He said he changes the timing...just look at it on paper. Go are you pinning your ears back right there? Or are you maybe pausing one second to see if another go follows? GoGo Go..Go Go...Go There is no way you can process the information in your mind fast enough...and adjust your muscles to compensate. If you try...your all messed up. Its a non issue
Great explanation right here that puts this to bed: "Personally - I never thought it was a huge deal since ultimately, defenders are going to base their play predictions on their film study and the behavior of the offensive line and QB after the snap. Even if the opposing defense hears "Go" before the play, which some fans believe means a pass play is upcoming, the defenders are still going to pay attention if they see Tannehill extending his arm for a handoff to a running back if it's third and short. And if those defenders hear "Go-Go" before the play, they're still going to fulfill their coverage responsibilities, especially if the current situation calls for a pass play. That's because it would be extremely easy to exploit defenders who based their pre-snap predictions of the upcoming Dolphins play on hearing "Go" versus "Go-Go." All the quarterback would have to do is "switch up" his pre-snap routine and say, "Go-Go" before a play-action pass, and voila, the defense is left looking foolish as they over-commit to the run on a deep-passing play. Defenders aren't stupid, and they know that even if Tannehill uses "Go-Go" 80% of the time before a running play, they could get burned by a deep pass if they overpursued a fake handoff after hearing "Go-Go" the 20% of the time it's not a running play." http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/11/13/5101320/ryan-tannehill-address-go-vs-go-go-fan-concerns
I'm not trying to say that their jumping the count based on the count. Although they could based on the situation. I'm saying they get unnecessary information based on the count.
I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as the media and some people are making it out to be, but I think it probably makes some difference, as it is a game of inches and a slight advantage on a few key plays can make a big difference in this league. That said, I don't see the benefit to it. The Dolphin players know (or should know) if it is run or pass before the snap, so why have any kind of different call for run and pass plays? How is it benefitting the Dolphins?
Even the front 7. They arent going on a snap count as much as they are going on what their eyes tell them. Not what their ears tell them.
Exactly! And the people that are in that situation...are pretty much saying "no big deal, move on"...yet we're not trusting their word for it. I'm not blaming anyone. That's pretty much the situation Miami fans are in right now, where they feel like they can't trust what the Miami coaches and Miami players say. I just think it's sad.
And they are just being stubbornly distrustful.... TANNEHILL IS THE ONE GETTING CRUSHED. Oh I get it....Tannehill is so stubborn about his cadence, that he would continue to get crushed by 300 pound gorillas instead of changing. Come onnnnnnn mannnnnnnnnnnn!
Then you would have to train yourself out of it, because if another team just says "GO" all the time, the defensive linemen would always play run, even if it is a pass. Think about how much you have to train to do something automatically. That takes a lot of time and effort. It takes just as much time and effort to break you of that habit. Defensive linemen are too close to the action to take advantage. Linebackers could do better because they have more time to process the data.
I think it would be hysterical if they changed it from "Go!" and "Go-Go!" to "Pass!" and "Run-Run!" Especially if they then occasionally changed it up and ran on "Pass!" or passed or did PA on "Run!" Fans would be jumping off ledges for real. Just joking Nap...
Since I never play football my question is, why does there need to be a difference in the first place? What I found interesting is the fact Barry Jackson noted fans were discussing it. Which forum did he read it off of
To keep the defense from jumping the snap. If you know its always going to be GO, you can jump as soon as you hear GO.
I guess I agree with CK & FinD, in that for fans like myself it's just another piece of hay on the haystack that makes us question what the heck is going on with the team. Since it's hard to discern assignments of the DL and OL immediately during the broadcast, I find myself latching onto the idea that this "go" "go-go" issue (or non-issue) hurts the team in some way.
Ok, so how can there not be an advantage? As you see the ball snapped it doesn't take Einstein to figure out if there was one Go or two? These guys are expected to make split second judgments in the field, but can't decipher whether they heard one or two Go's? Just asking questions. Why not before you break the huddle change it up? This time we go on 3. This time we go on 1.
I coach soccer and there is a little game that the kids play during downtime at tournaments called head it/catch it. Basically one player lobs the ball to another and yells either "head it" or "catch it" and the other play has to do the opposite of what he yells. You would be surprised how hard it is for the players to do the opposite of what they are hearing.
Didn't see this posed. The original story from Barry Jackson had a lot more nuggets to it. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/14/3751963/miami-dolphins-ryan-tannehill.html
All I know is the Cadence and GO GO worked for two yards. This team is in denial because their brain trust is without a clue. There's no way they could have been that quick on the snap unless they knew the count. They were off the ball a third of a second faster than Pouncey. Several times I thought they were off sides but a frame by frame replay showed their timing was perfect with the snap!
Off topic, but wow, those comments from Hartline, and Starks, and even Jerry sure paint a picture of a locker room, that doesn't trust its coaches, or its system it seems.
hartline spoke about Ireland not hte coaches, Starks comments could have been about players and I don't really see how Jerry's comments had anything to do with the coaches.
Well... sure... but you get the point, I meant to say the comments dont paint a picture of players, happy with the coaches, and front office... no big deal. As for Jerry's comments.. For an offensive lineman, on arguably the leagues worst OL, after another dismal performance in pass protection, and run protection to say... that's the coaches job, not my job... is pretty indicative of him saying its not us... its what theyre asking us to do... It's likely his way of saying he's not thrilled with what they are asked to do, as opposed to them just being awful, and not performing well. Of course, in reality its likely a combination of poor coaching, and poor talent & OL play... but for that to be his answer, instead of taking responsibility at least some bit himself by saying... "we've got to block better, play harder, keep working" something... anything is better than re-directing the blame. To me, that's a guy not happy with the coaches in some way, shape or form.
Agree on the first two but not the last one. Could be interpreted two ways. First, he could just be tired of the media and not wanting to answer questions so he's just deferring to coaches. Or, he is not taking any blame and blaming the coaching staff. It's the same as Wallace when asked why he wasn't more involved saying you need to ask the coach. Either way, all 3 taken together paints a very disjointed locker room.
I am really disappointed in the fan-base & media in across the board. having said that, we need to finish out the year as best as possible, then move on to 2014, allowing the current regime time to establish & groom their game. everyone knows you need three maybe four good NFL years to hit the NFL in full stride.
Back on topic. I was thinking about this go vs go-go issue some more. I agree that there isn't enough time for a defensive player to wait to hear whether its one or two go's and then alter their play accordingly. But wouldn't it be an advantage on obvious passing or running downs to know the cadence? Take the end of the game on Monday night as an example. It's 2nd and 18, you know the Phins have a tendency to use a single "go" on passing downs so you use that knowledge to get an extra step towards the QB. Sure you risk an encroachment penalty if for some reason RT breaks tendency but so what its still 2-13.
How can you agree about the first two, admit the third can be something completely different...and then say all 3 are bad? I genuinely don't understand that.
This exactly. Watching the game today, it was interesting that a couple of times the Chargers jumped off sides when they heard the first GO from a shotgun formation, but it turned out to be a draw play ( GO GO ). Some would say that this shows how the topic is moot, because the defense's expectations could be used against them. Well I think it shows that a) opponents have indeed been using it to time the jump b) our staff hadn't done enough to strategically combat the problem until this game ( maybe ). In fact, the several recent losses that saw our Oline get demolished by pass rushers when trying to come from behind on a final drive...you really don't think that in such obvious pass situations, having a single GO to key off of isn't a huge advantage for a DE? Normally they have to key off movement of the ball, but this is better, because the sound comes before the center can even move the ball: the defense can move at the same time the offensive linemen move. Could easily have been worth a win, maybe two...when everyone knows you must pass, it's literally the same as having a single snap count. If it doesn't matter then why do teams bother to vary their snap counts?
You don't get it? Player 1 basically saying their relationship with the GM sucks. Player 2 is calling out fellow players Player 3 is either tired of answering questions of why they sucked, or is throwing the coaches under the bus. How can you NOT see that as bad????
Our run game isn't even crap. We're 14th in average yards per carry, even with those two abysmal performances against Tampa and Cleveland. The truth is that we've been very effective running the ball in 8 out of our 10 games.
Speaking of the topic, I think yesterday we caught a clue that defenses are keying on the cadence...for better AND worst. A Chargers player was caught going offsides because the Dolphins came to the line in a shotgun formation and the player jumped on the first "go" of the "go go" cadence. It COULD be that because Miami was in shotgun, the player expected a pass (which happens on like 90% of shotgun plays) and so he thought he could jump the cadence. Or it could be he just jumped offsides.
If I know a run is coming, where is it coming from? There are gaps that you can crash, but if you don't break down, even the least shifty NFL running back can change direction and go wild. If I pin my ears back as a Dlineman, any form of RB quick pass where the RB has moved into my vacated area could potentially burn us. I played, football is maybe 5% instinctual and if you're not thinking, you're going to get burned.
I suspect its a novel ploy Sherman uses to hang his hat on, for defensive players to ponder, rather than concentrate on his next wouldbe chess move. If we are conceding anything by using it, I'd like to see more offsides penalties as a result. Didn't we get one yesterday, that oddly enough, drew not one, but numerous offenders to sychronously commit?