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Mike Wallace..showing signs of life?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yes, all its doing now is putting undue pressure...sucks, ryan just needs to figure out that this guy can seriously fly.and adjust.

    coordinator against Carolina called a proper amount in the Carolina game, he needs to just have some target practice in game situations, no big deal man..
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your really milking that eval bro..
     
  3. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Do you seriously think that his routes are not a major issue with the timing of the play? Do you really think that all Ryan has to do is adjust to Mike Wallace's speed, that the idea that Miami an run the same pass concept 10 times in a row, and Mike's speed of route and depth of route would be different all 10 times the concept is run doesn't have an effect?
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    gotta have ice, and soda water if im gonna drink that stuff...hard alcohol makes my face contort..hate it.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you absolutely have a point when talking about short to intermediate stuff, when it comes to the deep stuff were talking about in the discussion, all bets are off, the qb needs to adjust to the way the receiver beats his man..no rules,just get deep, and throw it..

    the coordinator also has to adjust, and cut out that fluff and get ryan set up quicker.
     
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  6. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    So you are for screwing with the timing with the other receivers just to fit Mike Wallace into the game plan more?
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    football is not as complicated as your making it seem, no route is gonna be on the exact mark, when it comes to the deeper routes, that definitely applies, beat your man as precise as you can with less false steps as possible, the qb has to see the field well to adjust his throw..

    also, your telling me that you have issues with the premier deep receiver who has amazing speed and has proven that he knows how to get open, about getting open deep.
     
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  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Seriously, Shouright is banned and an equally pompous troll is roaming freely.
     
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  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    My problem is paying a guy $60 million when he only has one strength to his game. And that player isn't nearly good enough to change your scheme around him.

    Do you think Green Bay has any issues with the routes of Jordy Nelson?

    What's sad is that Jordy Nelson is twice the receiver Mike Wallace is, and he gets paid half of what Mike Wallace does. Green Bay has a much better front office than Miami though.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he is a better player than your giving him credit for, 60 mill, no, but do you not think that Philbin knew what he was getting into and may of thought that despite that lack of precision in the mans routes, the strengths he does have he may want to devise an extension of the offense he is so familiar with. ?

    Is there not any room for that in the scheme, does it always have to be about possession receivers running precise routes? Or does the scheme have some room to grow, one thing I do believe is that the other receivers are working under better spacing principles because of his prescense and I don't think your putting any value on that and how that can translate into more yards, more tds when you assess his value.
     
  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It hasn't translate into more yards and TDs though, and that has been proven already in this thread. So this mystical ability to effect other players on the field isn't there. If it was, you could measure it.

    I also have very little doubt that Joe Philbin did not think Wallace was ideal for his offense. This move was all Jeff Ireland.

    Tell me this. Take Mike's speed away from. Is he a good receiver without his speed? Can you see him reshaping his game to extend his career when his speed is gone? Remember, speed doesn't age well.
     
  12. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    Your position is noted and full of merit. The problem is that it is moot...to the tune of $60M. Being that we've established that Wallace isn't going anywhere, this team has to decide how best to incorporate him into the scheme.
     
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  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    You do realize that any zone can call for man coverage on the outside at any time right? One simple call by the safety would leave one corner on an island.

    And the still photos during the Wallace Td does show Reed heading straight at Wallace. Right as Clay was getting past his man, and heading right into Reeds supposed area
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I completely disagree on the decision to bring in Wallace, I believe Philbin and Sherman had the luxury to choose who he wanted for the offense...with the inside info we had on Jennings and to not go after him, tells me all I need to know..

    Well, Wallace does not have great hands, doesn't run precise intermediate routes, what he does have is a particular grace about his movement that can be deceptive and explosive, he seemingly can make great plays under pressure conditions, and I believe he has a bit more football intellect than given credit for..he just turned 27 so I have no interest in keeping him once his speed erodes..in the meantime, if he helps us beat the steelers then we need to rethink things and this is what I mean, we've been doing all the wrong things around these parts for a long time, we've tried different schemes, different players, different coaches, all with the same results, always coming up short, always, if his dynamics brings a different result to the outcome than there isn't going to be any stats to prove anything, it's all going to be dynamics, and if it does happen, it would of happened in the first year of a very young team..I'm not sure you can put a price tag on that.

    If we lose 2maro, lets look at the game in a vacum, you may certainly be right.
     
  15. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Merit, is that another word for horse manure?

    All I hear is blah blah blah I'm smarter than everyone. I said the Dolphins would never sign Wallace then they did so now I have to explain how big of a mistake it was and film can't do it but I have these random stats that no one puts any stock into but if I just keep saying the same thing over and over and over and I can avoid having to admit how wrong I am.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's the point where it becomes clear, the distance the safety is relative to clay, relative to the lateral angle he takes toward his beaten corner tells me it was a reactionary instinct to cover his corner once he had established that his corner was turning and running deep.
     
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  17. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Then you better hope the Dolphins somehow can get Bruce Arians to run the offense, because that is the only scheme Mike Wallace will be productive in.
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Do you really think Joe Philbin, with his criticism of Clyde Gates on Hard Knocks, was 100% on board with this move? If you do, I have some swamp land in South Mississippi to sell to you. This is the same Joe Philbin who stated the first day he had this job that he wanted to build this team through the draft.

    The move has been made, so the best thing to do now is fire the guy that signed him to that contract. In the meantime, we will stunt Rishard Matthews development because we are obligated to play Wallace because of his contract.
     
  19. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Tannehill could have thrown to Clay and it would have also been a sure Td. Had he connected....
     
  20. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If Ryan had got him the ball he would be as productive as ever.

    Watch a football game for once.
     
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  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Nice try. Don't let little facts like Batch, Leftwich, and Antonio Brown attempting 22 of those 65 passes of 21+ yards get in your way or anything... with just 3 completions no less. :lol: Yeah that doesn't affect Wallace's 7 of 31. Even with those dumpster fire QBs taking up 1/3 of the 21+ yard attempts last year, Wallace still had 4 TDs in that range. He has just 1 in 24 attempts with Tannehill throwing the ball.


    You act like it was Wallace's fault he had a less productive 2012 season.
    a) Batch & Leftwich attempted 21.4% of the passes.

    b) The Steelers CHOSE to reduce his production by bringing in Haley and a new offense that shunned the vertical game and limited/hindered Wallace's opportunities behind the LOS. Miami wanted the opposite. We gave Wallace a big contract to specifically obtain his outstanding vertical game and playmaking ability.

    c) In Haley's offense, Roethlisberger is completing 32% less of his deep throws [over 30 yards] than his previous 5 years with Arians. Ben went from 42/112 [38%] to 9/34 [26%] with Haley. That's kind of a big deal when considering Wallace averaged 49 YPC and a TD every 1.7 of those before Haley arrived.

    d) Haley limited Wallace to 5 less catches behind the LOS for 94 less yards and 1 less TD than 2011.

    e) You blame a timing offense for his lack of production. That's BS. He was equally productive on throws of 1-20 yards in '11 as he was in Haley's offense.
    2012: 45 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
    2011: 48 catches, 578 yards, 2 TD


    So as you can see, your assertion that Wallace is the common denominator is false. A soon-to-be-fired Pitt OC and a 2nd year QB experiencing downfield inaccuracies are obviously the problem.... aided by 21% of last season's passes coming from scrub QBs. So Wallace didn't have a "down" year. What he's had is playmaking opportunities taken away downfield and behind the LOS, and neither of doing so are prerequisites of a timing offense.
     
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  22. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    If he could run a route and fight for the football, he would be productive. Unfortunately, the only quality trait he has is speed.

    Hey. You are going to continue to make excuses for the guy and try to find someone to blame his short comings on. That's fine if that is the position you want to take.
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Lol finish him, fatality.
     
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  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    He had more down the field targets last year than he did in the previous two years, so he wasn't limited. What he was asked to do was actually run a route, which he cannot do.

    It's funny that Antonio Brown isn't having the difficulties that Mike Wallace had in that timing based passing game. In fact, Emmanuel Sanders is more productive this year on down the field throws than Mike was last year. Continue to try and blame it on Ryan Tannehill though.

    Just face the facts. In typical Jeff Ireland style, Miami overpaid for a limited, one dimensional receiver that has very little impact on the game.
     
  25. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So your ignoring him being open by 2-3 steps??

    Explain
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  27. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I haven't seen him open by 2-3 steps very often at all. I see a receiver that has continued the same trend he showed in 2012, and that is an inefficient down the field receiver due to his inability to track the ball and a receiver that cannot make plays on other routes because his route running is so poor.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Every coach says that, fact is there is a salary cap that has to be factored in if that coach wants to win games..

    He didn't like gates, gates was cut, he didn't want Marshall, Marshall was cut, he didn't want Johnson, Johnson was cut, he didn't want Vontae, he was cut, he didn't want Reggie, he was cut, to me the logic tells me Ireland presented the options, they watched the tape of the players available, and he, Sherman, and Ireland chose to go with a new dynamic for the offense.

    It just doesn't make sense to go over their heads when this is their scheme, and with the info they had on Jennings..
     
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  29. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Well, Philbin, Sherman and Tannehill disagree with you pretty strongly as how how frequently Wallace has gotten open deep this year, and it's probably better to listen to them than to make up in your own head that they're lying about it. That scenario might jive with your belief that Wallace is to blame for everything when it comes to RTs deep passes to him, but that's just not the case. I'm looking forward to seeing film of all of Tannehill's deep passes to Wallace so we can put this beaten to a pulp issue to bed.
     
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  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You continually say Wallace cannot be effective in a passing game that requires timing. At the NFL level I'd say all passing attacks require some timing. Can you give an example of an offense that does not have timing in their passing game?
     
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  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    tell that to Roethlisberger who is completing 38% less of his deep passes this year than he did his previous 3 years with Wallace before Haley.
    And don't worry about facts like Brown & Sanders catching a chunk of those throws in shootouts or garbage time against prevent defenses this year b/c their own defense was busy stinking up the joint.

    What, is Wallace not running open in a straight line well enough for Tannehill in your opinion? :lol:
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    :huh: Now you think it's the scheme's fault that Tannehill is problematically missing Wallace on deep throws? Ichiwawa.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    or maybe he's saying a timing offense can't include a vertical game? Either way it's false.
     
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  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Considering Philbin was the reason for Gates' departure, yes, there's no way Wallace arrived without Joe being on board. And if you think Gates and Wallace are reflexive then I've got a dilapidated trailer park next to a chemical spill in NC to sell you. It's not worth arguing with your obtuseness on this when you're convinced Wallace is the antichrist and Tannehill is free of blame from his deep ball issues. It's on the verge of entering Shouright-like proportion.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Docta Sho continues to take shots...lol
     
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  36. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    No no no, Ireland made it his business to offer the biggest contract he's ever offered to a player that the HC he just hired wanted nothing to do with. Why? Because he wanted stadium renovations.


    ha ha ha
     
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  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No. In Ben's first year with Wallace he completed 10 of 24 passes [42%] with 5 TDs on throws of 31+ yards. Tannehill has completed 6 of 25 [24%] for 2 TD.

    That's what makes me chuckle when Vendigo critically questioned the 40% deep ball completion rate I mentioned earlier regarding what's an acceptable percentage when Wallace is open behind coverage. Ben's 42% loosely encompassed all deep throws, even ones that were into tight coverage; however, the 40% I mentioned pertained to just those where Wallace is open and thus demand a higher completion rate..... yet somehow Vendigo thought it was a preposterous statement. LOL.
     
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  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Should've called himself Docta Scholls instead.... b/c his product be gettin' stepped on.
     
  39. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    Regardless of this days long message board dispute, it finally appears as if Wallace is truly factored into the game plan. The past two games have set the template...safeties up, deep downfield...safeties back, slice and dice up and down the field.

    Whatever we think occurred during that Panthers game, it is clear that what did occur horrified Rex Ryan as he kept his safeties way back. The last four game will be interesting.
     
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  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    He wanted Incognito gone. Incognito was kept. He wanted Jonathan Martin gone. Jonathan Martin was kept. He wanted Sam Brenner more than Dallas Thomas. Dallas Thomas was kept.
     

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