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Players take on "go" and "go-go"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DePhinistr8, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The company I work for produces advertisements. We often include a different number that rings to the place of business we're advertising. We do that to track the effectiveness of the ad. Clients fight us all the time. They swear they don't need that because their secretary is trained to ask their customers how they heard about them. We had convinced a few, to let us do the number and let their people ask on the phone and at the end of the month we'll compare numbers. Without fail, the numbers from them were ALWAYS wrong. They were never right. Mostly too low, sometimes too high, but never correct. People think they can keep track of stiuff like this while going about other things like their daily work or cheering as a fan...and for the most part they cannot.

    It would take repeat watching of the game and charting to get an accurate take on this issue and I don't think anyone has done it yet. Maybe they have, but I haven't seen it.
     
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  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    A lot of teams do this. Dont think its a big deal. A lot bigger issues at hand IMO.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This has always struck me as one of those issues that fans will get the bit caught in their teeth on because (unlike most of the inner workings of football strategy) it is A) higly visible, and B) seemingly intuitive...yet players and coaches know a lot of things which make it not a very big deal at all.

    What I'm most disappointed about is not that the players and coaches continue to defend it. What I'm most disappointed about is that no matter how hard they defend it, not matter how much they explain about it, the fans simply won't accept their explanations, and in the mean time the media has made zero effort to seek outside opinions from respected (objective) former football coaches about it.
     
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  5. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    All I know is that I've followed it very closely for the last 3 or 4 games, and it certainly has followed the pattern.
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Unless its a 100% then its irrelevant.
     
  7. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    I guess I just don't understand why. Why have a particular cadence for a type of play? Why not let your QB change up the snap counts regardless if it's run or pass.
     
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  8. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I dont think there is any contention about the pattern existing.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  9. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Why? 90% wouldn't give the opposition enough of an advantage?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just looking for a good explanation.
     
  10. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    I mean for example, the sack by McCoy:
    He knows it's on "GO" given the situation of the game. He's probably starting to move as soon as he hears 'g', which can give him just that much of an advantage to Sloth Jerry. However if the count were on a 2nd or 3rd hut, wouldn't that give him just a slight hesitation and perhaps put Jerry in a more advantageous position to block better?
    Lots of hypotheticals I know..I'm just trying to make sense of it.
     
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  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Because it would be incredibly costly of the defense to quit reading the play with their eyes and react to something they heard on those 10% of plays.

    If a defense starts reacting to the cadence, and Miami changes it, a single play can turn into a touchdown. Run a play-action pass with the cadence "go-go" one time and if the defense is biting hard on the run every time they hear "go-go" then that play-action pass goes for a touchdown.

    I think I saw on twitter it might have been Keith Sims say that Marino snapped his cadence on two like 99% of the time.

    Again this is an issue that is BEGGING for coaches and players to weigh in on, but the problem is the media are having OUR coaches and OUR players weigh in on it, and the trust factor is just not there between the fans and our team.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    1. He doesn't know it's a pass based on the situation. The Dolphins had timeouts and plenty of time, and in fact 2nd & 18 is USUALLY a draw or screen.

    2. If he hardwires himself to take off on "go" because he thinks it's a pass, then he gives up a free 5 yards in a very critical situation if anything he doesn't expect happens.
     
  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I guess I just don't get, and still haven't read how this doesn't give the defensive line an advantage.

    Care to give a quick explanation?
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Thats exactly the point.

    Its literally impossible to know until the ball is snapped.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Also, I'm fairly certain they moved to this system because teams were picking up Tannehill's snap count.
     
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Well put.

    I don't think Tannehill is tipping the plays but I do think he needs to work on his cadence to draw more offsides and/or keep the D from timing him up.
     
  17. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    It isn't that he snaps it on 2 and either run or pass is the play. Its that Go is a pass and Go Go is a run. On a pass there are up to 5 players the D has to worry about getting the ball. In a run there is only one, they hear Go Go and get after the RB. Last game they did hand off to Clay three? Times, yet it was Go Go, then a pause, then Go and quick hand off. Miami's defense isn't scouting the offense, but I guarantee that if the D scouted a team that called GoGo for every so gle run, the safety would run up and corners and OLBs would bite down. As happened against the bucs.
     
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  18. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    McCoy is an elite DT, Jerry is average. Make sense?

    Off topic, I hope Philbin is fining all of the OL who allow sacks and don't have the decency to at least help the QB up. Jerry gets the QB killed and nonchalantly adjusts his pads like nothing happened. Makes me sick.
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think of it as one of the myriad details that could be coached and executed BETTER, but which individually might not be looked at as a big deal.

    Personally, I don't know how big a deal it is or not. I can see logically why it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I can imagine that. Miami coaches and players have all weighed in on it and suggested that it's not a problem at all. But Miami fans don't trust Miami players or Miami coaches, so that's not something that makes the issue die.

    I'd love to see other former coaches break it down, explain the cost-benefit of the way Miami does things (which I feel like I kind of already know, but then again maybe I don't). But our media people (self-included) either don't have the access to ask this (this is the bucket I fall into), or don't have the desire to do it.

    And the Miami fans seem to have no desire to accept the word of the Miami coaches or the Miami players...which I think speaks to a real problem.
     
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    But to make sure he would have to wait until there is a second 'g'.

    Honestly on that play, it looked like Jerry thought he would have some outside help.
     
  21. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I seem to remember the same type of response to the batted passes last year. As it turns out it was no big deal.
     
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  22. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    About a month ago, Omar Kelly said he asked a bunch of football people and all of them said it didn't make a difference. At that point I stopped worrying about it. Fans ***** about it because they always need something to ***** about.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its like the "staring down receivers" silliness. Fans want to think they can pick up more intricacies then they do.
     
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  24. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    From Tanny, quoted from the article:
    Seems like a legit answer to me. Why wouldn't the defense say anything if it was that obvious, they're all riding in the same ship. And I love that bit of cockyness at the end, as if their offense is unstoppable in practice.
     
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  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Then can someone please explain why This doesn't help DL? That way I can be on board with you guys and not think this matters?
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why would it help the DL? There isn't enough time for them to react. It could see how it could help linebackers.
     
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  27. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Because they instantly they know run or pass. The DL can play the run or pin their ears back.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Instantly?

    Think maybe you should try it.
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They won't know until the play starts.
     
  30. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Well as soon as the play starts instantly yes. How would they not know?
     
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  31. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    By the way I played defensive line. Obviously never got something along those lines. But I feel like if the QB said run or pass to snap the ball. I probably would of been a better player. Especially against the run.
     
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  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They know once the ball is snapped. It will take them about half a second to process the information. Thats not an advantage
     
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  33. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Heres where I think people make something so simple....into something wayyyy more complicated.

    Look...we ALL HEAR HIM SAY Go...or GO GO. Dont you think it would be insanely obvious to everyone on the offense...if that was allowing the defense an edge? TANNEHILL GETS SACKED A TON. If there was anyone who would be screaming for them to change the cadence....because it allows the defense to hit him more...DONT YOU THINK...he would change it?

    The only reason its an issue...is because our line sucks. Put it this way...why didnt it make a difference in the first half of the Pats game? Or any of the other stretches weve gone where our offense has been working.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    They would have to train themselves really hard to instantly react to GO or GO-GO, to change what they are going to do during the snap.
     
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  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I played defensive line as well. I don't think it would help. It only helped if they tipped it off before the snap count. Now if it is a two count, yea, it would help.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Because, if its really relevant and it really gives the defense that much of an advantage, then using it less than a 100% of the time gives the offense the advantage. Think about it.
     
  37. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    My problem is not the go-go = run go = pass thing.....its that we don't try to get the defense to jump offsides MORE often. I noticed it a couple times last game, which is nice....but i'd like to see a hard count to get 5 yards.
     
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  38. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I can see it helping linebackers.....if I hear the "go-go" meaning run, I am down hill fast....if its "go" I know its pass and I can get into coverage and start reading zones quicker. The running game is where itd hurt our offense, since guys can get downhill quicker, which COULD show ONE OF the reasons our run game is crap, among other reasons.
     
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  39. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Right....

    Hey..maybe they actually have found it works to our advantage some how. Think about it....if you are trying to train yourself to react according to Go, and Go Go...

    Then...when he said Go..are you instantly going into pass defense...but..Go Go into Run. In this league...there is no way in HELL..you are going to hesitate for a moment...waiting for the second Go. Just that ...slight twitch of a delay...can cause all kinds of wrong. He may say Go..pause a beat and say Go again...
    Or say GoGo
    So which Go are you goin on? Are you going to wait even a fraction of a second and try and decide, run or pass? You cant
     
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  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And you don't feel like if you were diverting your attention to discerning whether the QB just said "go" or "go go" that you would end up too distracted to read the things with your eyes that you need to be reading from the start of the play?
     
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