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If you could only fire one, who would you let go? Philbin or Ireland?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Dec 24, 2013.

HC or GM?

  1. Philbin

    8.8%
  2. Ireland

    91.2%
  1. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I really don't get it either. It's amazing how quickly fans want people fired. This team is going into Week 17 with a solid chance to make the playoffs and yet some want the head coach who hasn't even been a head coach for 2 years gone.

    Nevermind the fact Philbin started with a raw, rookie QB. A QB who is developing nicely by the way.

    Ireland is obvious. He's been here 6 years and has nothing to really show for it. But wanting Philbin fired IMO is completely idiotic.
     
    mlb1399 likes this.
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sorry. Just trying to help you out.
     
  3. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    Seriously, Philbin is on the fringe of getting into the playoffs in his second year with a second year QB and the worst offensive line ever and some want him fired. Unbelievable.
     
  4. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Superbowl or nothing.
     
  5. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I wonder if Panthers fans still want Rivera fired now like they did last year.

    Good thing fans don't make these kinds of decisions.
     
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  6. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Look at Pete Carroll. Has he suddenly become a much better coach at age 62 than he was when he was 42 with the Jets? Or does he simply have better players now?

    Look at Nick Saban in college. Nick Saban was essentially a .500 coach at Michigan State. He goes on to LSU and Alabama, and he wins national championships. Did he become a better coach, or did he simply have better players?

    Is David Shaw at Stanford a better coach than Jim Harbaugh? His record is better than Harbaugh's at Stanford. Or does he have better players than the players Harbaugh started out with? Harbaugh was 4-8 and 5-7 in his first two years at Stanford.

    Explain to me how Ken Whisenhunt coaches the Cardinals in the Superbowl when he has Kurt Warner at QB, but can barely muster a winning record without Warner?

    The players are what makes the difference. Not the coaches.
     
  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yup, and we're basically in the exact position most thought we'd be in before the season started: A fringe playoff team.

    We have a young QB who has progressed. We are heading in the right direction. I do agree we need a new GM and we need to rebuild the offensive line.

    What we certainly do not need to do is fire the head coach, who has as much experience at his position as Ryan Tannehill does. Not even through his second year.

    Philbin is certainly not perfect, but he doesn't have the plethora of respect around the league for nothing.
     
  8. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    anybody that votes nobody cant be serious about winning . the denial of some fans is beyond insanity good coaches don't pull the jaws of defeat out of the jaws of victory .
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol..you think he's a good coach because he uses advanced analytical tracking devices.?..damn that sounds cheesy and incomplete man..you can do better than that..

    He's won more games than he should have...BS...he got beat by the bills at home, blowout on the road, beat by the bucs, and he won games against a completely undermanned patriot team..

    I don't know at this point if the guy is the right man..I'll get deeper after the jet game..it's a must win, and your tone and conviction does not say that at all..
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the talent was good enough to win some of the game we lost no?
     
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  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I think the issue is youth and inexperience. We are one of the youngest teams in the league, and that's why we are a very up and down team who sometimes has problems finishing.
     
  12. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The fact that this team is so up and down is a reflection of the talent. The lack of consistency in performance is a talent issue, not a coaching issue.

    This team is not very talented, and it is not put together well at all. This coaching staff has maximized the talent on this team.
     
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  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think his potential as a head coach is unlimited because of the fact that he is into advanced analytics and goes against traditional NFL thought on a lot of things. Would really like to see him paired with a GM that also uses advanced analytics.
     
    ASOT likes this.
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Once again.."his potential is unlimited because he uses advanced analytics"

    I'm sorry, this doesn't sound right..and it's hard for me to take your opinion on this specific matter seriously when you talk like this.

    Jim Harbaugh has unlimited potential, because,he's fu@&ing Jim Harbaugh and you can tell he knows how to Inspire a group of men.
     
    toto likes this.
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You might be right in this, I really don't know until after the jet game..maybe the online matchup against the bills is so one sided the team takes a defeatist attitude into the game.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Harbaugh uses advanced analytics, as well. IIRC, they have an entire department for it.
     
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  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know man..sounds like BS to me..there's plenty of vets on this team..plenty.
     
    toto likes this.
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And that's fine, it has nothing to do with the makeup of a great head coach, meaning you better have what it takes to walk inside a locker room, demand respect, and inspire all players to play as one, to play their hardest, and to run thru walls just for you..don't have that, then you can put tracking devices on their asses it ain't gonna matter..

    Lol, advanced analytics..
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think you need your Head Coach to motivate you. Didn't Sparano have that trait? He was a bad Head Coach. I don't see Bill Belicheck acting the way Harbaugh acts. If anything, he acts like Philbin.
     
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  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    These coaches can't even move our pocket for a Qb that is freakin really good going from left to right, they go game stretches without calling a freakin read option run play when they guy is running at ten yards a clip..

    They don't even run a goddamn bootleg when the Qb is lethal on the run..

    Tell you what I've seen during this decent stretch of game before last one, I've seen some guys making individual plays, not coaches getting players open or in position to benefit from the scheme all by itself..

    If Clay doesn't make an incredible fourth down individual play, I highly doubt any of you would be speaking so highly..

    Lets not give them to much credit is all I'm saying..not showing up in buffalo was mindset as much as anything..mindset imo is the responsibility of the coach.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Better win the freakin game..or the jets finish ahead of you with a scrub rookie Qb.
     
  22. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wannstedt, Mueller, Speilman even Cameran had fans.. Sparano too... that's the thing I have to remind myself each time I read this ridiculous support for Ireland... homers as long as they're employed to the Dolphins, even the stadium janitors are great..
     
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  23. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Tap dancer !
     
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  24. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    and the backtracking has begun......tap tap tap !
     
  25. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    So, you stick the new GM with a coach NOT of his choosing? Or make keeping Philbin a condition of taking the GM job, and perhaps lose out on some candidates?

    Yes, NFL life is tough and unfair at times. Philbin has not been bad as a coach, but not great either. I'd be fine with letting the new GM review his work over the last two seasons (so, after this season wraps up) and make a decision about retaining him. I'd certainly prefer that even if Philbin stays he gets a younger OC to replace Sherman.
     
  26. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All the unconfirmed reports and gossip are to the effect that Ireland is an asshat and the players don't like him. As unreliable as those reports are, they seem to be corroborated by facts we do know, such as free agents being lowballed and asking Dez Bryant whether his mother was a prostitute.

    If a general manager with bad people skills is a great talent evaluator, one has to put up with his personality. Ireland has found some good players, but has whiffed big time on others in the higher rounds, and his record of signing free agents who come in for visits has not been good. At least not good enough to outweigh his being an asshat, if the rumors are correct.
     
  27. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    It goes beyond being an asshat. I think it stems from for many years he was the best scout in the room, making him arrogant and giving him an inflated self image. Now that he is at the pointy end of the NFL food pyramid he is no longer the smartest guy in the room, he's just another guy. And when you're just another guy you don't have any reason to be arrogant and treat other people like lesser beings. I would put forward Nick Saban as another man who was a big fish in a small pond who couldn't cope with being a minnow at the upper reaches of the NFL.
     
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  28. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Inspiring a group of men is overrated, athletes such as Charles Barclay have come out and said as much. You want to inspire them? You put your foot down and trounce the other team like what NE did to the Ravens or Philly did to the Bears. You put trust that they can get a 4th and a yard, until they prove otherwise. Players get much more "inspired" from that than any gung ho speech.
     
  29. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You are ignoring the fact that our completely undermanned team beat NE's undermanned team. Of course were their issue comes from injuries ours come from our GM who assembled the worst OL, running backs who are inept in all 3 phases of the game and of course managed to make our great defense worse with 3 high round draft picks and the "upgrade" at LB.

    Going beyond the advanced analytics, our head coach has managed to take this roster, make them a playoff contender, add to last years win total and has us playing for a possible winning record and the possibility of playoffs. I know this isn't the endgame but it's a great start, especially with the glaring holes this roster has.

    You just don't fire a coach on his second season when the team is winning more games with a young roster and QB. Half of our starters are new. Many of which are learning a new system.
     
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  30. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bull crap.

    Maximized? You are out of your mind.
    The players won games this year, not coaching. There have been very few games where the coaches called a game that or outcoached someone...if any.

    Now you're right about one thing. I think talent is an issue...especially at entire units (O-Line, RB, LB).
     
  31. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    My answer comes with a caveat. I think Philbin has earned Ross' trust and is his guy moving forward. That said I believe the main thing Ireland's job should be decided on is his ability to provide and work with Philbin and his coaching staff. Thus I think Ross should ask Philbin if Ireland shoul be kept and then be highly active in the pursuit of his replacement. Then in the following offseason Philbin and co. Will be held directly responsibility.
     
  32. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So well said DJ.

    Where is this team without Clay's individual contribution vs San Diego, Pittsburgh, or New England?

    5-10..Think about. Add in Cam Wake & Brandon Fields' vs Bengals and we're talking about a Top 3 pick maybe.

    We would have complained and moaned about how Miami only put up 9 points against THAT Chargers defense. How you could call a pass play behind the LOS on 4th down...How our defense always caves after score.

    The same damn things we've been complaining about this staff already right? Only difference? Clay.
     
  33. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    :lol: This shows your limitations in this debate. Par for the course.

    Your confusing my argument of this flawed logic, with just simply defending the GM. I can see the good and the bad, it's simple really, when your a true fan. Others will continue to cherry pick and skew the facts to support their endless arguments on who to blame for what.

    Try looking at things objectively. Yes, I can back him up and still say he has his faults..... Obviously no one is perfect, and player personel is not an exact science.

    If there's a better GM out there.... I want that dude. Still, Constantly b1tching that Ireland should be replaced by just about anyone , because of a a few weak spots.... All while ignoring every other possible factor in what's causing us to win or lose games... Is beyond moronic, and embarrassing to the good fans that just want to win.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your thinking that I'm thinking rah rah is what I'm looking for in a coach..
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    once again, your minimilizing what I'm talking about..it's not about a speech..

    My debate in this thread is that some of the losses we've had were not because a lack of talent.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have not called for his firing..

    I'm trying to figure out how we lost control of our season with a all world *** showing with everything on the line..
     
  37. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I am in the blow it up camp. That includes Philbin because I do believe he is slow to deal with glaring problems or to make staffing changes that are necessary without said coach having his unit completely screw the pooch.

    We got something going offensively, but we need to evolve from Sherman....especially Ryan. He can't go through life limited by one OC's vision of him.

    Our best defensive players are over 30 with questionable youth (even Vernon due to his run blocking and his 7 sacks coming in 4 games...blip?). Bloated overpaid piss poor LB's and Coyles questionable schemes. So blow up that defense from the HC coach down. Drastic.....yes. But I don't see a consistent playoff team with these coaches.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Everyone knows the bill front line is badass beastly..everyone knows our oline sucks ***.

    Runs up the middle between the a gaps..stationary pocket..one or the other, no misdirection, no deception, nothing outside the tackles, no moving pocket, no bootlegs, no Ryan finding a lane and running..no read option..

    Should we have done a better job predicted what was gonna happen and game planned accordingly.?
     
  39. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    And that's on the coaches. Combine with our drafting/FA pickups.......BLOW IT UP!
     
  40. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    this is the most ill-conceived, ridiculous thread...
    a veiled attack on Ireland & a totally negative, worthless piece that does nothing to brighten Christmas or improve the franchise or forum.

    by the way, Merry Christmas to everyone & the very best in the coming New Year!
     
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