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finally, some love for Jeff Ireland

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by the 23rd, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    If you have integrity, and the "boss" is forcing you to compromise your principles and values, then you leave that job.
     
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  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    LOL, so now we've dramatically breached the land of compromised principles and values, eh? WHOA, this is good stuff. Go on. Tell me about the small children that Sargent Parcells ordered Corporal Ireland to toss off a cliff.

    You know what the people are called who don't have to do what a boss tells them? Unemployed...... unless they're self employed.
     
  3. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Bill Parcells ordered Jeff Ireland to give them a code red.
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure your in any position to question Jeff Ireland's character, you should know what kind of character it takes to raise two children who have autism and have a marriage that has withstood..
    I'm not saying thats the reason to keep him, but questioning his character from your seat seems bush.

    Dan henning and Tony sparano...you think a GM deserves that kind of development figures...Chad Henne and pat white...you think Ireland would of picked both?, hell they tried to make pat white a pocket Qb...lol......Parcells gave Ireland a job to watch his back and take over when he felt the team was ready for takeover by his pupil..

    I have no problem with criticism of Ireland, it just makes sense to do it over the last three offseasons..if you wanna fire him based on that then lets hear it..
     
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  5. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Lmao, do you even know what objective means?
     
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  6. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Bunch of cry baby's these guys are.... Can't even enjoy a nice run with this playoff caliber roster. Always looking for the next thing to ***** about, totally unaware of how clueless they really are. This is the same team that started 3-0, the same one that tanked 4 after that. A young one that is very talented, just needs to find itself, gain experience and to build on its consistency.

    The sad thing is that we will always have to hear you complaining about one thing or another like this, even after the current scapegoat is gone.
     
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  7. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Here's all the crybabys pouncing on the Ireland thread ! Let it out sisters ! No, no, your not annoying at all !
     
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  8. dullfandan

    dullfandan Active Member

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    I will give Ireland some credit if his players go in to these last two week and handle biz.. Last week tann put this team on his shoulders and won that game... To this day I still don't believe tann is an Ireland pick.. I think he's a Ross/fan base/forced hand pick... Now make no mistake about it tann is the reason we are even talking about the playoffs..

    cc is a monster, who knew Ireland could find a sleeper... Mathews, meh... Not used nearly enough..

    There's some great special teams players on this club

    wallace is exactly what I thought he was.. Playmaker but he needs the ball in space, although he can make a nice play every now and again, he will also leave you scratching your head...

    this defense is terrible, take grimes off the field and we are that much worse.. Sure we can get after the qb but if we are facing a Brady they will light us up... Thomas made a few great plays last week but overall Brady made us look silly.. But I don't blame Ireland for that..

    sure Jeff gets some credit but I still believe he should be fired..... IMO he has made way too many mistakes...

    am I the only one who thinks that anymore? Are we all homers now because we could win 9-10 games if we play flawless football over the next two weekends... We are a young team but I felt we should be winning 10 games a season by now Jeff...
     
  9. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    23rd, you're fighting a losing battle here. There is a portion of this forum that no matter what Ireland does from this past year out, it won't matter. He is the bane of all Dolphin existance. He caused every loss we've had since he's been here, including his time under the Fat One. He secretly pays Ellerbe and Wheeler to miss tackles and has a bounty for every dropped pass (to the offensive players). He actually paid RI extra to go out and bully that poor dear Martin and then coerced Martin into going public with his dirty laundry. Many here actually believe he paid DJ Swearinger to hit Keller's knee and put him out for the season. These same folks believe that he goes out there and has a magical Madden controler that he can make up how games play out. They think he sleeps with the devil and also caused global warming. Don't try to defend him because it will fall on their deaf ears....

    The one thing that we have to rely on at this point is that Steven Ross will decide whether he stays or goes, not any of us (right, wrong or indifferent). Personally, it doesn't matter to me so long as whoever takes his place can continue to work with and get Philbin the players he needs something that Ireland has been able to work with Philbin on....
     
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  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    You WANT him on that wall...you NEED him on that wall!
     
  11. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Oh, and I forgot one other thing, some here believe he flew out to the West Coast a few years ago and actually talked Jim Harbaugh into NOT coming on board with the Fins...and he paid Jake Long's moving expenses and traveling expenses when he was being courted by the Rams...
     
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  12. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    1) KingMotion, ask yourself: "Jesus. Do you people make reality up as you go? Your deduction is no substitute for the truth." your answer will set you free & improve your posting on the board 100%.
    2) a monster offensive line & one of the best minds in offensive football came together under the big tuna to give us a play-off. would really like to see Pennington as part of our future coaching staff... imagine him working with Tannehill!

    oh! almost forgot your old regime posts, you were big on Sparano & Chad Henne. must of been quite a disappointment for you to finally have to say good bye to the incompetent ones. spin it as you will, you have a history of betting on the wrong horse & an axe to grind with the current regime.

    "I heard Chinese state run TV had a very positive piece on Chairman Mao the other day. Took the media long enough :shifty:" simply hubris, almost clever... having said that, did you read the other article?
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    We're not talking about principles and values, we're talking about the way you do your job. Its the equivalent of the boss telling his secretary how to file and you're making it sound like the boss is telling him to shiv babies.

    I'm fairly certain, in NFL circles, Ireland's rep would be more tarnished if as a first time GM he told Bill Parcells he didn't know what he was talking about.
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    When the argument devolves into what happened 4-5 years ago and not what is unfolding now, then you know it is a reach. If Jeff Ireland was going to be fired for what happened in 08-10, he'd have already been fired. The reality is that his 11-12 drafts have been home runs and there is no way for the anti Ireland cult to spin that.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  15. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    We have a 25 year-old franchise QB.
    We're probably making the playoffs in his second season...
    ...with one of the NFL's youngest rosters...
    ...potentially going 10-6.

    Draft picks of recent years are developing into very nice franchise players: Odrick, Vernon, Reshad, Clay, Mathews, Carroll, Misi. Free agents are making big impacts: Grimes, Gibson, Hartline, Wallace.

    If Ireland wasn't fired 2-3 years ago, why would he be fired now? He found a franchise QB and we're, like, winning.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The reason he should be fired, and if true I agree with, is that he forced Martin and Cogs on Philbin this year when Philbin wanted neither. Those two between the scandal and poor play, cost us the division this year and the biggest scandal the Dolphins ever had.

    The thing is that's a sound enough argument to want him fired but when people start blaming him for Parcells stuff, it cheapens the argument.
     
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  17. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    What should he have done, do you think, cut or traded them? Not drafted Martin in the first place? Or do you mean Philbin didn't want them as starters?

    I just feel like personnel issues like drafting Martin are a crap-shoot, like any draft pick. Sometimes it really works out to take higher-projected talent that fell due to off-field issues (Janoris Jenkins), and sometimes it doesn't (Aaron Hernandez). And it's not like Ireland hasn't actually done this with/for Philbin before when you're talking Vontae Davis or even Marshall.

    To me, the GM's #1 job is to find a franchise QB and build a structure around him that will enable his development - coaching, offensive philosophy, pass-catchers, etc. It took a while, but Ireland is doing this really well right now with Tannehill playing like he has been. Look at the positivity on this board and even in the (national) media: Winning cures everything.
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    So tell me, does a man of integrity ask a prospect if his mother was a prostitute when you knew the answer and what the reaction would be beforehand? Does a man of integrity willingly go along with the clueless owner and interview a coach before you have fired your current coach? Then come back and try to convince you that nothing wrong was really done? Does a man of integrity make the comments that Jeff Ireland made to Jonathan Martin's agent? Does a man of integrity refuse to release a player who has no future with the organization and keep him from being able to catch on with another team?

    The answer to all is no.
     
  19. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Sorry, but outside of Ryan Tannehill, no one that Jeff Ireland has drafted is even close to a franchise player. Not a single one. He has not hit on any high level talent that is a true difference maker.

    Let's detail some of the players you mentioned:

    1. Olivier Vernon -- Solid pass rusher when moved around. He's better at rushing the passer from over the guard than he is from around the edge. He's weak against the run. The limits of his potential is as a Wallace Gilberry type of third defensive end that you need to move around to have him productive.

    2. Jared Odrick -- Solid role player up front. Better against the pass than he is against the run.

    3. Reshad Jones -- Might be the dumbest player on the team. Takes bad angles consistently. Misses tackles. He's better when he's in a position to freelance. He's not going to make anyone think of Ed Reed anytime soon.

    4. Charles Clay -- Nice player, not an ideal tight end. Not a seam threat. Better playing detached from the line. Ideal role is as a jack of all trades that is combined with a bigger tight end who can attack the seam.

    5. Rishard Matthews -- Nice player, but not a major play maker. Better outside than inside. Strong hands, physical body, potential to be a James Jones type of receiver.

    6. Nolan Carroll -- Solid third cornerback that has played over his head this year. Candidate to be overpaid and will likely regress back to the mean of his young career.

    7. Koa Misi -- Solid run defender that offers little else.

    I look at that list, and I don't see a Joe Haden type of shut down corner. I don't see a Josh Gordon type of offensive difference maker. I don't see a Jimmy Graham type of difference maker.

    Our coaching staff is currently winning with players who would probably not be starting for most teams in the league, but as fans tend to do, you guys have overrated the Dolphins talent because of the run they have made against some other mediocre teams.
     
  20. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    KB21 integrity?
    1) "Does a man of integrity..."
    2) "... no one that Jeff Ireland has drafted is even close to a franchise player. Not a single one."

    glib? sanctimonious at best, bordering hypocrisy...
    just another over zealous hater?:crapstrom:

    hopefully, none of the above...
    probably just having a bad day.
    yes, I'm going to go with having a bad day.


    Miami by 10 :dolphin:
    & a very good day for our beleaguered Dolphins in Buffalo
     
  21. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with all of this. Something I would be interested in knowing is if Ireland or Ross really wanted Philbin? I remember when he was hired there was talk that Ross basically hired him. If that is the case then its another reason to move on. The sad thing is that this fan base is so hungry for any type of success that we might sacrifice a opportunity with a great young Qb to stick with a mediocre GM who can't build a complete team. I have very little faith that we can take the next step with another offseason led by Ireland. I could see us winning 9-10 games this then winning 7 next year with him at the helm. I am beginning to suspect that we will keep him regardless of how the next 2 weeks shake out which is a shame, he just doesn't deserve to stay on. One of the biggest things to me is the character issues you brought up, I just would like to see our organization have some higher standards for conduct that what Ireland brings. Between the Bryant fiasco, Harbaugh/Sparano nonsense and the Incognito/Martin soap opera he is a guy that shouldn't be held on by a quality run organization.
     
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  22. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    While some want to now, with a few wins under our belt, credit Jeff Ireland once again as a positive influence they fail to recognize that, with the overruling of Joe Philbin as to the removal of Rotten Richie in 2012 as well as the drafting of Jon Martin whom Joe determined to be unqualified to play at this level, Jeff and his Bad Cop cohort almost brought this team to its destruction.

    Thru it all the only man standing tall was our HC Joe Philbin.

    The very best thing that can happen, long term, to Joe Philbin and this franchise is the complete removal of the last components of the Tuna stink that was the last of a long line of poor moves by Wayne H beginning with the sorry treatment of Don Shula.

    Fire the SOB and lets get rolling once again.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, this isn't about drafting Martin (I actually think Ireland's drafting since Parcells has been quite good overall, poor for oline). This is about this past offseason Philbin wanting a better LT brought in and Ireland not doing it. This is also about Philbin wanting Cogs gone after the golf incident and Ireland not getting rid of and replacing him. Its one thing for Ireland to not do that, its another for him to not do it and blows up in the organization's face so spectacularly.

    Yes, its GM's main job to get a franchise QB and few people here are more in Tannehill's corner than me, but that's the only part of his job that matters.
     
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  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    We KNOW that Ireland called Mike McCoy to tell him that he was getting the job before Joe Philbin was hired. Jeff looked like he was constipated at Joe's initial press conference. You could tell that this was not "his" hire at that time.
     
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  25. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    What a great topic to discuss after the season is over. I will just be a fan the next 2 weeks and hope we make the playoffs. Go phins!!
     
  26. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here here!! I never wanted Parcells in Miami to begin with, and the day we get rid of his last vestiges will be a great day and a true sign that this organization has turned the corner.
     
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  27. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Stephen Ross talks to Joe Philbin a lot. Don't think for a minute that Joe has failed to bring up the fact that he does not have the power to build this team to his values and vision when he keeps getting overruled by the GM on the poor character and dead weight that is bringing the team down.
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No way dude. Ireland's NFL future would've been in twinkle lights if he insubordinately told that peon Parcells whats up. It's not like the league is heavily connected or Grandfather Bill was massively respected among it or anything. :wacko:
     
  29. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    That's sort of what I was implying. He could have left, let people know he felt the team was crumbling and when we eventually did, he'd look great in comparison to what he left.
     
  30. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Apparently it means that I have to support everybody associated with the team. In a thread clearly supporting Jeff Ireland with a story produced by the team itself, I'm apparently the biased one because I'm critically evaluating the source as well as the entire tenure of Jeff Ireland. I mentioned some really good players that Ireland has acquired and juxtaposed them with some of his clunker acquisitions giving both sides of his job performance. I then asked the question whether the good outweighed the bad. You really need to get out of your own ***. You have this thing where anyone who has a differing opinion from you is inferior but you are only good at insulting people and terrible at actually arguing things.
     
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  31. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Could people stop pretending that the NFL is like any other business? There are 32 closely tied competing businesses that don't really compete, routinely share information, and give unprecedented power to their employees. In the NFL, it is VERY likely that if an employee doesn't like what's going on, they will walk.

    BB ran away from the Jets, players hold out unless traded, executives step down, Jerry Jones is a thing. The NFL is not typical of business so most of these analogies are invalid.
     
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  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin didnt want Richie around in 2012. He wanted to cut him in camp because of his attitude and the golf incident. He also asked Ireland to upgrade the LT spot and Ireland never did. And yes, its the GM's job to listen to the HC when he tells him he needs an upgrade over a player. Even if he had simply brought in McKinnie to push Martin that would have counted as a try. Instead we wasted half our season with a turnstyle LT and nearly got our franchise QB killed. Sacks with Martin in there were around 5 (4.8) per game and with McKinnie we're at half that.

    A GM wears a lot of hats for a team and they have their hands in nearly every aspect of the organization. But the GM shouldnt be the center of attention and shouldnt constantly be surrounded by scandals and bad press. The Dez incident, The fact that he cost us players in free agency and in resigning them (Ryan Clark, Channing Crowder), the Harbaugh mess, The fact that he announced McCoy as a coach prematurely, and now the Richie-Martin mess is all on his watch. Combine that with a consistently mediocre record and personnel evaluations and tell me again why so many people are fighting to keep this guy around? Someone tell me again how Tom Heckert (he of a single DUI) is more of a black eye when hes been a great personnel evaluator. Tell me again why a first time GM like a Russ Ball, Marc Ross, Omar Khan or Eric DeCosta would be less worthy when they all come from quality run organizations who are almost never involved in the amount of BS Jeff Ireland constantly finds himself knee deep in.
     
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  33. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I couldn't have said it better myself. There are those on here that are clearly going to try and rationalize Jeff's lack of integrity and his actions in the Dez Bryant case, the Jim Harbaugh case, the announcing Mike McCoy prematurely, the not releasing Richie Incognito, and his comments to Martin's agent.

    It's up to Stephen Ross. How much public embarrassment is he willing to take before he pulls the plug on Jeffy boy?
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's why I asked if you had a job. Like I said earlier, this isn't a boss forcing you to go against your belief structure. This is a boss telling you how to do your job. Your boss being an accomplished and respected figure in your profession and you being a rookie. No one quits immediately after that sort of thing and if they do, they are looked at as the problem. All jobs require you to pay your dues. Its an entirely naive notion that if your boss tells you how to file and you think you should file a different way then you should quit.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    On individual level its exactly like every other business....except nepotism is even more rampant, which is why you don't piss off a Parcells.

    BB turned down the Jets job BECAUSE he had a better job lined up, if he hadn't, you can bet he'd be their coach. You cannot get higher up than head coach if that's your thing, nor can you really get much higher up than GM if that's your thing. You're expecting someone to walk away fromt hat job just because they don't agree with their boss.....especially knowing their boss won't be there for long?
     
  36. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stay on topic and stop taking potshots please.
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Let's fix this bold statement. In the NFL, it is VERY likely that if an employee doesn't like what's going on with the way Bill Parcells is running the ship and they show their disproval of it, there's a fair chance they receive a poor endorsement from Parcells which could do significantly MORE damage to their reputation in the close knit NFL circle than anything you're suggesting.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's just your opinion, and I seriously doubt Ireland cares more about fan perception of himself than his chance at becoming 1 of 32 people in the country who run an NFL team, and obviously his reputation wasn't damaged in the Parcells fire b/c he's now the GM of the Dolphins.

    AGAIN, if Ireland quit during Parcells' tenure, would he or would he not be an NFL GM at the moment? Do you and KB honestly have such whacked out moral compasses that you feel an aspiring NFL GM should quit a job and potentially jeopardize a lifelong dream just b/c he disagrees with the way his temporary boss is managing things? You realize that could also be a reason to STAY, right? ....you know- an opportunity to fix everything once it becomes his show. Leaving would've been a quitter's mentality, a display of poor loyalty to the organization. Sticking through it and trying to right the ship is significantly more respectable and principled than quitting a flailing organization.
     
  39. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    I can see Ireland getting the axe bc of his perception, along with the Incognito incident and all.

    I don't see the boards attitude that he is simply bad at personnel... This team for years now has had pretty damn good talent and was just missing a QB. Now we have a QB and are reshaping the personnel to fit a new style, and you have to have Philbin involved with recent moves too if u don't like the moves, like getting rid of Marshall, Vontae, Smith, Dansby, Bush, etc. some of these moves we haven't gotten back what we've wanted for sure.

    Overall though I do think the teams talent is very good. It's not Ireland's fault we lost games we should have won like the Bills, Bucs, etc., that's on coaching IMO.
     
  40. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     

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