If Ryan Tannehill averages 186.5 yards passing for the remainder of the season...

I'm not sure you've watched those games because despite Ricky and Ronnie...that was exactly how that formation was used 80% of the time or more. Against the Texans I remember we had that big play with Ronnie handing off to Chad for a bomb while on the 40 yd line (I think?) but generally we did not run wildcat all game or for long yards. You are thinking of a few big plays and thinking we did that all season and every game.

In essence the Wildcat is a short yardage play. Snap to a skill player, a good runner confusing the D, that is exactly what Ronnie did...but Ronnie was not a true passer. A career RB can't be as accurate and while he had a few passing TDs...Henning didn't even want to run it until well past the 50. Even in 2008 there was a huge turnover risk to this play-style.

 

All he has to do is keep getting better. I don't think he's close to his ceiling yet.

 

2008 was all smoke and mirrors and doesn't really count for anything. Teams were confused by the Wildcat, leaving wide open players on occasion like the RB in the Texans game that year. There were also a handful of plays where Ted Ginn of all people bailed Pennington out on throws that he should have never made. I like Pennington a lot as a person and respect him as a leader, and yes, that season was better than the rest of the crap that we've had since Marino, but it wasnt great. If you look at it subjectively, you can't say that Chad did much of anything better than Ryan is doing other than not throw interceptions, and he was behind a much better OL with a much better running game.

 

lol buddy, I know what that formation is...and it is best used in short yardage situations and that is how they ran it most of the time. A few times they ran for big yards but usually the play call came inside the 20.

 

CJ Fiedorowicz would be a great selection in round two or three for a tight end.

 

If anyone wants to see what a real QB bust looks like, take a look at some Geno Smith highlights(low lights?)
Tannehill is the guy. We just need to keep building around him.

 

Absolutely. The problem coming off last season was our receiver core took a step forward, but our OL took 3 steps back. I'm adamant that if we got to keep Jake, it would not have been as bad as it has so far.

Sturgis also looks like a step back, in my opinion anyway. And when he misses somehow it's on Ryan for not getting 6 in the first place.

Failing to keep Bush is another thing...

No more compromising one area of the team to improve another.

 

Friends don't let friends agree with Fin D.

 

Usually when we went long with the wildcat Chad threw it anyway as he came back from the line into the backfield to take it from Ronnie so it wasn't much of a Pennington crutch that Fin D is making it out to be.

Whatever though, this is a democracy so i'm wrong I guess.

 

No. Penny was mostly incapable of big yardage plays. Our offense was stagnant, because all we could do is run and dink and dunk. Regardless of the original intent of the WildCat back in its college days, it was brought in to spark our offense. Basically: Penny + WildCat = 1 excellent QB.

 

Thats true, but its nice to finally get in on the fun again, isn't it? Rather than being left out in the cold while every other team has a real offense.

 

Tannehill has a lot of potential, nobody could honestly argue otherwise, but there has to be a point where our team takes a look and decides that 20 points per game just isn't enough to call him a franchise quarterback.

One thing a lot of you guys are ignoring is that while he's completing a lot of passes, only a handful of them are positioned where his receivers can make a play after the catch. If you watch guys like Rothlesberger, Luck or Weeden (three QB's I'd currently call "average" pros), they're throwing 10-15 pinpoint passes per game like the one we saw Hartline catch today for a TD today. In Pittsburgh, Wallace had 15+ TD's on that very same throw yet we've NEVER seen it completed once to Wallace in Miami...even though it's a very basic timing throw that has a high percentage rate. That can't be blamed on the line either because it was released in about 1.5 seconds; it's just something that Ryan isn't good at (yet).

If you look back over the season at the missed opportunities on poorly placed passes, Tannehill is leaving 2-3 TD's per game on the field. That doesn't mean he's a horrible QB by any means BUT Moore can make those throws consistently. The only difference is that Matt Moore has hit his ceiling and he's a lifetime 80-90 QBR quarterback. Tannehill is right there with him and he can go a lot further, but he is definitely not the best option to win with right now.

Just re-watch today's game film against a team that should barely be considered pro; how many passes did Tannehill actually hit his receiver PERFECTLY (or at least good enough where they could make a play without readjusting)? I see two...the throw to Hartline for the TD and the semi-deep pass to Clay. Out of 43 total throws...that's why we're the only team in the league that hasn't scored 28 or more points in a single game. Tannehill easily cost us 21 points today and its like that every week. I wish that I was 100% wrong here...but common sense says that I'm not; the film does not lie.

 

Plenty capable.

[video=youtube;5ehTn1noOSQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ehTn1noOSQ[/video]

 

If Ryan Tannehill averages 222 yards passing for the remainder of the season...

Are people already forgetting how good Penny was? Ridiculous.

 

Unless you have an elite QB/receiver core, you are not going to touch 40 pts every week. NFL defenses, and that includes the Jets, are tough. Don't look at KC and Denver, look everywhere else in the league...more games are decided with the winner in the 20s or lower than in the 30s or 40s.

I just think you are ignoring the fact that there are 11 other professionals being paid top dollar to make sure you don't complete the pass.

 

No, I fully understand that...defenses are wicked tough against the pass these days because it's a passing league. Defensive ends are built like running backs too, so those rushes cause a lot more havoc even in standard packages. I get all of that, but it doesn't change the fact that Tannehill is consistently missing throws that he completes in practice.

The other statistic I slipped in there is that WE ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE NFL THAT HASN'T SCORED AT LEAST 28 POINTS IN A GAME. I'll let that speak for itself.

 

Okay fair. But you mentioned the 1.5 second release throws need work. When you are throwing that quick it is very hard to read the coverage fully plus you don't really know if Ryan is going to his primary on those that he is missing. These are not always timing issues, sometimes on the quick pass you need to feel it out. Brady has that understanding with his core, Ryan doesn't with his right now.

Also on many of the missed opportunities the pocket just collapses way too fast. And broadcast isn't a great way to judge these things because they rarely replay incompletes at mid field, we usually can't tell the receiver/coverage battles unless they complete and advance, but we see every throw from start to finish so receivers usually get the benefit of the doubt.

Again apart from the Saints, who scored over 28 against us? We take up lots of TOP on offense and Tannehill can partly take credit for that. You are seeing only the bad in scoreless drives....I see all the 3rd downs conversions and clutch plays. We need work but we are almost there. Call me an optimist.

 

I think even today, he showed more pocket presence than - perhaps - he has shown all year. I also think it's improved over the last few games, which has - in addition to the adding of McKinnie and the subtraction of Incognito/Martin - lead to fewer sacks.

He still misses badly 3-5 throws per game, but he also makes up for it w/ some excellent throws. At this pace, by year 3-4, he's going to be one excellent weapon for the Miami Dolphins.

I think the thing people who criticize Tannehill forget is that what you see today isn't necessarily what you are going to see over the next season-to-two seasons as he continues to mature. He's getting better, and you'd have to be blind to miss it. It would be nice if he grows even more over the next four and leads us to the playoffs!

The biggest growth areas for him will continue to be pocket awareness, reading his keys more quickly, and becoming more proficient w/ the deep ball. But he has already shown the ability to improve on his weaknesses, so I expect he will on these in due time.

Even polished young QBs like Luck have shown they will struggle! True, every now and then you get a QB like Foles who comes along and just seems to get it right out of the gate, but that is few and far between. Others will look good out of the gate (like RGIII or Kaepernick) but regress as defenses catch up. Most good QBs develop and get better over time, and that is what we are seeing here with number 17!!

Be patient. Yes, you can get upset if he underthrows a guy, or misses a read, but don't think for one minute that he isn't getting better before your very eyes. Otherwise, you're going to miss a good show!

 

OV was a waste of a pick.. that guy will never be able to rush the QB…

 

Newsday has Tannehill as "looking like Marino" today....i should not neglect to mention they blame the Jests for doing so....


Also, it may have already been posted but heres an older article mentioning Shanahan supposedly wanting to draft tanny instead of trading for RG3. Might be BS, but the article even existing shows some in the skins camp may be wishing he did, justifiably so atthe moment.

Either way, im excited about our QB. Its been awhile since we've seen him have a truly bad game. He's been asked to do alot this year and has handled it well. Agree with what others have said about the pocket presense today..almost seemed like something clicked finally.

 

I'm a little conflicted on the deep underthrow to Brian Hartline.

Hartline clearly got a step on Dee Milliner and there was NO safety help over top. It was an aggressive coverage and Ed Reed was nowhere close to being able to help on that football.

So at first blush you're thinking...my GAWD...throw that ball deep and let Hartline run under it.

Except there's a big problem. Despite what people think, Hartline didn't get a ton of separation on that play. He got a step against a purely FASTER player who was already making up that ground before Hartline even slowed up to go for the football. Let's say Tannehill does throw the ball up for Hartline to run under perfectly in stride...that would've given the corner time to close the gap and he would have had an equal play on the ball. Both guys would be running hard so you nullify any advantage Hartline might have in being able to adjust to the football because all he's doing is running hard through the catch and that's exactly what the defensive back is doing too.

I think Tannehill tried to back-shoulder this ball. I don't think it was a matter of being conservative and not wanting to overthrow Hartline. I think he made a conscious decision that he's going to back-shoulder the throw and let Hartline adjust and come back to it while the corner awkwardly blows right by him. And I can see why in the moment he chose that back-shoulder throw, too.

 

Like I said, I'm not anti-Tannehill at all....he's a great leader, makes fantastic pre-snap reads, stays calm under pressure, shrugs off big hits, and can throw the ball a mile. All those things are essential traits in an NFL QB and he has them in spades. We are only running around 50% of our offense for a reason though, and that's because Tannehill is being babied towards high percentage throws (out routes, screen passes, etc.) that he excels with.

Half the reason why Hartline went 33 yards on a 3-5 yard throw today is because Tannehill NEVER throws that pass, despite it's good percentage rate. It required two fast reads though (one on the MLB/approaching safety, one on Hartline as he broke) and we don't even try to run that play because the timing on the crossing routes is Tannehill's biggest weaknesses. If you remember back, that was Henne's favorite throw to Bess and we saw it 100's of times. From Tannehill in two seasons, we might have seen it 30 times and it's only been delivered on the money once or twice.

The deep ball is another issue; not Tannehill's arm strength or anticipation, but the actual timing of the throws. How many times have wee seen Wallace ahead by 4-8 yards at the ball's release, only to have to come to a complete stop to compete for the under-throw? That's not a pocket issue either; if he has the time to heave the pigskin at all, then he has the time to throw it accurately. If you watched any of the great college football this past weekend, we saw deep passes galore where receivers were hit in stride over and over again. While you can say, "...but he's still getting completions deep," we drafted him primarily for his strong arm and great reads, meaning that we need those completions in stride to compete today.

Again, I'm not knocking him completely, but I'm not going to sugar coat every single throw like some of the others do here and say, "Either he threw it perfectly or it was someone else's fault." He's an average QB that could be a great one with just a little more fine-tuning...it all starts with getting that timing down though.

 

As much as Penny was a good part of that 2008 season....he was also the reason they brought out the Wildcat. He was averaging 5.8 and 5.6 yards per attempt in the air those first 2 games. Not to mention coming off a 110 yard 10 for 20 performance the week before.

 

Some would probably say Mr Ross. lol

 

If Ryan Tannehill averages 222 yards passing for the remainder of the season...

Your kidding me right?

This is ridiculous.

 

I think Parcells called Jeffy during the draft and suggested he take Tanny....lol

 

Very true...The team's ability to play good D most of the year, coupled with a weak schedule and just enough savvy by Penny folks probably over-estimate the worth of Penny, at that time. His deficiencies were very, very open to every D...

 

At this point i'm beyond sold that Tannehill can be a very good QB in this league. I'm not sure he's an elite QB but there are really only like five of those anyway. I think he can certainly be 2nd tier and that is good enough in my opinion. Like I said, he's always reminded me of Matt Ryan and I consider him borderline elite/2nd tier. Tannehill can do the same in my opinion sooner than later.
Seemed to me that ever since he completed 11 in a row against Tampa Bay, he's been a different QB. I know we lost that game but that seemed to be a turning point/milestone game for Tannehill. Ever since then he's basically been our entire offense. He has steadily improved from the start of the season and my confidence in him is growing. I hope he keeps it up.

 

What's so ridiculous about it. You're saying he didn't try to back-shoulder the throw? Because it looks pretty clear to me he did.

 

If Ryan Tannehill averages 222 yards passing for the remainder of the season...

If he did it's an absolutely 100% wrong read and throw.

I agree live that my first thought was that as well. I said "why in the **** was he throwing back shoulder there?" I thought for sure there was a safety over the top and closing. Even with a safety over the top with his arm strength he could fit it in the window he would of had. But there wasn't.

That was one of either two things. One. A terrible throw cuz it was incredibly short. Or two, a bad pass and bad decision to go back shoulder. Either way it was bad.

 

Here is a small education on the back shoulder throw.

http://www.packers.com/media-center...er-throw/7c011922-79f0-4243-954d-418c5e167861

Notice the markers that he talks about every time with every back shoulder throw decision:

1. The defender turns his back to the quarterback
2. The receiver looks back at the quarterback immediately
3. The quarterback makes eye contact

Now here's a look at what happened on the play with Hartline.



1. Dee Milliner turned his back on the quarterback immediately and was looking at the receiver
2. Brian Hartline looked back at the quarterback immediately to see what he was going to throw
3. Ryan Tannehill made eye contact with Hartline before he threw the ball

Now in the end as far as back shoulder throws go, this one could have been placed a little bit better. If it were maybe a yard short of where it ended up then Hartline should be all over the ball. But a big part of that is the timing as Tannehill held onto the ball half-a-beat too long. Give Dee Milliner credit for defending that back shoulder throw pretty darn well. He could have blown by as Hartline adjusted but he showed awareness.

Overall I don't like the play call on 4th & 1 at all. It's half a roster problem and half a coaching problem. The roster shortcomings are such to where the coaching staff absolutely does not trust the ground game to earn a simple yard the way the rest of the NFL does about 70-75% of the time (that's the success rates of 3rd/4th & 1 yard to go if teams run the ball). That's a horrible shortcoming to have on the roster IMO. But at the same time, the coaches are too willing to dive into the spread passing game on those downs and then they end up with passes that are really just low percentage passes. No surprise when they don't pick it up.

 

this is also why I think Ryan can be special, how many qbs that have potential be ruined by putting too much on them before they were ready only to buckle under that weight of expectation?

Ryan has maintained poise and composure, acted as a leader. Hard to measure intangibles.

 

In his post game press conference someone asked a question that touched on the 4th downs where they went for it and didn't get it.

Repeatedly he referred to him missing the throw on the 4th down on the goal line to Charles Clay, whom he described as "wide open".

Not a word about the Hartline throw on 4th & 1. If he felt it was a missed throw he's obviously perfectly willing to publicly beat himself up over it, but it's conspicuous by its absence.

I think there was a miscommunication. Hartline got enough of a step that suddenly he's thinking he's Mike Wallace and Tannehill should throw the ball up and let him run under it. But he's got 4.52 speed and Milliner has 4.35 speed and Dee had already made up about a foot or so of lost ground before Hartline even slowed down for the football. Tannehill in that situation with Hartline is expecting back shoulder. I think Hartline tried to pull an audible mid play and Tannehill just wasn't on the same page with him.

 

Interesting thoughts on the throw to Hartline CK. I'd want to re-watch it, but from what I remember I think it can be a very likely possibility. Obviously we'll never know for sure unless someone specifically asks him, and I doubt Tannehill would throw Hartline under the bus if that was the case, but watching that play, and watching the KC/Denver game last night, and how many back shoulder throws were in that game, they did look awfully similar to this particular play to Hartline. So maybe, just maybe Hartline was thinking big play, and Ryan was thinking a nice chunk of yards on the pass just to keep moving the ball.

It's not often we see that back shoulder throw from Ryan though, so maybe that's why Hartline really wasn't expecting it.

I think its one of those things we're all going to have an opinion on, and we'll never know what the actual on the field intentions were.

Initially I thought it was underthrown, especially with no safety over the top which would explain to me why Hartline was probably expecting that ball deeper down the field, given the fact the safety was out of the play, I'd like to think that's the throw he would have made there too, although as you pointed out, Hartline may not be the best guy, and that may not have been the best matchup for that throw either.

Interesting way to look at it, I'd love to get an actual answer from Tannehill/Hartline on it.