I'm assuming this means we're going to have 4 new starting OL next year? If true, that stings I guess Jerry can be brought back cheap, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. Clabo could be re-signed cheap too, I assume. Again, not really the best thing. This Martin situation on top of the OL not being good to begin with really blew up on us.
I'd like to see 3-4 new guys regardless. Pouncey is fine and I could live with McKinney as a place holder. Brenner may have potential. But the whole line has been a disappointment.
I agree. Jerry is a fat ***. Clabo is a turnstile. Horrible unit that will get *** raped by the Jets defensive front this weekend.
Jerry and Clabo both have improved since Clabo's benching. They've gotten positive grades in each game since. Jerry is now ranked as the #10 RG, and #21 of all guards. He grades out at +6.0 on the pass and -4.0 on the run. He has given up 4 sacks, 3 hits, and 8 hurries, and ranks #3 at RG and #7 overall out of all guards in protecting the QB. In the last 5 games, he has only given up 1 sack and 1 hurry, while looking better on the run, and is currently our best ranked pass blocker. His false starts have probably cost us at least 1 TD. The problem I have with Jerry is that it takes him half a season to start playing well. While I do not like him, he probably goes nowhere when his contract is up.
Stop being so wishy-washy. Tell us how you really feel. Wow. Not a pretty picture. TMI, even. But it's hard to disagree. The question is, do we draft two linemen high and go for another two in free agency? We absolutely suck (read: Ireland) at identifying OL talent in the lower rounds.
I'd go after Jared Veldheer hard. Chris Clark from Denver has done a pretty good job since taking over for Clady, although Peyton makes all offensive lineman look a little better than they actually are, but if Veldheer gets the tag, Clark should be an option. Asamoah from KC should be another target if he actually makes it to FA. If we sign those guys, then you draft a tackle in the 1st and another guard in the middle rounds, now you've improved this line big time. well thankfully he won't be here anymore
We're going to be somewhat limited in free agency next year. We'll have some cap room, but that's mainly because a good number of starters are becoming free agents, guys who we should really retain; Starks, Soliai, and Grimes. Money needs to be allocated to one of the two DTs and Grimes. Then we need a new starting strong safety, since Clemons is coming off a one year contract. It doesn't really help that contracts that are looking pretty bad right now—Wallace, Ellerbe, Wheeler—all have spikes in guaranteed money in year 2. That spike, when graphed, looks like Ireland's middle finger to the franchise after being fired. That's counterbalanced by the fact that the OL market is fairly thin in 2014. Branden Albert is about it, with Michael Oher bringing up the rear. I'd like to kick the tires on Wade Smith at guard, but that assumes we keep the same blocking scheme. Start paying attention to which offensive linemen declare for the draft, as the Dolphins certainly will. Lastly, a trade shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Cameron Wake has a friendly contract and isn't getting younger…
I don't agree that the FA market for lineman is thin. There is Albert, Veldeheer, Ryan Harris and Chris Clark at Tackle. Inside, Dietrich-Smith, Beadles and Asamoah are free agents.
Of the tackles you listed, the Raiders will try to extend Veldheer, the Broncos have already extended Clark, and I'm not too excited about Ryan Harris though he's certainly better than thin air. Of the guards, Asamoah is interesting but I doubt the Chiefs let him get away. The other two are sort of meh to me, but at least they would fit the scheme.
We'll see what happens with Veldeheer, but where did you read the Broncos extended Clark? I think you may be confusing him for Clady.
I'm still scratching my head about the showing that the offensive line has put on since the beginning of training camp. Clabo was a good right tackle last year. Barring injury, a decline that rapid is unusual. A similar decline happened with Colombo the year before. Martin and Jerry may just not be any good, but Pouncey and Incognito are. To what extent, I wonder, is this offensive line's problem the blocking schemes they're being asked to execute? Does it lack complexity, tipping off the defenses they play against that they don't have to account for movement, and just stack the gaps because the OL is limited to trying to push directly forward on run plays? My point is that these are, for better or worse, all NFL linemen. They should be able to open a hole once in a while. Why are they repeatedly failing? Are they really that untalented, or is it the coaching? Any offensive line gutus out there?
I don't think John Jerry at his worst has been half as bad as the perception of him here. He's serviceable, and has been.
He's signed an extension through 2015. Click the "Contract Details" once you open the link. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5490/chris-clark
I think the scheme is a big issue. The most robust the blocking scheme seems to get(outside of the games vs Ray Horton defenses) it seems are OL+RB six man schemes, with a running back who can't block worth a ****. I'd be really curious to see how many of the sacks on this team have come on empty backfield five wide plays. I think the run scheme suffers from a mix of linemen whom don't fit together well. You're running a lot of outside zones when guys like McKinnie, Incognito, and Jerry don't really fit it. You've also picked a line composition full of guys who are better pass protection guys than run blockers. This is something I think the coaches have little excuse, as they had to change the blocking scheme middle of last year and then seem unprepared and slow to do so this year when they're in the same boat.
I've been reading a lot of other teams boards as for example, Chiefs fans are down on all their linemen, Albert included. We might be best off extending some of our guys and rebuilding through the draft.
Sticking 2 rookies on the OL and expecting to win next year is a pipe dream. Unless you're drafting top 5, rarely will you have a rookie Olineman come in and contribute at anywhere near an average level. Dallas Thomas hasn't developed enough to have gotten on the field yet and he's a 3rd round pick. It took John Jerry 3 years to play at an NFL caliber backup OG level. Another 3rd round selection. Jonathan Marting, taken at the top of the 2nd round, played at bottom of the league level even in his 2nd season
I think you have to go two free agents this offseason..two draft picks..there really no sugar coating it..
No one bit of information means anything until it is blended in with other information. The fact remains that these fans are in far better position to assess the performance of their players than we are.
Sometimes these situations come down to the "devil you know" scenario. Jerry, who I've been very critical of, has been at the very least serviceable. Clabo has turned it around somewhat since his benching. McKinnie has been adequate at LT. We can likely re-sign all three for the cost of signing Branden Albert. I would prefer this scenario, all the while bringing in a pulling guard at LG, and continue to develop the young players/upgrade through the draft.
As well, it is quite possible this team feels that Pouncey's skills may be better served at RG and decide to either bring in a center or simply play Garner at that position.
I would not bring back Clabo under any circumstances, and I'm always looking for a replacement for Jerry..I think signing two starters in free agency is doable, and drafting two players that can play is doable.
Anything is doable if you're willing to pay the price. Oher will likely hit free agency and will want more than Cherilus. Do we bring back Wade Smith? Do we blow the bank for Alex Mack and put Pouncey at guard? All expensive options.
No, they are not. Fans are always in the heat of the moment. How many go back with a rational, clear mind and evaluate something after the fact? How many can project how one player would perform in another circumstance? Sorry, but telling me that another team's forum doesn't like someone doesn't mean much. How many people here liked Wallace?
What I said was the information on their forum is just that...information. Add to this PFF rankings and our own observations of the players and then a better assessment can be made. Even if we discount some of the information because it's emotionally based, it's not much different than us assessing our own linemen...and the fanbase seems to have reached somewhat of a consensus. Accurate or not.
Except you cited none of this in your original post. You referred only to your perusal of other fans' forums. Say what you mean, don't ask others to read your mind.
The Clabo thing is a mystery that opens a window onto another mystery. There is no such thing as a player being good on another team and then turning totally incompetent the moment he starts for us. Other than through injury, it stands to reason that a player's physical talent doesn't change much from one season to another. There is something wrong with the way these players are being used. Don't ask me what; if I knew, I'd be a football coach.
Don't agree on Clabo, I thought he was pointing downwards in his last year in Atlanta..his body has not been taking care of correctly to be stable in his thirties..he's just overmatched on strength, and not quick enough to recover.
I'd like to blame it on scheme fit, but Clabo is getting beat off the snap, and many times, Jerry gets beat off the snap as well. What we do not need to do is what we did in free agency this. That is rely on players that do not fit the scheme. If we keep this scheme, the we HAVE to get players that can zone block. It does us no good to spend a bunch of money on gap blockers and put them into a zone blocking scheme. That would be similar to signing a poor route runner to play in a timing oriented passing offense. If we keep the system, then the best bet would be to address it through the draft with a "we are going to build the system" approach and not try to get the quick fix.