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Who takes the hit???.Philbin or Leadership on team???

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    How so? Did you see what Hyde's team source told him?
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Going to call doubtful on that.
     
  3. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    So CK, any speculation on what these additional things might be? It's hard to take the Incognito's seriously, given their enormous lapse in judgement lately by taking to social media
     
  4. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    After listening to Joe Philbin today, I really don't get how some of you want this man fired. He gave you all the available facts that we have at this time, showed strength to brush off questions from the media that would be detrimental to the current investigation, and gave an emotional speech on how much he cares/loves trying to make the Miami Dolphins a first class organization. There isn't anything FACTUAL out there right now to piece anything together. Ross is having an outside party run an investigation of his locker room and Philbin is 100% on board in this investigation. What more do you want from them? They are dealing with legal issues now regarding Martin and are taking all measures necessary to gather all of the facts. If you want to be mad at ANYONE at this point, be mad at Dawn Aponte. She didn't want to pay Martin his salary and thus mommy/daddy took offense to that and this is what you get.

    You can't tell me you watched the PC with Philbin and didn't think that the man has class and genuinely cares about this organization. What else do you want from Philbin himself?
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I honestly think some of the stuff posted by Incognito's dad could be true. Stuff like Martin having a documented mental health history, possibly being in the drug program, possibly having contemplated suicide, etc.
     
  6. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    11-13 record as head coach.
     
  7. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Well, 12-4, a division title, and a deep run for starters... :shifty:
     
  8. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Judging by the post on FinHeaven it would include:

    Prolonged drug use by Jonathan Martin and Mike Pouncey
    A cover-up by Philbin and Ireland
    A swell of information gathered by "Zuckerman", Martin's agent, that would essentially disassemble the current organization.

    Did I miss anything?
     
  9. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    What do you think wil happen to Philbin and Ireland?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just saw that video of Rich and Pouncey...looks like double trouble to me.lol
     
  11. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    This thread has do with the Martin situation. I am not talking about record here but please it hasn't even been 2 years yet. I am discussing how he has handled this Martin situation so far. The fact is he wasn't told personally by Martin that there was a player issue during his phone calls/meeting this week. Only after the fact that he was put on the Non-NFL illness list that his "camp" comes out with these allegations and tapes from months ago. Philbin hasn't done anything to warrant being fired regarding this specific situation.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Drugs, violence, suicide, weapons, steroids. There are stories you could share from almost any team that would make an organization look bad. At this point there are multiple parties that have nothing to lose. Things could go anywhere.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  13. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    You asked why people don't like him and I answered.
     
  14. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough but this thread is about the drama of the week. We can discuss record in other threads and after a reasonable amount of time to judge that record.
     
  15. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Then that's their opinion. I'd strongly disagree... hence why I said I don't think anyone else takes a hit other than Incognito.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We shall see in one week how much his players want him to continue to be the coach, they have an easy out if they don't, and Ross will have an easy decision...
     
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  17. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Agree we travel short. Philbin keeping the locker room is crucial.
     
  18. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    Philbin is a smart guy. I'm sure that players may get quiet when he walks in the locker room but he's probably heard what went on. So he publicly cut Chad Johnson for dropping the F bomb but probably felt that racial slurs were ok if kept light hearted and isolated to the locker room. There will probably be videos of Martin partying with the guys, and joking and laughing. So I believe this media BS will blow over sooner than later but if the team doesn't finish 6-2 and make the playoffs, then Philbin probably gets one last year .
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At this point, I'm not sure how anyone has a strong conviction either way...this is very difficult to find the source..
     
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  20. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    At this point we just don't know enough to make judgements on either Martin or Philbin. Evidently Incognito has done something serious enough to be suspended and to put his Dolphin career in serious jeopardy. What Philbin knew or when he knew it we just don't know. One thing is for sure and that is this is no little matter and the crap has hit the fan over it. How ever this sorts out Ross will more than likely do whatever he needs to do to protect his own reputation.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    as far as we know, they players might resent Philbin for cutting Cognito..this could be the longest week in dolphin history..lol
     
  22. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    My stance on this is that, as the head coach, you have to know what is going on IN your locker room. The only reason you don't know what is going on is if you essentially detach yourself from that locker room.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wouldn't you have to have a snitch to know something like this, their surely not gonna be all out with the extreme joking around Philbin?? Or do you trust the leaders of the team to handle their business and check whoever needs to be checked, and if they didn't have proper leadership in place to do such things, who's responsibility is that?
     
  24. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what fuels the assumption that Philbin should be acutely aware of the interpersonal relationships of each, and every one of his players, but I've been under the impression, that Philbin in his 2nd year, had a rather full plate focusing on the "big" picture, the singular, "team picture", fielding the "team" each week, with a game plan in an effort for the "team" and staff, to find a way to the postseason.

    Understanding the limits his plate would place on his ability to spend time, discerning the personal relationships of his players, I felt it was wise when he adopted the idea of a Leadership Council.
    Particularly as it was the brainchild of the players, for the players, specifically to inform, and consult with him on individual player issues, before they get out of hand. Issues such as, well such as the one we face today. I'm not sure if other teams have a leadership council, but I would view this as having made a proactive attempt to prevent this very problem.
     
  25. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    How the Hell is Turner avoiding any blame in this situation? He is their direct supervisor and responsible for their performance and work environment. He spends more time with this group than anyone.
     
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  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    A year and a half into his coaching career that started with a raw rookie QB. What's your point? You hate Philbin, we get it.
     
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  27. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    It's not an NFL coach's job to be aware of every player's relationships. The whole interpersonal thing matters more for a college coach because he is still dealing largely with boys. NFL players ought to be men and thus behave like them and there is nothing improper about assuming that. And if they can't handle it, there's like 100 guys willing to do so.
     
  28. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    shiii...I JUST now got your user name...started watching The Wire recently, and even after all the posts I've read since, it never clicked haha. Totally offtopic, just had to comment.
     
  29. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    I believe many of the things were seeing, Incognito's suspension, official statements, attempts to contact Martin and/or his parents, are not moves of Philbin or Ross, but textbook instructions being directly overseen and ordered by the "NFL provided assistance" or legal team.
    Make no mistake, the ebb and flow of crises spawned, spent, and buried within the NFL's dominion is boundless and neverending.
    As issues across the league flare up, acquire legal representation, and roar across media channels gaining size like a spreading wildfire hell bent on raining soot on the deep luster of the NFL's glossy finish, they get routinely snuffed out, swept aside, and abruptly polished over with sensationalized subterfuge. Its like Disneyland, you never see the actual operations personnel, only Mickey Mouse and Minnie.
     
  30. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    Here's what should happen: let this play out and let the independent investigation do it's thing. Ross, through this entire episode, should be thinking and thinking long and hard. Are these the people I want in charge of my "company?" Are these the people that let this episode happen and is it worth it to keep them here after making my brand a laughing stock of the NFL? In the three years I've been here is there anything I should have done differently? And while asking those questions, let the football take it's course and at the end of the season and investigation make his decision then. Ross needs the time to properly think this over, meet with his legal team and advisers, see what if any role Philbin and Ireland had in this and go from there. This is Ross' moment to shine as an owner and take full ownership of his franchise. Is he up for the challenge? Or will he let the circus continue. He's to blame here as well. He kept Ireland, he signed off on Philbin, he writes the checks. Or he could just be a crazy owner and fire everyone and watch the season burn. I have no idea what to expect from him. What I do know is this whole "scandal" has made the franchise look ridiculous. Ross is most likely a proud man and he can't be thrilled with what has happened to his team. Honestly, if Philbin has no idea what's going on in his locker room and Ireland is clueless to this as well, then it's time to move on. I'm not a Fireland disciple. I think this franchise needs some longevity in the coaching ranks and front office. But if this is systematic and the NFL finds the GM, coach and higher ups knew of stuff or were just plain clueless, it's time for a clean break.
     
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  31. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Adam Schefter said on ESPN after the game that the league will find that the entire organization is infected with harassment all the way up to the upper management. Damn.
     
  32. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he went 7-9 last year, I'm pretty sure that's better than nearly every realistic fan thought we'd do last year, and we have had possibly the toughest schedule in the league this year and we got cheated against the Patriots and the NFL admitted to the mess up in Baltimore
     
  33. Mk2

    Mk2 New Member

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    This is typical hazing? This is blown out of proportion?

    “Hey, wassup, you half n—– piece of [expletive] . . . I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. [I want to] [expletive] in your [expletive] mouth. [I'm going to] slap your [expletive] mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face (laughter). [Expletive] you, you’re still a rookie. I’ll kill you.”


    As far as who is a fault. The buck would have to stop with Ireland. martin , your second round pick, misses days of OTA's for no reason. You don't reach out to find out what is going on, you don't ask an agent, when he does show up you don't get to the bottom of it? Ireland...bad GM is bad.
     
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  34. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Incognito was suspended in 2003 and 2004 by two different college coaches. Consistently named as one of the dirtiest players in the NFL by opponents. NFL coaches and execs didn't want to draft him because of his character issues coming out of college. And he hasn't changed one bit.
     
  35. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    The little insight I have on Incognito, being that I live in the Scottsdale/Phx area.

    Big recruit out of the west side of town at the time. Shunned my ASU to go to Nebraska. Has been a piece of work since day one and glad that he never set foot on campus. Got kicked out of Nebraska (which is really hard to accomplish) and then dismissed from Oregon without ever taking a snap. His dad is real piece of work well known among Westside high school coaches out here. He learned his bullying at the feet of the master.

    This public undressing of who he is will place him on the do not call list forever in any career.

    Having said that, I imagine all sorts of players on both sides of the race card are now trying to find a way to erase as many tweets, texts and emails from their history as possible.

    Welcome to the world of Millenial communications where nothing you may say, convey or write will ever be only yours.

    And at the same time, Martin has got to man up and handle this behind closed doors. If you want, go old school and whoop his ***. Your both 300 lb big boys. Don't go to the media. I'm starting to think this is America. Not surprised this comes out right after the Highschool football bulling incident from a few weeks past. But that's my opinion. Who knows what's really going on though. Feel bad for all involved with this.
     
  36. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    You misunderstood. He said that the league will find that Incognito was harassing people in management, not that management was harassing Martin and others. It's why he reported earlier that people all throughout the organization texted him saying they were glad Incognito is gone.
     
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  37. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to see anyone fired over this, because if they are, it will be over the accusations that are being made against them, and I'm not ready to concede anything. I trust my instincts, and they tell me Philbin, unknown in coaching expertise, "is" is a man of integrity and principle, and now is not the time to turn on him or your team, but support it.
    Seeing Wake questioned by the media turns my stomach.
    .
     
  38. Mk2

    Mk2 New Member

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    I agree Philbin is not at fault here and Wake should just simply say "no comment' before coming out and defending his pal Richie "king of douche bags" incognito. Wake's agent needs to tell Wake to simply stay out of it until everything is out in the open.
     
  39. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you are two steps behind. Folks are taking a hit for this now. Blown up or not, it is an issue that has made national and sport media today. No laughing will occur after this. I see no winners. But you can wish on.
     
  40. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you have to question the veteran leadership. You have to. I am a Dolphin fan and support guys like Wake, but the veterans let this get beyond the locker room and that let their coach down. I am not saying it isn't possible that things get beyond people and are not seen, but in general the locker room is the player's domain.
     

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