Erik Frenz: Tannehill emerging from '12 rookie pack

You may be right, but I don't think Wallace is the smartest guy ever and simply judges himself on stats

 

Because Wallace, like all other WRs....only see his own numbers. Sherman sees the big picture.

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the cushion is probably bigger because someone like Cromartie is more certain in his veteran savvy to keep with the ball, knock wallace of his route than dee milliner is. So he gives hartline more cushion because he takes more time to react... those extra two yards is Milliners brain - Cromarties brain + Milliners speed

 

A few pics of other teams playing their high safety at the hash or directly across from the QB:

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Congratulations, genius, you just pointed out what everyone already knows- that Wallace isn't paid heavier attention on every single play. What's next, are you gonna use a photo of a sunny day in Seattle as proof it never rains there?

 

No, he has impact. The impact on that play being the fact that he doesn't run many routes very well.

 

This is my point. Yes, as I previously mentioned, I am aware of where the S is lining up, but technically he is closer to Wallace. Your point about not knowing what their assignments are post snap was actually my next point and why this still photo does not mean all that much. We don't know. If the S does break to Wallace, he is closer, but either way, doesn't mean that much, but have at it.

 

I've been very critical on him, even wanted a new quarterback at some point but that last game, in those weather conditions, has me sold. Still think we should bring in a quarterback prospect in day 3 of the draft, I think a good one can slip, but Tannehill has finally dropped his balls in my opinion.

 

I know right, cause it's so rare to see that number of defenders against trips.

fixed.

Yup, 3 guys on Clay and 1 split between the other two receivers. We're really fortunate he's stepped up the way he has. It's nice to have someone help pull coverage away from our top receiver in order to create single coverage matchups for him that frequently don't exist otherwise, unlike that unexciting Hartline, Bess, and Fasano trio that allowed Brandon Marshall to have coverage draped all over him. You realize that's a big reason for that trips formation with Wallace isolated- to create a matchup advantage that normally doesn't exist, right? If Wallace doesn't see stiffer coverage then there'd be little reason to manufacture those 1 on 1 opportunities.

 

Philbin clearly thinks Wallace runs routes well enough to isolate him on the weak side to specifically run that play to him.

 

Wow.

That was Sooo clever.

 

If Wallace read the coverage properly on that play he'd still be running.

 

And how has that worked out this season?

Personally I'd prefer be giving those opportunities to Riahard Matthews. JMO.

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I'm simply responding to those that say you can see Wallace's impact from the cushion or the position of the safety at the snap. And that is nonsense.

 

But they run plays where Wallace is one of the receivers in the trips. The Hartline TD against the Jets is an example. The fact that on the one play here Wallace is the guy on the other side is not somehow proof that he is personally affecting the coverage or opening things up for other receivers.

 

Well, it is clear than many here keep insisting that single photos or plays with a deep S on Wallace's side are proof of this magical Wallace effect. And all I've been saying is that those plays or photos show nothing of the sort. I'm glad you acknowledge that. So, since you are obviously so much smarter than me and most if the other people here, tell me again where there is any proof or real evidence of any such Wallace effect.

 

With Wallace
Patriots-- free safety 17 yards deep and ready to backpedal upon snap.


Colts-- free safety 21 yards deep and immediately showing respect for Wallace.


Baltimore: safety isn't even in the frame he's so deep.


Steelers: free safety 20 yards deep IN THE SNOW... on FIRST AND TEN!!


San Diego: Corner, SS, and FS all giving Wallace attention with the FS immediately turning toward Wallace and then proceeding after this image to depth of about 25-30 yards like a freshly hooked up marlin headed for a deep run [exactly like happens in the next 2 pics against Carolina].


Carolina: containing Wallace over the top was a priority per Ron Rivera and Wallace still beat it. Once again the FS drops to the deep deep middle.




2012 w/o Wallace
New England: This sums up the season. Free safety less than 9 yards deep and quickly moving forward to 6, more focused on bracketing Fasano to the inside. Neither safety gives a moment's notice to the guy at the bottom of the screen even though Tannehill is staring him down.



Buffalo-- LMAO at free safety at a depth of 10 yards against an empty backfield and 2nd & long.
This one was described by Bleacher Report's Erik Frenz as "This play is an example of what happens when an offense lacks a deep threat."




Yup, it's all in our imaginations that Wallace affects coverage, and clearly there are no advantages created for others when the FS is off in Bum**** Egypt trying to keep Wallace in front of him. It's disappointing that people actually believe this is some sort of concoction or wive's tale. Just like the pics above, Wallace draws the FS over the top; Hartline singled on the outside... Wallace draws the FS over the top; Hartline singled on the outside. It's a fairly common theme this year.


Charles Clay has had a great season in his own right, but he owes Wallace a steak and lobster dinner for opening up much more field this year than he saw in 2012.

 

But often the reason for Wallace being in trips or bunch formations is to give him a clean release and create coverage confusion opposite, not to get Hartline single coverage when defenses give him enough of that w/o the extra effort. The trips is more to utilize Wallace and help free him up b/c defenses are concerned about him on every snap.

 

Way to cherry pick those pics to try to show that safeties never played so deep last year. But here is some video of the targets to Hartline in the first third of last season, before Hartline had even proven he was a legit NFL receiver in his own right:

[video=youtube;fGXnA5ux0gE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGXnA5ux0gE[/video]

On the vast majority of plays, the deep safety is lined up beyond the range of the camera angle, which is usually around 13-15 yards past the LOS. On a few, you can see how deep that deep safety is at the snap. Just a few examples:

At 4:27, you can see the ball is on the 26 and the deep S is 20 yards downfield at the 6 yard line.


At 5:56, the ball is at the 24 and you can see the deep safety's feet at the top of the screen at the 46 or so, 22 yards downfield.


At 9:40, the ball is at the 41 and the deep safety is at the 19, 22 yards downfield.


At 15:24, the ball is at the Dolphin 24 and the deep safety is at the 40, 16 yards downfield.


At 16:31, the ball is at the Dolphins 34.5. At the snap the S is at the Cardinal 49 and retreating. 16.5 yards past the LOS.


At 21:00, the ball is at the dolphin 29 and the deep safety is at the 47 and retreating, 18 yards away from the LOS.


The notion that safeties never played 15+ yards off the LOS before Wallace got here is clearly incorrect.

 

What are the down and distances of the plays each of you are referring to? Both of you. Without that it is meaningless.

 

On the Hartline TD against the Jets, the play was intended to go to Hartline from the start. Tannehill was looking at him before Hartline even crossed the LOS. He never even looked at Wallace. So no, in that instance the trips was not used to free up Wallace. And it does appear to have been done to get Hartline single coverage. Which he got and turned into a TD. Wallace had nothing to do with that TD.

 

Look at the video. It says it there. Do I have to do all the work for you?

 

Mike Wallace changes coverages, how silly is it we are seeing a debate about that. Anyone who is pretending like they believe we saw the same coverages with Davone Bess lined up wide is frankly a dope.

Fineas. Don't be a dope.

 

What's next, are you gonna show us some Vikings tape where there are only 7 in the box and claim AP doesn't open up the passing game?

 

Im gonna need you to develop at least a basic understanding of our passing concepts before you start getting all professorial. The Jets alignment pre snap tells both Hartline and RT where to go on that play. There's a S over Wallace and another on the deep middle. A decent high school QB would know where he needed to go on that one.

 

Yeah, that Vikings passing game is just so wide open . . . .

 

Spare me the condescension. The point is that the play was going to Hartline from the start. It was not to free up Wallace.

 

Bravo! Stick to the one liners bc you're awful at trying to analyze coverages.

 

So it is so because you say it is so? Very persuasive.

 

And how have I misanalyzed any of these coverages?

 

One more time, it was going to Hartline based on the pre snap read i.e. the alignment of the defense. And why was the defense aligned as they were, reverse affirmative action?

 

Yep. I also believe water is wet...

Why?

Because I say so.

 

Your premise is that teams do not take special precautions to prevent Wallace getting deep and that these precautions do not make it easier for our offense to attack other areas if he field, do I have that right?

 

They high safety was on Hartline's side, not Wallace's side. Isn't the argument of the Wallace Effect crowd that defenses roll the high safety to Wallace's side? But there the high safety is on the Hartline side. So what about Wallace in trips caused the defense to put the high safety on the other side?

 

The point just continues to escape you.

 

You're missing the point. There is a safety over Wallace pre snap, he's not the "deep" safety but he is over Wallace and there is an off corner over Wallace as we'll. Meanwhile Hartline is covered by Cromartie who is in press w no immediate safety help available and that snap the deep safety is actually moving away from Hartline and towards Wallace.

 

It's not escaping coming right at him but he keeps turning around and running away.

 

That's a premise but that is not an analysis of coverages. Again, show me some evidence of what those supposed precautions are and that teams use them more on Wallace than other receivers.

It's not giving him a bigger cushion at the snap because they often give Hartline the bigger cushion. It's not keeping the high safety on his side because they typically do that on the right/strong side, which happens to be where we line up Walkace the vast majority of times, and even so, they often put the high safety on Hartline's side. It's not lining up the safety deeper because, as demonstrated, even last year defenses often lined up the safety 17-22 yards off the LOS. So what is it?

And if there is some great Wallace effect, why is Pittsburgh's passing offense as good as it was when Wallace was there. And why isn't the Dolphin passing game dramatically improved despite Tannehill's maturation and improvement? The improvement in productivity is pretty marginal considering how much more we are passing, the shorter field due to actually getting some turnovers and the general abandonment of the run, especially in the red zone.

 

That safety isn't over Wallace in particular. He is in zone and is "over" the trips formation, I.e., all 3 receivers on that side. And he makes no move toward Wallace (because he isn't covering Wallace, he is covering a zone and his responsibility is to pick up whichever receiver comes into his zone). The deep safety isn't moving toward Wallace either, he is moving to the middle of his zone.

 

...which is probably why that notion was never made. Just like your previous attempt, what you're saying in this post isn't telling us anything new, as there of course would be times when the safety played back last year even w/o us having Wallace. We already know how compressed defenses played us last year, as it's been well established by film, analysts, commentators, and opposing players. Your few cherry-picked examples above won't debunk that.

If you want to show Wallace doesn't impact coverage, then find all the examples of the safeties playing as shallow as they did last year. If he truly isn't impacting anything then those pics should be easy to come by.