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So would u give Ireland one last year?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It would be in spite of him. It's like I told an intern that I was training at one time. "This patient got better in spite of you."
     
  2. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I don't think McCloughan wants to be a GM again though. If he did, I'd certainly take him. He works for the Seattle organization, but he works from his home in Northern California. There is some cloud of secrecy over his time with the 49ers. I've read that the pressure of the job got to him and he resorted to drinking alcohol heavily. Almost lost his family because of it. I'm not sure if that is 100% true or not, but there is a reason he's only willing to work for an organization from his home.
     
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  3. Fire up the jet
     
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  4. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    KB,

    Obviously we overpaid for Mike Wallace. There's no denying that. I think most of us believed that to be true from the start. It was sort of a necessary evil given our situation. But let me ask you this. Given how open Wallace has been deep and given Tannehill's inability to hit him deep in stride (for whatever reason, including lack of time in the pocket), if Wallace-Tannehill had connected on 4-5 more deep bombs throughout the year that resulted in 2-4 more TD's, 200 yards, and possibly 1-2 more wins (given how close we've played everyone, win or lose), would you lighten up your stance a bit? Or is it irrelevant?

    I don't disagree that Wallace has been disappointing. He has. There have been many of drives killed with his drops and he hasn't been as versatile in his route running as I'd hoped. That said, even though we overpaid, I still see Wallace as having value. He's a game changing player with his speed. He's got 3 years here in Miami at min (2 after this season). I don't think we've yet to see his best. He'll never be a true #1, but I still hold out hope that he and Tannehill will create some big connections in the future and he'll justify some of that contract, but never all of it.
     
  5. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    There's very little Wallace could do for me to soften my stance. The only way would be if he suddenly changes the way he plays and becomes a complete receiver that runs his routes to precision and produces at a level commensurate with his contract (Let's say 1,600+ yards, 20 yards per catch, 10+ TDs, and a DYAR in the 300-400 level). If he's going to be paid like a top receiver, he should produce like a top receiver.
     
  6. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    One thing that hurts is this rookie class. I can't recall a less productive rookie class. These guys are barely producing. And for a #3 overall, I really expected more out of Jordan...injuries, experience and all the excuses, I expect more from a #3 overall, and a rookie class in general.
     
  7. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Off the top of my head....I don't think a receiver has ever achieved those numbers in the history of the NFL. 20 yards per catch?

    He is paid for his expectation....to be a top 5 producing WR. He was that before....he can be again.
     
  8. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Not in this offense where his routes are important.
     
  9. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    So you just gloss over every thing else Section said. Typical.
     
  10. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    What did I gloss over? He's paid to produce like a top receiver. He hasn't produced like a top receiver in over 2 and a half years.
     
  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    He's just lucky his bust signings and wasted picks are making plays.
     
  12. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Over the last 20 years, only 3 guys have done it.

    Devery Henderson
    DeSean Jackson
    and of course...



    Mike Wallace.
     
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  13. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    remember..he also has to have 1,600 yards per KB's criteria..so yeah..never been done in the history of the NFL.
     
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  14. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    In reality..he has to produce the following:

    1,200 yards. at least 9 yards per target. 10 TD's.

    I think he can do that next year.
     
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  15. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    1600 yards itself has only been done 15 times. There's only 1 receiver currently playing who has done it.
     
  16. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    You glossed over the fact you threw out ridiculous expectations.
     
  17. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Look no further than 2010, Odrick, Misi, Jerry, Edds, Carrol, Jones, McCoy, they gave us nothing their first year.
     
  18. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    5 starters.. Horrible draft.Rookies don't always produce their first year.
     
  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember that, but McCloughan doesn't come by himself. He's not GM material. He's not even in Seattle. He has a unique/weird setup where his base of operations is the Bay Area. Why? Because you can't trust the guy. He seems like a great talent evaluator. Not a GM. Schneider and Carroll are pulling the trigger anyway. The Niners got caught for tampering and nobody gets caught so people were wondering what was going on over there. He was also accused of dropping off radar for long stretches of time.

    I think he's similar to De Niro's character in Casino. The mob is content with him just picking winners. Nothing more.

    That said, isn't Baalke his underling or sidekick? He might bring McCloughan with him ...

    Wasn't Carroll's name tossed around a few years ago but we didn't want to cede GM powers to a coach? I don't remember if we interviewed him, or he was just forum fodder.
     
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  20. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Josh Gordon currently has almost 1,500 yards, 19.8 per catch, 9 TDs with 2 game to go. This is a player I'd give Wallace's contract to.
     
  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And then Gordon gets high and gets suspended for eternity.
     
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  22. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_browns_josh_gordon_n.html

    Someone who could be gone for a full year if he smokes a little ganja in the offseason? Or ends up with Codeine in his system for some painkillers? Or whatever crazy **** you can get pegged for in the NFL? Risky call. But I'd be tempted for the talent hes flashed too.

    Even so, we'd still have a portion of the forum freaking out if Ireland gave that contract to Gordon.
     
  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd fire him personally but I think Ross will keep him. If we make the playoffs I can live with it but I do think we will regress if he is kept in charge and thats a shame. We still have plenty of holes, plenty of upcoming FAs and he's mediocre at BEST as a drafter. I think Ross could find a better football guy to run the team but he will stick with Ireland unless we have some sort of epic collapse the last 2 weeks.
     
  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I'm using him as an example of the kind of production and the way he produces on the field. If you look at Gordon's numbers, he's not just a deep threat. He's targeted in the middle of the field more than Mike Wallace has ever been targeted in the middle of the field. He's got 709 yards on 36 receptions in the middle of the field between 0 and 19 yards. 403 of those yards have come after the catch. That's more than 11 yards after the catch per reception.

    For comparison, Mike Wallace has 18 receptions for 227 yards in the middle of the field.
     
  25. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I personally would like to see more forced turnovers. It can be game changing taking the ball from Manning, Brady, Breeze, ect.
     
  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Gordon is a phenomenal WR, but he sounds like someone whom Philbin would not want on his team. I think there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and wannabe GM KB.
     
  27. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    after one year? and of course....he has no off the field issues.....

    But you wouldn't give it to Brandon Marshall?
     
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  28. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wayne flew to Costa Rica to "clandestinely" meet with a vacationing Carroll following the Saban debacle and prior to hiring Cameron. If Carroll had wanted the job with GM powers Wayne would have given it to him.

    Pete just wasn't ready to leave SC at that time.
     
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  29. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

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    Yes Wallace is overpaid but you are overlooking stats. Gordon is the only player besides Cameron worth a damn on that offense. He's getting balls forced to him that would have us screaming for Tannehills heads. Right now it's looking like we could have 2 players over 1k yards with our 3rd receiving if we played Mathews or Gibson all year with over 600 yards then a who's good for another 700 yards. Say what you want about Wallace but I'd say he's pretty damn close to that contract especially lately making huge plays on catch and runs. You can teach a wr to catch, teach him to run better routes, teach him to block but the one thing you can't teach is speed. That speed is world class and even when him and tannehill aren't on te same page, defenses still respect it. It's because of that speed that defensive backs with always have that fear to get beat deep and guys like clay,heart line,Gibson and Mathews will destroy defenses underneath. Plus had tannehill and Wallace been on the same page all year and I'd bet you'd see Wallace's numbers similar to Gordans this year. Tannehill is a young qb that is just beginning to scratch the surface and having a guy like Wallace takes pressure and game planning off Tannehills back.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then we need to get neighbor to spy on him then.
     
  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Send in Nicky Santoro.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess we needed Reggie Bush to get caught cheating a lot earlier!
     
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  33. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd take Gordon over Wallace. Yeah he has had off the field issues but damn he is the 2nd best WR behind Calvin Johnson right now. He's producing with CRAP at the Qb and Rb position and everyone focusing on stopping him, he's the real deal. Sure he could get in trouble again but when your talking risk versus reward you are talking about Gordon. Just keep the guaranteed money down and hes worth signing.
     
  34. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    He's elite and I don't think he has the amount of drops Megatron has either. Gordon over Wallace isn't even remotely a difficult decision. At the beginning of the season you'd probably take Wallace but now I don't think it's even close.
     
  35. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah its going to be interesting what happens with him. Off the field stuff aside he's a no brainer to sign long term but its a big decision for someone to commit guaranteed money longterm to him. But talent wise he's easily in the top 3 on anyone's list of WRs. He's much better than Wallace which isn't so much a dig on Wallace but just a compliment to Gordon.
     
  36. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    He found us our QB of the future and some great draft picks and free agent signings. Not to mention we are 7th best in cap space for next year.

    He gets to finish what he started.
     
  37. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    The question is about 1 last year.

    I don't see a point in keeping him 1 last year.
     
  38. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    What???
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    IDK, think Ireland can bottom feed with the best GM's in the league, also think he sometimes alienates vets and has absolutely awful offensive line talent evaluations skills
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's not really being forced the ball, he's had 10 more targets than Wallace has, and there have been way less interceptions thrown on attempts to him than there have been to Wallace as well.


    I don't know if any of those have happened for Wallace yet.
     

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