Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's status TBD

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

I think MJD fits everything that this coaching staff wants in a RB and will be a FA target. The next question will be which o-lineman we go after. I'm pretty convinced that we'll target at least one lineman in FA.

 

I think Branden Albert is the obvious choice as far as free agents go. I wonder if they'll look at some short-term solutions like Willie Colon or other vets while they try and develop Dallas Thomas and anyone drafted in 2014.

MJD is a good shout in free agency. I think he and Lamar Miller form a nice complement to each other.

 

Care to elaborate on the roster composition issue?

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

Albert is an obvious target in the sense that he won't get the tag again. I'm not sure that, considering the price tag, he's a better option than McKinnie. Besides he always has the back issue. Asamoah appears to be somewhat out of favor with KC so he likely won't be resigned. I've liked what I've seen from Veldheer but he'll likely be tagged. Mack could be a big ticket purchase (moving Pouncey to G) but he'll likely get tagged. Don't sleep on Wade Smith as a short term replacement for Incognito. At 32, I don't see him getting big money interest in FA.

 

It's the gaping holes they've had at entire units over the course of the years. Last year, with a rookie quarterback he armed him with a receiver no better than Brian Hartline. This year the offensive line was improperly addressed, and if what has been said in club is true, he disagreed directly with Joe Philbin on two players who started the season. Next year he's going to have to replace both of his starting defensive tackles and probably find some depth as well. Same with the secondary, 3 of the 4 starters are free agents.

It's one thing to replace a starter off a unit each year; that's pretty common, but having to replace or re-sign 4/5 of your O-line and 3/4 of your starting secondary plus depth, is his downfall. Not to mention the monster deals that have Wallace, Ellerbe, and Wheeler all here for at least another season or two. For better or worse, you're stuck with those guys or you're eating a TON of dead money if you release them.

He's got a good eye for talent, especially late-round talent, and I think he'd do well as a head of scouting for someone, but managing upcoming contracts, meshing his vision with the staff's vision, and giving bad contracts are red flags. And it's been ongoing since he's been here.

Look at the way this team's setup. Your players from the 2008 and 2009 classes should be your veteran leaders and the core of the team by now. There's 2 of them still on the roster - Hartline and Clemons. It's no wonder there was a leadership void on this team after losing Long and Bush and jettisoning Dansby, for the whole scenario to manifest itself for Richie Incognito and Mike Pouncey to become core leaders.

Then you get into bad value picks, being a walking-talking PR trainwreck, etc.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

I too have complained that we tend to spring one leak per season. This year it was the o-line but we really have to step back and look at the bigger picture.

The o-line has progressively gotten better and they've kept Tannehill upright vs two fierce defenses the past two weeks. We even threw 125 rushing yards against a historically good run defense last week. At least this year we've been able to plug our problematic leak.

 

Yeah, but if they had done something about the O-line during the bye week, we're probably talking about trying to catch New England for the division next week than talking about trying to catch the Ravens for the 6th seed. Granted, you could say the same thing about coaching. They've laid eggs coming out of a bye (Buffalo) and off a longer layoff (Tampa Bay).

You also have to look at this upcoming off season, you've only got one current starter in Pouncey under contract...unless you really want Nate Garner starting again, plus you still have to address your D-line and the secondary.

How many leaks cause the ship to sink?

 

Exactly this. It's amazing how many holes the good ship Dolphins springs every offseason. For instance, the OL has never returned the previous season's same five starters under Ireland, now we're looking at four new starters in 2014. We have very poor roster planning and talent projection.

I'm also not sure that distilling late round draft success is, in and of itself, anything to be proud of. The result has been a roster with a high floor and a low ceiling, aka mediocre. Where's the elite homegrown talent? Further, why is it a credit to Ireland's scouting abilities that he found a starter in the 5th round, but not a demerit to point out that we needed the starter because his previous attempt at plugging in a body went awry?

Coaching cannot infuse talent where it does not exist.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

It's the salary cap era so there will always be leaks that require plugging. We don't know the reasons why the trade wasn't made at the time. Maybe our competition (Ravens) wanted to wait until the last minute to consummate the trade.

The team knew last season that this off-season was the year for the o-line makeover. Nothing has changed on that front. If we keep eight linemen, we likely have four on the roster in Pouncey, Garner, Brenner and Thomas. We need four more with two likely coming in free agency and two from the draft.

The secondary just requires that we re-sign our free agents which will likely happen. Clemons has earned his extension and I think they'll re-sign Carroll. Grimes is getting the tag. DT is an concern as we have three FAs within two years. I see Odrick getting extended with the other two leaving. DT will be a draft priority.

 

Financially, I think it's better to re-sign Grimes and tag Clemons. Ultimately, I wouldn't want to tag either player.

 

I am not sure why people want to give Ireland a pass. There's a reason our team has been mediocre to bad for so long, and it's lack of talent. The GM picks that talent. If you don't blame the GM, who DO you blame?

 

As much as I don't want to stand up for Ireland, how can we give a free pass to coaching?


Look at Sparano... a Neanderthal and has done nothing since.


Philbin and co... I hate to use Omar Kelly as a source, but he has been spot on about the coaching staff. They take weeks to implement what everyone is screaming for, such as moving the pocket/roll outs, running the ball when were doing it well, playing Dion Jordan, forcing the 4-3 despite our talent, getting Wallace the ball, not to mention Sherman's play calling when we are in fg range, could go on forever. This team could and SHOULD easily be 8-4, with this talent.


After the season starts, the onus falls on the coaching staff to produce. I even blame them for not getting McKinnie before the bye, I'm sure it was them telling the GM they needed help, not Ireland telling them they needed McKinnie.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

We can't think of the franchise tag as a "franchise player." It's simply a tool to ensure that you can exclusively retain a critical player. Grimes is a top 3-5 corner this season and must be retained. Clemons can be had on standard longterm deal.

 

That's not accurate. Look at Seattle. Pete Carroll and John Schnieder have been at the helm since 2010, and they have built a very strong, deep 53 man roster that really has no weaknesses or leaks. Scott McCloughan and Trent Baalke combined to build a very strong roster in San Francisco. Ted Thompson has built a strong roster in Green Bay.

 

So, if a player pans out it's coaching. If not it's bad talent evaluation by the GM.

Got it...

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

I'll grant you the first two but we've come to learn that Green Bay has a very leaky roster.

As for this team and how it differs from Seattle and SF is that with the regime change, a lot of the core players from pre-2012 were deliberately jettisoned. Next year and the following year will be better indicators of where we are longterm.

Besides, in a league of 32 teams, surely you can come up with more than two examples to support your position or else the remainder of the league can say..."Well we're not as good as the Seahawks or 9ers so fire everybody!"

 

Um, that's not what he is saying. What he is saying is that the coaches can't take a slow footed lineman and make them a quick footed lineman. The coaches can't take a piss poor route runner and make him a great route runner.

 

It's only been a couple of seasons but it does appear as if more guys are showing signs of developing under Philbin than in the whole time Sparano was here.

 

I don't think Green Bay's roster is leaky at all. That is a great example of what happens with a team when an elite quarterback has to miss significant time. Do you think Seattle would be as good as they are if Russell Wilson were injured? How about Denver without Peyton?

 

Correct, the team with that Earl Thomas guy.

 

And without the Qbs those teams look like what? Obviously Harbaugh has made some chicken salad out of not much but basically everything devolves into your Qb. Our team would be elite with elite Qb play, we basically need to hope Ryan progresses.

 

I think that is very apparent in the secondary. Kevin Coyle did a great job in Cincinnati of taking other teams' castoff defensive backs (Reggie Nelson, Adam Jones, Nate Clements, Chris Crocker) and getting them to play better. He's done it in Miami with Nolan Carroll and Jimmy Wilson, two players that have played very well this year that most Dolphins fans won't acknowledge because both were so bad in previous years.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

Keith - your position is devolving from the quality of the roster to the value of the QB position. The quality of the roster and plugging holes in free agency is where this discussion originated from.

 

And that is what I feel the reasoning behind the teams's approach to Ryan Tannehill has been what it is. They have thrown a lot on his plate and have asked him to do a lot, whereas other teams may try to limit what is on their young quarterback's plate. I think the idea behind it is that they make him learn by fire, and because of this, when everything slows down for him mentally, he will be able to process everything and run the offense the way Aaron Rodgers runs it in Green Bay. Most folks probably don't know this, but Aaron Rodgers calls about half the plays that Green Bay runs. I think Joe Philbin wants Ryan Tannehill making plays from the pocket so instinctively and having such a feel for the offense that he can pretty much call his own plays based on the defense he sees. Will he get there? Only time will tell.

 

There is a reason the quarterback is the most impactful position on the field. The play of the quarterback can cover up some deficiencies to an extent. The play of the quarterback doesn't dissolve the fact that those teams have mentioned have much better rosters and are constructed better than the Dolphins are. Let's face facts. The only reason the Dolphins are even in the playoff discussion is because it is a down year in the AFC. We do not have a good roster. We have a sprinkling of quality players throughout the roster, but the roster is constructed poorly and doesn't fit what the coaching staff wants to do.

 

Or an offensive lineman who may be soft to the point where he was off a number of team's draft boards and turn him into anything resembling Conrad Dobler.

 

i think Russel Wilson and Aaron Rodgers would be having similar success with this roster, sorry.

 

So based on your belief, Cam Cameron should have been given at least two more years to prove he had no idea how to be an NFL head coach.

 

Personally, I don't trust any of the local or natl media guys as "credible team insiders", nearly all report more on opinion rather than facts...but that is neither here nor there....

But more to the thread, I agree that I think Irish, at this point, is closer to losing his job than Philbin but I also think the outcome of this investigation will go a long way in determining the fate of both guys... Don't get me wrong, I still think this has been an orchestrated ploy by Martin to either get out of football or out of his contract with the Fins at a minimum. I mean IF it's found that a trainer or coach or someone on the staff coerced RI into 'toughening up Martin', Philbin is likely on very shaky grounds. However, even if an underling is found to have been a part of this, the performance of the O in general, even if we miss the POs, is reason for hope and potentially saving his bacon for another year...

Irish on the other hand is more tied to this season's performance. The thing is, while he's come up with many gems and generally improved the team, there have been more than his fair share of missed picks and guys like Miller, Egnew, Mathews, Thomas, Martin, JJ, Clabo, etc all not exactly living up to where we thought they should be at this point has got to hurt his chances...and those guys I'm basing on just this year, there are others in previous years that haven't worked out as well, and of course there's the whole Parcells influence issue that, imho, Ross has wiped Ireland's slate clean of, but I could be wrong...

Either way, I think we see some changes this coming offseason...what they really are remains to be seen, but changes likely are coming...

 

I don't know where you've gotten this idea that coaches don't matter, but it's really baffling, and it's bizarre in this context. At very worst, Ireland has put the team in a 7-9 rut with pretty decent talent in a lot of areas but holes. That's not a death spiral.

There's literally no aspect of coaching that has been done well this year. The team doesn't play to its level of talent, routinely collapses, has loads of unforced errors, major structure problems(OL) go largely unmitigated, the staff appears actively scornful of changing their ways, appear very confused how to put players in their best position to succeed, can't handle locker room issues before they go public, etc. and so on.

This is a bad coaching staff. I'm not sure if you put them on even ground they'd be any better than some of the bad coaching staffs we have had here over the last decade plus.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

Some of this may be true but we'll have to wait for the post season "autopsy" to see who was responsible for what. One thing I will say is that we have to separate inexperience with lack of talent. I don't think we are necessarily untalented at key positions, we are just inexperienced. I don't think we get top third QB play but I think we will in the near future. Due to inactivity, we receive limited production from Jordan whereas I think one day soon we'll have a 10+ sack player.

The list goes on with others and the distinction needs to be made.

 

Barry Jackson sports buzz 12/7 - Philbin expected back in 2014, Ireland's sta...

I have some experience in how big organizations handle matters from a litigious perspective and I tend to think its foolhardy to believe the NFL is going to admit the team was somehow wrong in this matter and hand Martin an airtight lawsuit on a silver platter.

More likely is the scenario where they'll say the coaches or management did not know what was going on and that Martin defied the CBA and internal mechanisms of redress for his grievances.

People must realize that there are real world implications for these situations.

 

I agree Ireland has been the major problem. That is why I have been wanting Ross to fire him since 2011.

Philbin may or may not be a good head coach. I really don't know based on his record so far. I just feel that if you are going to bring in a new GM, you have the best chance of getting a top quality GM if you allow this GM to select the next head coach and not force him to keep the present head coach.

If the next GM evaluates the job Philbin has done so far and wants to keep Philbin, I'm okay with that. I'm also okay with the next GM replacing Philbin if that is what he feels is best for the team. I just want a quality GM to replace Ireland and don't see that happening if Ross forces the next GM to keep Philbin as the head coach. As the owner, Ross certainly has the right to do as he pleases, but the problem with the Dolphins right now is there is a lack of overall talent and it is going to take a great personnel man to change that in the coming years.

To me, getting the right personnel man to come here and select the talent necessary to take this team beyond mediocre is far more important than whether or not Philbin remains the Dolphins head coach beyond this season.

 

Cam lost his team in his first year. It was beyond obvious that he was in over his head. While there are some things I don't like about Joe Philbin, I can't say that he is in over his head.

Let's put it this way. How do you think Cam Cameron would have handled this team with all the distractions in place this year? My guess is, the team would have crumbled and pulled apart. While Joe may not be directly responsible for the team pulling together, a very poor coach would not have handled the situation as well as it has been handled to this point.

 

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/10/on-effect-of-coaching.html

Now, I'm not saying that coaching doesn't have an impact at all. I'm saying it isn't as much as the fans want to believe. There isn't a coach out there that can take this roster, as it is currently constructed, and win 13 or 14 games and compete for the Superbowl just because of his coaching ability. I think the roster is constructed poorly enough though that if we had a very poor coach, we would only have 2-3 wins right now. This is a 0.500 roster, and that is what this team's record is. We only have two borderline elite players on the entire team in Cam Wake and Brent Grimes. Everyone else that is playing well is either just good or very average. We don't have many difference makers at all. This defense isn't loaded in talented difference makers like the defense of the early 2000s were with Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Sam Madison, and Patrick Surtain. Those four players right there are the reason Dave Wannstedt has the 2nd highest winning percentage in Miami Dolphins history as a head coach.

 

You realize you're going in circles right?

One minute GB has a strong roster the next minute that strong roster can't win a game and it's because their elite QB is injured. Sounds to me like they have an average to below average roster made to look good by their QB.

And why is their QB injured in the first place? He was the most sacked QB in the league last year but Thompson did nothing to fix the OL.

And their defense is an embarrassment so please stop cradling Thompson's sac.

 

I don't know about winning 13-14 games, but I have to think that, Belichick, both the Harbaughs, Reid, Carroll, Payton, and probably a few more present NFL head coaches could have done a better job with this roster than Philbin has done so far this season.

 

You seem to be in the habit of inventing content where none exists.

 

Oh yeah, I've heard of him. The nickel back.



























That impersonates an All Pro safety