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The reason Dion Jordan only took 9 snaps last night.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Paul 13, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    "That he is only around to rush the passer"

    This statement scares the hell out of me and floors me at the same time.

     
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  2. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Which brings me back to the comment that Ireland said after the Philbin hire , he said it was his job to get the players his coach wanted.

    He also was emphatic about what player he coveted the most from this draft , that was Dion Jordan.

    So ... what happened or went wrong? Something to be sure , maybe multiple things which is my thought.
     
  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, he is rated by PFF 23 spots ahead of Vernon against the run.
     
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  4. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    Dion not playing is like two premium pick players not playing. What production could we otherwise be getting from the 12th pick and the extra 2nd?
     
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  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Every OC from now on. "If Dion is on the field, audible to a rush"
     
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  6. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    3... including a pick 6 against the Ravens. He forced Matt Ryan into throwing an INT, Flacco into the Pick 6, and Glennon into the INT.

    A GD travesty he isn't given more snaps. OV is slow and always a step away from a big play but never quite makes it. Jordan gets there.
     
  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I do not recall exactly when I came across it, but I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) that Wake ranked somewhere in the mid-50's against the run last year for his position. Is this good? I am not sure. Honestly, I truly do not know.....

    It could be that early in Wake's career he was just behind some guys who had more stripes, but I do recall the knock on him regarding the run. He is a much more polished player now, but maybe differences in position (OLB to DE) made the difference? Not really an X's and O's guy. Hell, maybe he was fantastic against the run when he came into the league, but setting the edge and playing the run was one of the knocks. Maybe he just didn't get the reps to show otherwise.....
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sheldon Richardson and Keenan Allen..

    I supported us getting Dion, but if I'd known I could of gotten Sheldon at 12 (almost neck and neck with Dion) and Allen with my first 2nd, (#2 receiver on board, first round value) then I would of went that route.
     
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  9. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Exactly... for the BS that Coyle is stating we should have stayed put and taken Jarvis Jones, then used the extra second on a lineman. GD, I wish we had Nolan still, or a Ryan, or even Del Rio at DC. Glennon would still be ducking for cover.
     
  10. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    This is really where this coaching staff lost my support. Will Davis and jamar Taylor aren't playing either. They aren't hurt. They're not buried behind great talent. But the coaches won't play them. It's..disappointing. I went into the season thinking jimmy Wilson and Stanford would never see the field. I went in thinking Vernon would be lucky to get 9 snaps with dion Jordan around.

    You lied to me coaching staff, you lied

    Edit: remember when we all thought Nolan Carroll would get cut because of the rooks?! :pity:
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I never thought that. He has also played really well this season.
     
  12. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    At Oregon he played the run plenty well.

    Doubt he can play the run with his hand in the dirt as of right now, but stand him up and he would be able to play the run plenty fine.

    Absolutely pathetic that they think he is a one-trick pony.


    Funny thing is they ask him to cover Gronk on that one play, basically saying that they can line him up at LB, but they refuse to do that while the other team is running the ball? Give me a break.
     
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  13. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Worked great didn't it?

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4
     
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  14. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Because our run defense has been so stellar this year?
    PUT
    THE
    TALENT
    ON
    THE
    FIELD
     
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  15. CantinaJack

    CantinaJack New Member

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    not stout enough against the run. Also, they are hiding it, but the dude is holding his shoulder in obvious pain after just about every play.
     
  16. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    I'm not sure why this is a surprise. We knew this when he was drafted - that he was weaker against the run and that he'd likely play a specialist role. I'd like to get him more snaps too, but Jordan is really a pass rusher and short area coverage guy right now. I'm sure after a few seasons and adding some weight that he can be an every down player though.

    And I havent seen any indicatin of past shoulder problems. He still gets his arms extended, can raise them over his head, and seems to be moving just fine.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think anyone is arguing that's what was going to happen in the beginning.

    I think what we're saying now is:

    1. He can't play the run worse than we have.
    2. He's better than OV.
    3. Are the indictments against his play against the run based on his actual play or based on his size?
     
  18. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    Well we don't know how he practices, but I don't see him being able to set the edge against a 300lb OT right now. Give him another offseason, one in which he can actually participate, and I think he will be developed as an every down player.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I guess, but we also have a decent idea of how Coyle views rookies too. I kind of think (no evidence just a hunch) that the amount Jordan plays already is a testament to how good he is since Coyle seems to suffer from R.A.S. (Rookie Aversion Syndrome).
     
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  20. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    The greater point I'm getting at is that run defense is generally overrated relative to pass rush/coverage duties. It really doesn't matter if Wake--or, the player who's the topic of this thread, Dion Jordan--is good against the run. It matters if he's good against the pass. And he's fantastic against the pass and the opposing QB in general.

    Jordan appears to be very good as a pass rusher. I refuse to believe that he's so bad at run defense that it offsets his pass defense. I think Coyle is simply overrating run defense.
     
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  21. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I would like to see Jordan on the field more, his presence is not going to magically stop Wheeler and Ellerbe from missing tackles
     
  22. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nolan Carroll has played well??!! Is he related to the non-tackling, give up a huge play CB that EVERY SINGLE OPPOSING QB goes after every time? seriously? Have we lowered our standards after so many disappointing seasons. NOLAN CARROLL? His obvious lack of physical contact is only outdone by his lack of Ball skills.Carroll and Jimmy Wilson are always easy to find on the field because we see the back of their jerseys chasing someone who has just made a catch. NOLAN CARROLL?!! Never thought there would be a name that I would scream at the TV more than Channing Crowder for their HORRIFIC play...Nolan Carroll makes me wish we had J.B Brown back! I wonder why almost every Dolphin fan can tell you what number Carroll wears..we see it slinking off the field after another big play or penalty all game long?....Sorry for the rant
     
  23. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    No, but he sure might make some himself. He can certainly play the same position Trusnik does.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    so nine snaps a game is giving him that valuable experience?

    need to slap Coyle's mother in the mouth. - Richie

    If his shoulder is indeed that banged up, and that's the reason he is not playing, he should be on IR period.

    The way I see it... looking at that hybrid position, it's

    1. Jordan


    2. Vernon


























    3. Freeny
    4. Trusnick
     
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  25. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    Someone like peyton Manning would just audible to a run play when Dion Jordan is in the game knowing we are on pass defense. I can't believe they would tell the public this info. We might as well carry a big sign onto the field that says we are playing run defense or pass defense every play that Jordan is on or off the field
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You should try actually watching the games, instead of taking a preconceived notion.
     
  27. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I live in New York and have watched every snap of every Dolphin game for the last 15 years! What preconceived notions do I have? I can only judge by what I have seen...Which is a player thats gives up a ton of plays..every game. Do you actually watch the games??!!! Would I like him to be an ALL-PRO? ABSOLUTELY!! Do I root for him to make plays? Every snap! Do I watch the games??!! What plays has he made? Where? When? I should try to actually watch the games...Wow, Maybe I watch them too closely.
     
  28. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Coyle didn't really have a particularly articulate commentary on the situation, but it's really not that wacky that Dion Jordan is a Nickel sub at this point in his career. Coyle should have probably couched it in the idea that Jordan is focusing on rushing the passer and specific packages while he's learning, but him being in that position isn't bad or wrong.

    The Nickel package wasn't on the field much vs. the Bucs because they overwhelmingly ran 12/21 packages. I think they should have worked him in some in the base package, but at the end of the day it's hardly a crime.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    None?... would be my answer based on this staff's tendency to keep players uninvolved for the most part until they heavily know their jobs. The only thing that accelerates that is if there's a great positional need to get someone on the field.
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's not it either b/c he actually chose a WEAKER front 7 against the run. If he wanted to emphasize the run D he would've put Odrick, Soliai, and Starks on the field from Tampa's opening snap. If he did that, he could've easily had Jordan at OLB and it be an overall upgrade against the run than Vernon/Trusnik on the right side.
     
  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No worries I didn't read it.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    *fixed* :shifty:
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Wouldn't Coyle be culpable for that considering he went with a weaker RE/RLB duo of Vernon/Trusnik that invites the run and makes it easier for Tampa's Oline to focus on blocking Soliai and/or Odrick out?
     
  34. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I dunno... Trusnick might have the edge on this guy. Although, if we can roll him out there with that cart, he might have a future on our offensive line.

    [​IMG]
     
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  35. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    I won't say Carrols been bad, this year is the best of his career...but he still gets beat. Soon as patterson got hurt, Brady went right at Carroll and smoked him for an easy TD. Carrolls game against Indy was pretty iffy too. cant say much about the bucs game cause they hardly passed.

    If anything, Id say Carroll only seems improved cause Wilson is our defenses new whipping boy. I've said it before, I'd throw at whoever 27 is covering on every play if i were the opposing QB.
     
  36. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Weaker than what? Vernon is a good run defender so long as he's not playing a tight technique, and I'm not sure what the alternative to Trusnik is when the team doesn't seem to see or practice Dion Jordan at OLB in the base package.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not saying that Carroll is great at his job and not "upgradable". I just think for a 3rd cornerback on a team, he is playing pretty well. I would love to upgrade him, however I don't think it is going to be as easy and even if both of the rookies do step up, I think he is worth having back for a cheapish salary.
     
  38. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    i dont hate Carroll. Never have. his stone hands used to drive me crazy last season (Bills game..) but theres definitively bigger priorities to be concerned about. Why does Stanford play over Taylor or Davis? This is what kills me. I don't need Taylor or Davis starting but we won't even let them on the field
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The tandem of Vernon/Trusnik is weaker vs the run than Vernon/Misi... to the point of not being a strength anymore... to the point it could be viewed as inviting against the run... and is significantly weaker than what we saw last year from Odrick/Misi... which was a strength against the run... and uninviting to run against. Coyle didn't have to go weaker vs the run; he chose to. He could've gone stouter and forced a rookie QB to beat us. It wasn't until we were down by a few scores that Coyle opted for Odrick at RE but it was a day late & dollar short.

    I mean, honestly, Tampa was without a starting WR, their starting RB, a starting stud G, and had rookies at QB & TE. How do we do them a favor by not putting our best talent on the field in base D? With Misi inactive, Coyle filled the void with Trusnik? Seriously, with Starks and a handful of versatile hybrid players at his disposal that's the best he could come up with, Trusnik? He could've altered the scheme for the week and put the best talent on the field, slapped Tampa's run game in the mouth from their opening snap, messed with their game plan, and one-dimensionally forced their rookie QB to beat us. IMO we could've taken it to them but instead Coyle passively gave Tampa an opportunity to take it to us.
     
  40. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I always looked at him as another dwight freeney type. I don't think its because of his shoulder but rather that he's pretty one dimensional right now
     

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