Not sure if this link will work because I don't have a subscription to the Sun-Sentinel (although I get an app on my phone that I can read), but I'll give it a try: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dave-hyde-dolphins-1105-20131104,0,6506269.column Of all the South Florida journalists, I probably enjoy reading Dave Hyde the most. Even in the article I've tried to link, as usual, Hyde gives good insights. However, I just find this bit to be somewhat disingenuous: Personally, I feel if player-on-player hate was being missed by the Dolphins coaching staff, that's an egregious enough oversight that everyone involved in team operations, but specifically the coaching staff, should be culpable. But was anything like this really going on? Was the environment in the Dolphins locker room, as Hyde puts it: "toxic"? Over the last two seasons, reporters have had access to the Dolphins players, they have their sources, and they have some access to the staff as well. And I have seen articles written -- and even the articles seemed good-natured -- on the Dolphins' veterans' "hazing" rituals (or rites of passage, if you prefer), what with the hair cuts like phallic symbols and whatnot. This week also wasn't the first time I've read about rookies having to pick up veterans' meal checks. And these type of articles go back quite a ways. I remember one article quite a while ago, mentioning Oronde Gadsden's habit of finding the restroom when the check was brought out. But one thing I haven't heard even the slightest mention from anyone at any South Florida, much less national, media outlet is anything at all resembling hate and more precisely an "atmosphere of hate" coming from inside the Dolphins organization. At this juncture, Incognito's been suspended and it's altogether most likely that he'll never play another down for the Miami Dolphins, yet no other player (unless I've totally missed it), anonymously or otherwise, has come forward and gone on record adding to or giving their own version of other player-on-player hate that's gone on. Now, as some have mentioned, bullying can be subtle and maybe there are others involved here where players know to be quiet, but I find it odd, bizarre, and fishy that until now, there really hasn't been any inkling in the press of player hate. What we find in the current locker room, from all indications, is support for Richie Incognito. And not only from the locker room, but even from past players like Jovorkskie Lane. Dave Hyde tosses out the question of player-on-player hate going on with an implication that the Dolphins' brass may have had their collective heads in the sand. Well, Richie Incognito's been with the Dolphins for more than a couple years now. Unless someone can point to it, never until this very episode has their been one hint of player-on-player hate reported from any South Florida journalist. Yes, it's the team's responsibility to know, but NFL teams are about as tight-lipped about anything as they can be. That's why we Joe Publics rely on the freedom of the American sports press to do their job. And to my knowledge, this kind of thing hasn't been reported at all. So to Dave Hyde's questions I quoted above, I think a fair response is: Player-on-player hate? And the media didn't have a clue? That doesn't pass the fishwrap test, not to me.
There isn't player on player hate. The guys in the locker room seem to all be close. You see it on the sidelines, you see it on twitter, you see it during locker room interviews. This is about Incognito and Martin. Incognito pushed too hard and Martin couldn't handle it and now he's throwing a fit. I haven't heard one interview from any player in the locker room since this whole thing started that would indicate to me that players aren't getting along. In fact, players are going out of their way to defend the culture of NFL locker rooms and talk about the brotherhood and family-like atmosphere that happens within their own locker room.
Yeah, the one thing I still don't get (well, there're probably lots of things) is the texts/e-mails back-and-forth between Martin and Incognito where Martin said he didn't blame Richie and that it was just the locker room culture. Was that pre-meditated to get Richie to feel more comfortable so he'd do something crazy... like go to Twitter raging against Adam Schefter... or was it genuine... and he's kind of rueful that his loving, lawyer parents are going to the nines against Incognito, but now he feels helpless to do anything because his parents have advised him to silence?
lol. There are so many reports flying around that I forgot all about that text exchange. Maybe Incognito made it up to save face? Who knows. Still so, so much that we need answers to.
Ironically, the way this story is being reported is more likely to bring the team closer together than anything else. You know the family member that everyone is a little wary of but as soon as people outside the family go in on them the whole fam come to their aid? That.
Why can't people understand that a lot of this stuff goes on away from the locker room? The stuff that goes on within the locker room that isn't really in question. Personal voicemails, texts and one on one harassment is where the damage comes in. Players on the team probably aren't aware, at least not to the extent, of what is/was going on. All they see is what goes on in front of them, which is probably fairly mundane and normal, hence their responses as such.
I see it the other way. The media has no clue about what was going on and instead of taking a cue from the players, the ones in a position to know, the media drums up all the controversy and claims the players are the ones in the dark. It's ignorant and self serving.
I said this before. It could make a great story if this happens. The team is a national embarrassment right now and they're being torn apart. If they can stand up, rally together and take their frustration out on the field it would be a refreshing story for us. Fact is, this is a chance for Joe Philbin to learn from the mistakes and clean up the issues and move forward as a team. The players need to act as well. Guys need to hold each other up and become leaders to others. It's almost like a movie script. The team is being ridiculed and buried alive right now, can they come together and shut people up?
One thing I was left wondering today while the media was talking to guys like Cam Wake and Mike Wallace was, where is Ryan Tannehill? I understand he's a young player, but when you're talking to all the other big name players, I'd like to know what the quarterback and leader of the offense thinks about all of this. In the end, a majority of our success rides on his shoulders. Maybe the Dolphins know this and purposely kept him away from the media? Who knows. Furthermore, this could be the perfect time for Ryan Tannehill to become the locker room leader we desperately need. For him to stand up and say "look at what we've become nationally, let's go out and prove that's not who we are." There are silver linings to this mess and to me that is the biggest one. Joe Philbin has to be the one to overcome and fix this, but someone in that locker room needs to step up too and become the overwhelming leader of the players. No one better than the guy who we are hoping is our franchise quarterback.
I do understand that. And maybe Jonathan Martin is the only person who was "threatened", although as I read the texts and then sort of watched the actions (the guys hanging out outside of any Dolphins facilities, Martin joining in pranks), it sort of comes across as to me as crass buddies just giving each other grief (albeit over the line), which I think is the way a lot of people are seeing it. Of course, a lot of people aren't seeing it that way, like yourself. But my point was more, is Jonathan Martin the one and only person "player-hate" has happened to? He's the only person that has been the recipient of hate? That seems unlikely to me. It seems like some other "weak" guys would have probably received similar treatment. And to that, the press would have gotten wind of that with their access to sources, especially when it can be based on anonymity, and there would be a story or two out there. Yet there's been nothing. Ergo, if Dave Hyde is going to be questioning the team about how they had no idea about any of this, and when you just stated that the norm is likely mundane, why hold the team to such a standard? If Hyde is going to do that, I think it's fair to ask the same question of the press, who cover these athletes basically year-round and use some of them as anonymous sources. That was my point. Seems like if the team should know somethiing by now, so should the press. And whereas the team isn't going to say anything because of the typical tight-lipped-ness of NFL organizations, the press has the responsibility to if they've been doing their jobs.
that's all fine and Good except that a lot of these guys spent time away from the locker room together, they would know.
I couldn't agree more and sort of mentioned some similar sentiments in other threads. For Tannehill, this is an opportunity. As a QB of this team, it seems now he should step to the forefront. Maybe he's doing it behind closed doors, but as he needs to be the face of the team, I kind of think it needs to be in public as well. Really, it probably needs its own thread. Have at!!!
Here is what does not pass the fishtest: On notice since April, but did not know until complaint was filed. On notice since 2004, but makes him a team leader. Did not know, therefore not culpable, therefore doing a good job, therefore should stay. That kind of logic you can only find on forums like this, and in Ross's office. No where else.
I believe this is exactly what has happened to Tannehill. The organization said stay away from the media, and if approached be tight lipped.
Maybe hes doing his job and preparing for Tampa Bays defense, down 2 olinemen, and he doesnt have time to get caught up in this ****? He may be leading the locker room behind closed doors, in the film room, and at practice (where it matters most)....getting worked up over stuff he cant control, and worrying about something that is for the phins PR, coach and owner to worry about is detrimental to his profession. He is the qb of a 4-4 team in the thick of the playoff hunt. I am glad to see he's not worried about this ****.
One problem I have with a leadership council. That thing is voted on and players are appointed to that. You don't appoint a leader. Leadership is something that comes natural to players. Was Ray Lewis an appointed leader? No. He was a leader for the Ravens from the very instant he set foot on the field. My concern is the Dolphins do not have a leader right now.
They're under the microscope now, look out for assault charges stemming from those hideous hhazing haircuts.
I do have to agree there is a little too much homerism going on here on the board, but that is expected in certain corners.....Jeff Ireland could commit an egregious felony in the middle of halftime on the field in plain sight of 70,000 at the stadium and on national tv and yet some here would say it never happened, it's lies, it's the media blowing the situation out of hand or it really isn't that bad - nothing to see let's move on. Whether or not something really bad happened here, someone is going to pay for this and most likely it's not just Icognito that loses his job. Ross was counciled by more than a few people to dump Ireland and he refused to do it. Many of the fans have begged him to get rid of that Parcells minion, and he refused to do it. So if Ross has this problem its all on him, and he has no one else to blame but himself, for his steadfast refusal to do what others called for him to do and that was flush Ireland down the toilet where he belongs. Ireland brought these players to the Dolphins and Ireland needs to be held responsible. It's like that in any job. Losing seasons are comparable to losing money in the corporate world. Ireland has losing seasons for 4 straight years and it could turn that way again this year. How many CEO's of companies get another year with that kind of record ? Especially in a business that other competitors have passed you up and are now having winning records while you still languish in mediocrity. Ross the time has come. DO IT.
What also has been put out there is that the team itself is just so leaderless that it elected very questionable people to the council. I think if Jake Long is here this never happens. We wonder why he didn't really want to be here, maybe that locker room atmosphere is one reason. I guarantee the NFL in it's own investigation will be talking to former Dolphins to get a sense of what our locker room is like, because they know that the present Dolphins will obfuscate as much as possible, and it's only those that are free of pressure from the Dolphins where they might find the real truth. Those same guys could also make life difficult for Philbin or Ireland and perhaps even Ross if they have axes to grind. That's why you don't treat players as meat like you know who does....it could come back to bite you.
The Miami Dolphins have become such a joke nobody respects this ball club and until Miami stops making the headlines for the wrong reasons the media will drag the dolphins through the mud and cause players and coaches to avoid the dolphins like the plague . Miami needs to clean house entirely and like ASOT just said Ireland must go . Whether or not something really bad happened here, someone is going to pay for this and most likely it's not just Icognito that loses his job. Ross was counciled by more than a few people to dump Ireland and he refused to do it. Many of the fans have begged him to get rid of that Parcells minion, and he refused to do it. So if Ross has this problem its all on him, and he has no one else to blame but himself, for his steadfast refusal to do what others called for him to do and that was flush Ireland down the toilet where he belongs. Ireland brought these players to the Dolphins and Ireland needs to be held responsible. It's like that in any job. Losing seasons are comparable to losing money in the corporate world. Ireland has losing seasons for 4 straight years and it could turn that way again this year. How many CEO's of companies get another year with that kind of record ? Especially in a business that other competitors have passed you up and are now having winning records while you still languish in mediocrity. Ross the time has come. DO IT.
Asot I quoted you and your post was right on the money . my only question is , if more negative stuff comes out does Ireland and Philbin keep their jobs ?
The fact that Ross has not come down hard on this FO tells me all I need to know. Dude is an enabler of bad decision making and thug culture. He is in on this mess and needs to go. The franchise and the city deserve better.
Oh you have got to be kidding me...and knowing our media holes...they find out..will certainly become public Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
I look forward to the NFL determining exactly what kind of culture exists in our locker room and off the field/facilities for that matter. I believe Ross will follow the recommendations of the NFL probably to the letter, which likely is going to result in a house cleaning we may suffer considerably from. I for one am willing to go through the pain if this team comes out stronger and better respected around the league, and more importantly with a winning culture. Go for it Mr. Ross! And for those wanting Ireland to take the fall alone, because he was a Parcells disciple, wasn't Dawn Aponte also a Parcells girl? Shouldn't she be equally responsible depending how this shakes out?
