellerbe, and Misi all have experience in the system. That's a trade off I'd be willing to look at and there's a slew of free agents to be that are from 3-4 teams.

    If I'm Joe Philbin, that's the first move I make on the staff next year - replace Kevin Coyle with someone who runs the 3-4. Then I'd take a more hands-on approach to the offense, if not run it myself.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  33. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,620
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    It is. I think Miami only holds the ball for like 27 minutes per game on offense. That doesn't do favors for the defense, unless you're putting up touchdowns like the Rams in the "Greatest Show on Turf" days. Miami isn't doing that.

    The defense has taken a step back from 2012, and if you look at a lot of statistical categories, it's a BIG step back from even the 2011 team.
     
  34. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

    3,560
    968
    113
    Apr 19, 2012
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Is burnett an impact player right now ? Because that's who wheeler replaced. Show me the downgrade.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    more time on the field for the defense would compute to more tackles no?
     
  36. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,620
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'd have to see what the stat was measuring. Was there a link? If it's purely for possible tackles made versus actual tackles made, I could see Miami being that low. They miss a lot, how many times have players run out of bounds and not been hit? How many players gave themselves up after a catch or a QB scramble, etc.

    As far as Miami's defense, Miami is not 13th ranked; they're 21st in total defense (372.2 ypg), 20th in points per game allowed (23.3 ppg), 25th against the pass (269.3 ypg), and 15th against the run (102.8 ypg). None of those categories are good, and only one is even top half, barely.

    Miami doesn't stay on the field long on offense, which contributes to the defense being on the field more, and when they are, they're giving up more overall yardage, which I'd guess in terms of hidden yardage allowed, the defense is equally negatively effecting the offense's starting field position, which goes back to scheme, which goes back to Coyle, and now I'm rambling again.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  37. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Our passer rating as a defense is 10th and our Yards per carry is tied for 12th.
     
  38. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,620
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'm surprised at the passer rating. Given who is in our front seven, the YPC average should be a lot better than it is. I know for a time last year, Miami actually had a top 3 run defense and had the best YPC against average in the NFL. Then the Tennessee, Buffalo, New England games blew that up. Then when Misi got hurt, it fell out of the top 10 in total rush defense entirely. I think it's only as low as it is this season because the Saints game is a misnomer. Miami killed them defensively against the run, but New Orleans didn't have to run to shred Miami.

    As a whole, the defense in 2013 is not very good, and it's a step down from last year, which IMO, can be attributed to the scheme. I know injuries have played a part in it, but I'm pretty sure Miami has been out-gained in every game this season, except for this past week.
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    The team is good enough to win 10+ games, but if it's the nature/destiny of them to play sloppy like we've seen of late then we're right back to seasons of 7-9, albeit an underachieving one this go around. With how minimal the level of disparity is among the league, we can't continue this sloppiness, leaving plays on the field, and spotting our opponents points and expect to win a lot of games.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    It is hard for me not to blame the coaches. Especially Jim Turner.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.

Share This Page