Wow, well thought out reasoning. Could not have said it any better. Just beat them...period..nothing else to say. They have been better than us for the last 10 yrs...period. Not even debatable. Have I thought about officiating being a big part of this game? not for a second. Winners win...losers look for excuses.
Winners win. There is no arguing that. But If you say a ref cannot ever be blamed for a loss.. well... youre living under a rock. It's even more sad how many anonymous NFL players come out and talk about how big of a problem fixed games are. Im happy with wins that are earned. And im less upset at losses that are legit losses without the other team being assisted. You cant always overcome the refs.
Do calls change games and outcomes? Of course they have...Human error involved. Is this done with an agenda or purpose..come on,really? So the only thing stopping us from beating the pats over the years are the refs? lol. ALOT more involved than that..lets just beat them by outplaying them so a bad call will not effect the final score
he said he doesn't blame refs for losses. Thats a quote. A quote I find ridiculous. Now its backtracking. But still. Its either they can be blamed or they can't. Which is it? Sometimes you can't "just win" and the last phins pats game proved that
I scream at the officials through the TV the entire game, Honestly not a fan of them. Their calls change momentum and some outcomes, no denying that. I am not ready to say that there is motive or intent.I see it more as incompetence than a conspiracy.Hate to see people,before one of our bigger games in a while, worried about who is the ref and what kind of call will give NE a win on sunday
I agree, The Vernon call killed us! Terrible call by a terrible official. Always enjoy the games better when I can't recall seeing the ref every 2 plays. I hope the both of us have a glorious sunday and see the team we love play their hearts out. We have waited for a game like this for so long. Here, is to a win on Sunday without any problems. I am sure you have suffered as long as I have, and deserve 3+hrs of joy on Sunday...
Hopefully it will be called fairly and that there will not be any huge calls that go the wrong way and impact the outcome of the game. That said, I long remember Mel Blount making the point in the 70's (paraphrasing): "You have to be good enough to win regardless of what the officials do."
coulda fooled me. They sure needed them vs the Browns last week. And Brady begging the refs vs carolina. So i'm not buying it. I mean yeah, i know they are a good team and all but goddamnit i'm sick of seeing brady getting these ghost calls and intentionally grounding every other set of downs with no call. He's used up all his free passes
I suggest anyone with time read the peter king article about the officials. it was really interesting to see into their world. if they got "downgraded" the game before on a certain type of call, thye will call it more aggressively the next game. I'd like to know if they had any controversial calls last week that might impact this week. http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/04/peter-king-spends-week-with-nfl-refs/
Definitely agree with your first statement. And look, I'm not going into this game with one eye on the referees. Last game was last game, and while I think we got jobbed a couple times in that game, I don't think it's an agenda or anything like that. Obviously, if the Dolphins play their best game, they stand a good chance at winning. However, one crowing achievement the Pete Rozelles and Roger Goodells have done in the NFL is, for the most part, made it a league of parity. It's what makes the league so fascinating. There aren't many teams that are that far off from the playoffs and there aren't many great teams that are just going to own whatever team they play. The athletes on each team basically rival each other. Coaching matters in the NFL. It makes a difference. Look at college football where you can put a Bill Belichek, Vince Lombardi, or George Halas on the sidelines at UT-Chattanooga, it doesn't matter -- they ain't gonna beat FSU if they played 100 times. FSU would win 100 out of 100 games. Not so in the NFL. How many coaches do you hear -- I know Gruden says it a lot on MNF -- "it's hard to win a game in this league." And it is. Teams are close in talent. It's an awesome thing. There aren't a lot of blowouts, and look at the spreads each week; they're usually less than a TD no matter who's playing or where their playing. All that said, when everything's this close -- and I don't think it was when Mel Blount played; I think there were more haves and have nots when the draft was 12 rounds and there wasn't free agency (and players from good teams could make statements like that) -- officials' calls, especially bad ones and game changing ones, are going to be magnified. Can teams overcome it? Sometimes, sure. Especially early. But in the random games where three or four bad calls happen, and most of them go one way, good luck to any team in winning that game. [**Whining alert**] It just so happens that in our first game with New England, I think we were victimized like that. We had overcome the first penalty against Wilson. They got their three points, and we got 17. Then, the second one. Then, the third one. And all of a sudden you could just see the points tallying the other way as what should have been fourth downs turned into first downs for the Patriots, and the Dolphins coaches and field goal kicker (who missed a pivotal kick to put the Dolphins up three scores right after the half) didn't help matters. I also think the Dolphins mettle proved a little weak as we didn't do a good job in Red Zone defense or driving the ball offensively. However, we did hang in and had a shot to at least tie it up when we made a great play on the sack/fumble on Brady... then the "batting" call happened as the cherry on top. Omar Kelly and Dave Hyde are going back in forth on articles in the Sun-Sentinel on who really has more talent at this point between the Fins and the Pats. Well, if it's close enough that such distinguished minds as those two can argue about which team has more talent, I would think that a game where one team gets beneficial calls four to one on the other... that team is probably going to win. Again, I'll go into this game with a fresh start. The Dolphins need to win, and I don't anticipate the officials being a huge factor. If, however, in the unlikeliest of events, that EITHER THE DOLPHINS OR THE PATRIOTS have four atrocious calls go against them, whichever team is the victim in that scenario will lose in my opinion. Apologies to Mel Blount, I don't think either team is good enough to win a game that unfolds like that.[**End of Whine** (probably)]
The Fins clearly got screwed at New England earlier this season. Multiple calls that we complete BS. The next day, a friend who's a Vikings fan and one who's a Cowboys fan both couldn't believe how that went down when they were talking to me. My friends who are Steelers fans know the exact same thing. They don't complain about the officials favoring the Ravens or Bengals, its the Patriots. Every year. I'm not saying that Miami has often been the better team between the two the past decade, but a lesser team has a really hard time winning when the better team also gets BS calls all game long. It happens far too often for it to be pure coincidence.
Generally I'd agree, though there have been a couple of former referees who made multiple game changing BAD calls against us. Close games are often decided by 2-3 plays. Therefore, in the cases of those officials, I definitely blame them and will never forget them. #1 one is a potbellied chinless bastard named Tom White. I despise him with ever fiber of my being. The other who constantly screwed us throughout the 90s is the somewhat well known Gerry Austin, though not as egregiously as Tom White did.
I have to know, what can you remember about White that screwed us..lol..immediately knew him by your description...
PFFFTTT! You're like a kid telling his parents he's running away. We all laugh but no one really believes you.
since they started keeping the stats... we are 7 and 5 with Corrente as referee. The Pats are 9 and 2.
also interesting regarding the ref crew... they were on a bye week that fateful Sunday (the first game vs NE).
There was one that stands out the most. Over the years, the others have faded. There was a play where we needed to control the ball to run out the clock and could win the game. This may have been vs the Pats. Abdul-Jabbar was carrying the ball and got hit, landed flat on his back. As his back hit the ground while being tackled, the ball popped lose. Definite down by contact. Frigging obvious. The opposing team recovered the ball, this was about between the 45 yard lines, marched down and scored. We lost. This must have been 1996 or 1997. This was one of the years without replay as I recall, but the officials conferred on it. Gerry Austin one time, we were playing Detroit, Rodney Peete was the QB, just after he threw the ball, Shawn Lee came in and gave him a shove. Peete never went to the ground, he just backpedaled a few steps after the push from Lee, but kept his feet. Austin called roughing the passer. This was on 3rd down, and the pass had been incomplete. Detroit maintained possession, and later scored on the drive. The game was decided by less than 7 points. We seemed to get Austin and White at least once a season for a long stretch from circa 1990 to circa 2005, and I do not recall us ever winning a game with either as the official during that span. Right before he retired, Austin may have reffed one win of ours about 2008-09.
I seldom get really mad at any of our players. I think they are trying their best. When I have exploded and flipped out, it has been because of a bad call against us. I remember one time we were playing Buffalo. It was September because it was still warm enough here to have a window open. About 11am on the west coast. There was a really bad call against us and I was yelling, and cussing so loud, one of the neighbors called the cops. I was home alone. When the cop came to the door, I told him what the commotion was about. He just smiled and said ok, have a good day and left.
Austin was the ref for the 2003 home game against the Pats that ended in OT. Olindo missed two FGs from the dirt that day. Two plays that stand out are when Chris Chambers caught a pass for a first down around mid field, was clearly stopped with his forward progress, and one Pats defender picked him up from behind off the ground while another wrestled the ball out, and it was called a fumble. There was also a play where Ricky lost possesion of the ball after his knee was clearly down in the red zone, the replay clearly showed he was very much down, and Austin called it a fumble. BS.
That is exactly what I said and I meant it. I agree that the ref's make errors in a game because they are human. I just feel that the game is 60 minutes long and teams have plenty of time to make the plays to overcome a bad call every once in a while. I also believe that good and bad calls even out over a period of time. I guess I am just more accepting that humans actually do make mistakes and that is why I don't blame the refs when my team losses a game. Just as I don't give the ref's credit when they make a bad call that favors the team I root for. I just think it is ridiculous that people are already worried about who the ref's for the game are this week and appear to think that the ref's will be the reason the Dolphins might lose this game. I'm worried about the Dolphins scoring enough points against the Patriots defense and Brady having another big second half against the Dolphins defense. Those are what I am concerned about in regards to the game this week. It certainly isn't who the ref's are for the game. As far as the last Patriots-Dolphins game is concerned. The Patriots completely outplayed the Dolphins in the second half of that game and that is why the Dolphins lost. It certainly wasn't because of the one call which went against the Dolphins. If the defense had risen up and stopped the Patriots offense after the call, the Dolphins would have had a chance to win the game. They didn't do so and therefore the Patriots went on to win the game. The original call by the ref's may have been a bad call, but that isn't the reason the Dolphins lost the game. They lost the game because they failed to show up in the second half and were completely outplayed by the Patriots in that half. The fact some people are still blaming the ref's, and not the poor play of the Dolphins in the second half of that game is what I find ridiculous.
I think its ridiculous that when a ref makes a bad call on the last play to lose a game, you can't admit the refs lost the game. You realize when the refs are making calls like that against you it makes the opposing team look better and one team look worse right?
I never blame the officials, players make so many mistakes and just flat get beat on every single play. That's what costs teams wins, not some official. Sure we make our share of mistakes, but not near as much as players or coaches.
stop worrying about me. see that is the problem. that is why you needed a co commish to help you. focus on your priorities. not on me.
Based on your reasoning, the reason the Dolphins won the game against the Steelers last week is because the ref made the correct call on the last play of the game. It obviously had nothing to do with the fact the Dolphins had the lead and the defensive back forced Brown to run so close to the out of bounds that he actually stepped out of bounds. So if you expect me to blame the ref's when they make a bad call on the last play of the game and my team loses. I assume the ref who called Brown out of bounds last week on the last play of the game deserves ALL the credit for the Dolphins win. Now that is what I call ridiculous. As I pointed out earlier. Ref's are human and humans make mistakes. Unless you have never made a mistake which has affected others, and I don't think that is possible. I just don't see how you can blame another human being for making a mistake. I don't like it when a bad call affects the game, but I realize that bad calls are part of the game and sometimes they go against the team I am rooting for. That is just part of the game and I don't think the ref's favor one team over another. They just blow a call on occasion and I guess it is easier for me to accept this as part of the game than it is for you to accept it.
What you just said is nonsensical and I considered not even replyinf to it...no offense. Making the correct call is in no way the same as calling a PI to put the ball at the one yard line when the game otherwise would be over, just as an example. Or the play against the Steelers years ago where they received a free TD when Big Ben didn't cross the plain. Or the Sharper touvhdown against us that was obviously a fumble. Bad calls result in POINTS that IMPACT the game. Especially in thr NFL where most games are close and often unpredictable. Also I never made an argument that refs have an agenda. Your last two paragraphs are not needed or valid in this debate.
I never stated that bad calls don't affect a game. I merely pointed out that bad calls are a part of the game and they have been a part of the game ever since I started watching NFL and college games in the 1950's. In fact the reason we have reviews for all TD's in the NFL and coaches can challenge certain plays, is because the NFL and college football recognize that officials make mistakes. I just figure that bad calls, for and against your team even out over the long term. I just find it strange that individuals who claim to be football fans don't understand that bad calls are part of the game and nothing is going to change that. The ref's in the NFL and in college all work full time jobs during the week and are not professional referees who spend all week doing nothing but working on their craft. I wasn't happy with the plays you listed above, but these type of calls happen all the time in the NFL and in college. It does me no good to get upset with the ref's when they make an honest mistake, even if it leads to my team losing the game on the final play of the game. If this only happened to the Dolphins and no other team. I would certainly be angry at the ref's and blame them. I know this is not the case and therefore I just accept bad calls as part of the game and hope that the Dolphins can overcome this type of call when it happens to them. Perhaps my age and experience have allowed me to be more accepting of human mistakes than you are. I will admit that when I was in my 20's, I was far less tolerant of the errors other people made which affected me or the teams I root for. I have just learned with experience that mistakes happen and some of these mistakes affect you more than others. If blaming the ref's for a bad call makes you feel better, so be it. I just consider it part of the game experience.
