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Erik Frenz: Tannehill emerging from '12 rookie pack

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Colmax, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    LOL. Typical Mississippi St fan speak about an Ole Miss player that waxed you in his final game 45-zip.... with Wallace gaining 117 yards and back to back TDs in the first half to break the game wide open. That's probably THE MOST painful loss you've witnessed as BulldogsJr fan, eh. If Wallace played for South Carolina and did that to Clemson I'd probably dislike him too.... but I wouldn't hold the grudge that long.

    If it's coach speak then why the hell didn't Chudzinski say the SAME THING about Hartline & Gibson?!!! Derp. In fact, when asked about those 2 guys he reverted BACK to Wallace and how Mike can allow those two to hurt you if you pay him too much attention.
     
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  2. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    LOL. I started with the first half of the first game of the season. Yeah, Joe Haden. The guy who ran a 4.52 at the Combine. Good corner, but one of the slower starting corners in the NFL.
     
  3. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that that can be attributed to attention being paid to Wallace. TD's can be pretty fluky. I'd have to actually watch each of Hartlines TD's to see.
     
  4. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    What a joke. Wallace was on the right side all game. Haden is the LCB. So yeah, the LCB lines up on the WR who lines up on the right side of the offense. And they were doing nothing exotic at all. Much of the time there wasn't even safety help on that side.
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Nice conspiracy theory. So, anytime a coach publicly praises a player it is for that reason, or is it only for that reason when it suits your agenda?
     
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  6. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Right, because there are other NFL receivers that a CB can literally ignore and forget where he is. Wallace is so unique in that the CB whose job it is to cover him has to actually be aware of where he is. Most WRs you can just let them run up the field all alone and not even worry about the ball being thrown to them. I mean, if it's not Mike Wallace, it's not like the guy would have any real chance of catching a pass, right?
     
  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    :sidelol:

    You know you're reaching to make an argument when you have to slight one of the game's four elite corners to do so.
    Waving buh bye to your credibility with this type of nonsense. LOL by the way at using his 40 time to call him one of the slower corners in the league. Agenda much?
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Must just be coach speak to deflect attention from all the criticism Wallace is getting from fans and media.

    :sidelol:
     
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  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yes, ANY time a coach says a good word about Wallace it is nothing but coach speak bs.
     
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  10. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    So here are just a few screen shots of the Chargers D on the Dolphins first drive of that game (the game in which Sherman gushed about Wallace's impact on the defense):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The safeties weren't playing deep. They weren't giving Hartline any bigger cushion than they were giving Wallace (often less) and the high safety was often on Hartline's side, not Wallace's.
     
  11. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    As I said, Haden is a good corner. But he's not a very fast one. That is a fact. He is certainly far slower than Mike Wallace, but he was left on an island for much of that game. Neither he nor the Browns coaches acted like they were very worried about Mike Wallace's speed at all. Someone may have said he's good, he's fast, etc., as most coaches and players will compliment the opponent when asked, but they didn't show any special respect in the way they covered him.
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Big deal. He doesn't play 4.52 and he is more than just good. He is probably a top 10 corner currently. BTW, he ran a 4.43 at his pro day. The main point though is Haden is unquestionably the Brown's best corner and he was on Wallace all day. I'd bet Wallace would have loved to been covered by Buster Fooking Skrine.
     
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  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I guess the Refrigerator Perry would get the same attention as Wallace.
     
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  14. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It is for that reason when the coach's statements are false or don't match what is happening on the field. For example, when Ireland praised Gibril Wilson after a miserable season and just a few days before releasing him that was BS. When the they praised Matt Moore right before drafting Tannehill they were being a little insincere. When Philbin was praising Martin early in the season he was either being insincere or ignorant. Etc.
     
  15. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Yes, Haden is good. He's also their LCB. Wallace played on the right side all day. LCB covers WR on right side. I mean, they had Joe Thomas matched up on Olivier Vernon and Dion Jordan all game. Does that show some special respect for them as opposed to Cam Wake? Hardly.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'd bet he doesn't consider his statement false and I'd guess there is a slight chance he knows better than you do what is happening on the field? I dunno, just a stab in the dark there. :shifty:
     
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  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    what a joke of a post. Hyperbole much? You're just proving further and further that you're following a massive agenda...... but why shouldn't you after trying to argue last year that Hartline & Bess are among the league's best receiving duos. :001_rolleyes:

    If you thought they were among the best and they clearly didn't affect coverage, then how could you possibly believe Wallace affects coverage, right? :wink2: If you indeed did accept the fact Wallace affects coverage, it would conflict mightily with and disprove your original assertion about Wallace & Bess, so instead you reach to the absurd depths of intentionally downplaying Joe Haden.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In other games, Wallace has lined up on the left sometimes. Still, he is predominately on the right side, where Hartline was last year. I admit that was puzzling to me why they didn't put Wallace on the left a few times. I'd guess Haden would have went with him, had he done that though I could be wrong. It would be interesting to see how the Browns employed Haden against teams that had their best receiver usually lined up left.
    The offensive line example is comparing apples to oranges. Not relevant to the discussion.

    Edit: When the Browns played the Ravens, Torrey Smith played LWR, and Haden was moved to RCB to cover him. In both of their Ravens games, Haden played RCB and was almost exclusively on Smith. So it stands to reason that had Wallace lined up left, Haden would have went with him. I'm a person who tends to think logically though.
     
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  19. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Of course, you have no idea if he really believes what he said. I've been watching the coach's film of that game. Not sure if Sherman had seen the coach's film yet when he made those statements.

    Would you expect him to say Wallace sucked and had absolutely no impact on the coverages even if he believed that? Have you ever heard any coach say that about any WR?
     
  20. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    And the fact we played Wallace on the left in some other games is not relevant either. Yes the OL example was intentionally absurd to highlight the nonsensical nature of the argument that the Browns must have had a huge amount of respect for Wallace because they covered him with Haden.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Just in case you missed it: When the Browns played the Ravens, Torrey Smith played LWR, and Haden was moved to RCB to cover him. In both of their Ravens games, Haden played RCB and was almost exclusively on Smith. That tells me the Browns cover the opponent's most dangerous WR with Haden.
    So it stands to reason that had Wallace lined up left, Haden would have went with him. I'm a person who tends to think logically though.
     
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    1. Neither do you, though you seem to like to operate under the assumption you do.
    2. Of course not, though I would expect he'd temper his enthusiasm a little if he were disappointed about the performance of a player. It does not have to all one way or the other as you seem to want us to think.
     
  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I don't know why we all can't agree that Wallace's presence is definitely beneficial to the offense, but not to an extreme sense.
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Joe Haden, one of the NFL's best 4 corners was gameplanned to be on Wallace, not Hartline. It wasn't a coincidence that he followed #11 most of the game.

    That means Cleveland gave more attention to Wallace than 30 million dollar Hartline, so if Hartline is at least equal to an average receiver, it means Wallace draws more coverage attention normal. It's simple A+B+C type stuff. The only argument you could make against this is to suggest Hartline is terrible.
     
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  25. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. This argument has become ridiculous. It's straw man vs. straw man.
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The only extreme going on is foolishly suggesting Wallace doesn't affect coverage any differently than Bess, and that the opportunities for others are no different with Wallace on the field than Bess. It's the most ridiculous s*** I've ever heard. This must be how Copernicus and Galileo felt when facing obtuse opposition to Earth not being the center of the universe.
     
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  27. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    You need to go rub one out (plenty of Wallace pics out there for your pleasure :shifty:) and then take a nap.
     
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  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Pull stuff out of your *** much? Your agenda has reached staggering proportions. Haden is NOT a "left corner". He follows top receivers around the field just like in the pics below against Calvin Johnson and AJ Green ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The Browns are so confident in Haden they're even comfortable isolating him on Megatron. So you got two ways you can go with this. You can either retract your silly previous posts about Haden & the Browns coverage against Wallace, or you can even more ridiculously suggest that this is proof that even Calvin Johnson doesn't affect coverage. So what's it gonna be?
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    so what does that mean when coaches and players give even less praise to Hartline?
    Guess that makes the Hitman worth a bag a stale donuts in comparison, eh. :lol:
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They are not insecure and defensive of his performance.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'd love to see his argument in "The Sun Will Come Up Tomorrow" thread.

    "You see, it's actually the human eye that goes through a change each day......"
    . :lol:
     
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  32. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    :lol::up:
     
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  33. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    LOL. Talk about a circular argument. The Browns must have great respect for Wallace because they covered him with Haden who is their LCB and Wallace was on the right side and they presumably would have moved Haden around if We had moved Wallace to the left side because they have done that against other top receivers and no we therefore conclude Wallace must be a top WR.

    Contort yourself as you wish the fact they covered Wallace with Haden is not any kid of sign of great respect or some kind of Wallace Effect.
     
  34. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    He is listed as their left CB. They may move him for some WRs but there is no evidence they moved him for Wallace. Nor did they provide him with any special deep safety help. I realize they don't do that against Green or CJ either, which further confirms my point that defenses don't contort their coverages much for specific WRs, no matter how good the WR is.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    righhhhht, so coaches speak the truth about Hartline but Wallace gets heavily exaggerated? Yeah ok.

    I didn't see Chudzinski saying anything excessively lofty or inaccurate about Hartline, so why would his words about Wallace be deemed as such? Like I said- agendas.
     
  36. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    This pic shows the Pats' extreme respect for Wallace and his downfield threat. Last year, the S would have actually been lined up inside Tannehill's jock strap, but this year, with the Wallace Effect, the safet is almost 3 yards off the LOS.

    [​IMG]
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Talk about a useless response. You said Haden covered Wallace simply because he is the LCB and Wallace lined up at RWR. You were proven wrong.
     
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  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Listed as their left CB? He lines up opposite the opponent's best WR. This has been proven by how he lines up against players like Torrey Smith. If he were only a LCB, when Marlon Brown was at RWR and Smith at LWR, Haden would have stayed put and covered Brown. He didn't. He went to the side Smith was on.
     
  39. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    When did Chudzinski say Wallace caused the Browns to revamp their coverage schemes, play the safeties deeper, or bracket him? He said he's fast and can make big plays downfield. I have never disputed any of that.
     
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  40. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    This is ridiculous. We kept Wallace on the right side, so how was it proven wrong.

    But I think you are missing the forest for the trees. Every team has a perceived "best" receiver. If Haden always covers him, that's fine, but it doesn't mean the Browns are making a special adjustment for Wallace. On the contrary, they are doing what they always do. If a team's best receiver is the 50th best receiver in the league they are doing the very same thing for him that they are doing for Wallace.
     
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