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Erik Frenz: Tannehill emerging from '12 rookie pack

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Colmax, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    HAHAHAHA. That's a doggone knee slapper right there. You are a funny, funny man!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Are you kidding me? Our offense is playing much better than it did last year and that's with a tossed together OL. A lot of people including Wallace deserve credit for that.

    As far as Pitt goes being "better" without him?? Many factors go into why or why not something is. I could point out that in Mikes tenure in Pitt, they averaged an 11-5 record. Now WITHOUT him...they are 5-7.

    But that's stupid, so I won't.
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Trust me I'm not trying to compete. You have about 14 posts in this thread that are WAY funnier than mine.
     
  4. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    That notion absolutely has been made, both in this thread and others. And the supposed compression of defenses last year has not been well established at all. It has been stated and people have cherry picked a few poor examples, but it certainly hasn't been established.

    Yes, there have been times this year when the safeties have been 8-12 yards off the LOS. I haven't looked for them in video but I have seen it on the field.
     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    look at the sticks, offensive personnel, and/or defensive alignment/personnel. Don't see anything suggesting the safety NEEDS to be at that depth in the pics I listed.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Coverage shells the Dolphins face have changed, but it's hardly the revolutionary, game-changing shift that it was heralded as. That entire argument was predicated on so many questionable assumptions about the nature of coverage in the NFL. In the absolute best case Mike Wallace scenario some of the ideas being thrown out there were far-fetched, much less what has actually occurred in reality.

    Mike Wallace means the range of coverages that the team will see shifts, but within the bounds of typical NFL practices. You want the things people were fantasizing about? Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald kinda guy. Not Mike Wallace.
     
  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    “I thought Mike had a tremendous ball game," Sherman said, via the Miami Herald. "He ran hard, and he ran his routes very disciplined. He was open on a number of occasion and sometimes it was protection issues and we didn't get him the ball, other times we just didn't get him the ball, but I thought Mike had a tremendous impact in that ball game, because he changed how they played us and allowed us an opportunity to control the game with some runs and what not.”

    Yawn..
     
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  8. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Teams play dozens of different coverages over the course of a game. Picking 5 individual plays for either side means very little.

    What interests me in the 'Wallace effect' debate is that A) Hartline's production and efficiency have not improved, and B) our running game is significantly worse than last year's. Those are two things that should be helped along by Wallace's presence. Both these things have not improved even as Tannehill is taking big individual strides.

    When it comes down to it, though, Wallace just needs to make more plays. He's due to single-handedly win us a game or two like his huge contract suggests he will.
     
  9. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Would you mind showing me where the notion has been made that didn't involve intentional exaggeration.

    LOL, yup those damn opposing NFL defenders and their cherry picked stats. It's hilarious that your entire argument revolves around claiming everything is cherry-picked when you're the one in the minority.

    it took me all of ten seconds to round up the pics I just listed, and it's a cakewalk finding examples of compressed defenses last year, so you shouldn't have any problems finding pics of compressed defenses this year if indeed is as common as it was last year. Honestly though, it utterly blows my mind that anyone who has ever watched football would suggest or even hint at the suggestion that defenses play Mike Wallace no differently than Davone Bess, which is basically what you're implying.
     
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  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I agree. Maybe he should start getting behind defensive backs for big plays.


    Wait? What?
     
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  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm not sure how you're gathering your logic but it seems wrong. Firstly, Hartline has more touchdowns through 13 games with Wallace than his prior 3 years combined. Secondly, Hartline had no one but Bess & Fasano to compete with for passes last year. We have more pass catchers in the offense now, so the mere fact Hartline's yardage stats are on pace with last year IS a testament to the Wallace affect. Plus we have Clay headed toward one of the best statistical seasons for a TE and guys like Rishard Matthews having monster games b/c of the attention Wallace draws.

    So what if our ground game has been worse at times this year? Let me know when Wallace played offensive line or show us that his status on the field forced Martin & Incognito to happen. Long is gone, and Claybo started off terribly. Not sure why anyone would expect a receiver to mitigate those woes all by his lonesome. Just for fun maybe check out the nice runs from the Pitt game and see if the coverage respect paid to Wallace didn't factor in at all b/c I believe Tannehill's 57 yarder was aided by that very reason.



    [​IMG]
    Looks like Tannehill was the benefactor of Ryan Clark being 20 yards deep on Wallace's side on 1st & 10 [in the snow no less!!].
     
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  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ummm, because Antonio Brown has matured into awesomeness? Because Emmanuel Sanders has developed more? Because a fifth of last year's passes were by thrown by Batch & Leftwich? Because last year was their first year in a new system?

    We were 30th in passing TDs last year. We're better than double that at 14th.... and if Tannehill can hit Wallace deep just 3 times in stride like you'd expect from an NFL QB, he'd be tied for 8th in passing TDs, and his passer rating would be 89.

    It's not a random coincidence Tannehill has just 1 less TD, a mere 4 points less QBR, nearly equal yards per attempt, and a higher completion% than Brady. It's because Tannehill received a drastic bump in surrounding talent to allow him to play to his second year potential, meanwhile Brady's been tortured with a surrounding cast reminiscent of ours last year, if not worse.
     
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  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If Tannehill can average 2 TDs the final 3 games, he'll have the 2nd highest total since 1989.... which would equate to greater than 10 of Marino's final 11 seasons. I know the league has changed and all, but still, would be impressive nonetheless.
     
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  14. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Well, it looks like the blind Mike Wallace apologists turned a thread about Ryan Tannehill into one about Mike Wallace.
     
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  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    [​IMG]

    Ahem, see the below post that falls first in the chronology. Who's the blind one now? :lol:
    I hope your medical diagnoses are more accurate than your posts.

     
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  16. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Considering that my posts are always accurate, my diagnoses are just as accurate.
     
  17. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I can teach you how to shoot that gun as well.
     
  18. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    1. Hartline has score 4 TD's this, if he scores two more he will equal the total of TD's he had his entire career.
    2. The running game is worse because that is one of the worst OL's in the NFL. Not really sure how you can run the ball with a crappy OL.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Will be a fun topic for after the season, suspect people do not realize how unproductive our Qb position has been for over a decade, aside from Pennington..sheesh..

    Just win, the stats follow winning
     
  20. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    Were you the one that said Jake Long would never play LT in the NFL? Or that the safety from TExas that is with the Seahawks would never be more then a nickel back?

    Always accurate?

    lol
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Running game is more of a trend thing, we had two games with less then 20 yds rushing, we've had the last two games with a 100 yd rusher.

    That reflects the in season rebuild of the offensive line
     
  22. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    I think the OL has played much better since they added McKinnie <sp> and got rid of Martin and Incognito. I really like what Brenner has been doing.. should really be starting ahead of Garner.
     
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  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sorry, I only let the ladies touch it.
     
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  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    What about the trolls who say the say the same ish over and over as if they were ladies?
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sherman doesn't know what he's talking about. He's only been coaching for 40 years. Why, the fellows on this forum who contradict that viewpoint, who knows how many years of coaching experience they have? It must be a huge amount. :whistling:
     
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  26. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Last year Hartline had a 56% catch rate and averaged 14.6 yards per catch. This year he has a 61% catch rate but only averages 12.8 yards per catch. I don't think there is anything in the numbers that conclusively shows that Hartline has benefitted from Wallace. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I don't think it's clearly reflected in the numbers.
     
  27. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    we had daniel thomas against the steelers run for 100+ yards, but thats it, the jets game was a team rushing total of over 100 yards, no individual guy
     
  28. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Yes MrClean, Mike Sherman is always right and everything he says is true. No coach would ever praise a player who us under fire from the fans and media in order to deflect attention from him.
     
  29. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    According to PFF Hartline's catch percentage last year was 62.7. Where does your 56% number come from?
     
  30. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Just got NFL Rewind, so now it is easy to find those compressed defense clips, clips of bigger cushions on Hartline and clips of no deep safety on Wallace's side. I'll start with Game 1.

    Safeties within 10 yards of LOS. Bigger cushion for Hartline.

    [​IMG]

    Safeties within 10 yards of LOS. Bigger cushion for Hartline.


    [​IMG]

    High safety in the middle of the field at normal depth. Much bigger cushion for Hartline.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  31. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Aqua...I got FIFA....how do I play soccer bro?!

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
     
  32. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Way to grab the ones with Joe Haden. Probably the first ones I would've looked for too if I were trying to fabricate your argument. Good job. Like how the safety in the last 2 is ready to backpedal, even on 3rd & 10 when he's 16 yards deep. Do they drop even further after the snap, you know- since I doubt they're gonna make it seem like they're back to return a punt before the ball is hiked.
     
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  34. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Lol that's pretty funny.

    Congrats on getting game rewind but it seems you're too busy trying to prove a point to see what's happening. Notice that Haden was on Wallace all game long, leaving Hartline and Gibson to feast on Buster Skrine and Chris Owens. That's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about when I say Wallace makes it easier for the other receivers.

    You're posting screenies that blow a hole in your argument, you just don't know it.
     
  35. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    OH ****....well, I wonder what the next photo where trips are defended are gonna show....

    I am sure that Wallace will force teams to just leave people open next time.

    Are you trolling?

    In other words...WHAT THE **** DID YOU EXPECT THAT PIC TO SHOW?
     
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  36. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    BTW..isn't it hilarious that the Browns Put Haden on Wallace all game...AND....

    Had him Shade Numbers...locked him within 5 yards and pushed him middle... In those pics, you can discern at least 3 different techniques.

    I mean....I am sure it is just a coincidence that the Rest of our WR's got simple coverages and alignments and Wallace got the kitchen sink thrown at him while one of the best Cover corners in the NFL followed him around.

    I am sure the Dolphins got no benefit from that.


    But hey...Brandon Marshall sucks, ...right?
     
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  37. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    Hartline has more TDs this year than the previous 3 seasons
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Maybe next he'll post the snippets from Browns HC Rob Chudzinksi about Wallace. Here I'll do it for him.
    To sum it up, Chudzinski is CLEARLY saying Wallace commands attention which opens up opportunities for others, Hartline & Gibson in this case. B-O-O-M.
     
  39. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Typical coach speak bs about traditional ideas that stats have debunked.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Cornerback Chris Carr on Mike Wallace:
    Hey lookie there, a top NFL corner noting the extra attention given Wallace. "CONSCIOUS OF WHERE HE IS AT ALL TIMES"!!!... and "REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE DEEP BALL". Say it ain't so, Chris Carr. You gotta pay more attention to ThePhins forum, buddy, so you can get edgumacated on how bad of a vertical threat Wallace is.

    Let me guess, "player's speak", right? :sigh:
     
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