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Potential 2014 Defensive Lineup

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by RoninFin4, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Patterson is a lock to be cut, he's 5.4 mil against the cap next year and we can cut him without any dead money.
     
  2. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't say lock, he is certainly the most appealing option but if by some dark reason Grimes, Carrol, and Stanford are all on new teams next year Patterson will surely be a Miami Dolphin.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm pretty sure this is the way to go..

    Lets see, we have..

    Grimes

    Carroll.

    Clemons

    Starks

    Solai

    Incognito

    Stanford

    Patterson.

    If it allows us and we have enough space to do so, I would sign Clemons, Grimes, Starks, Solai...I would cut Patterson..incognito..Carroll..Stanford..

    If we have some left over, sign Patterson to an incentive laded deal..

    Do folks think that's unreasonable with our cap space.?
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He's only been thrown at 14 times and allowed a whopping 6 catches. 61 yards allowed, and 43 of them came on one play.
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Not sure we can afford both Soliai and Starks. If it's an either/or, I'd want Starks. I think we should be able to afford Carroll, and now that he's finally showing signs of being a decent corner, in his 4th season, I'd hate to give up on him.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Late last season, around the time his mom died, was the only slump by Starks I can recall. He has been a pillar of strength and consistency otherwise.
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, it's more frequent than that. Pretty much every professional season besides the ones I've noted he's had streaks where he wasn't very effective, or was just solid on the season.

    Even seasons when he was at his worst, he'd have flashes and dominated stretches, so people tend to forget it. Soliai is the same way, to a lesser extent.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you cut Patterson, you have 25 mill..

    Lets say 9 mill for grimes..6 for Starks..4 for Solai..4 for Clemons...maybe you can get Carroll for 3..
     
  9. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think a lot these numbers are wishful thinking as they're all going into unrestricted free agency.

    I think Grimes will be tagged and both Carroll and Clemons will receive contracts higher than most realize. 5/25 or even higher. I see Patterson getting cut with the rooks being expected to step up. I see both Starks and Soliai walking if for no other reason than Odrick's contract comes due soon. I think we'll have to sacrifice a big ticket DT to bolster other areas.
     
  10. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Typical Jeff Ireland roster management. Create a hole to fill a hole.
     
  11. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    Maybe...but we're in a situation where a lot of contracts come due at the same time. Not to mention, we have to look past this off season as it won't be long before we have to re-up Odrick, Clay and Vernon.
     
  12. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I think that is true of virtually every DL in the league. They all have dominant games (2-4 sacks) and some games when they do very little. Sure, the elite ones are more consistent in that they are greast more often, but I don't think Starks is any less consistent than most guys of his talent level.
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bumping this, kudos to whomever it was (Anonymous maybe, I can't remember), that pegged Lamarr Houston as a potential DE for this defense. He'd be a big $ free agent, but I think he'd be a great fit.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Would he also be most likely Raider to get the Franchise tag?
     
  15. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd imagine it's between he and Jared Veldheer, though I think Oakland has enough cap space for both.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, thinking we have any reasonable chance at signing a player like Houston is no more than a pipe dream. One of the two will be resigned and one will be tagged before any other team gets a crack at them.
     
  17. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i think we have more than 25 million DJ
     
  18. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Great write up. I hope we don't draft OL high. I don't think a 0 must be Soliai-size type player. There are 3-gappers who can play a 0. It's important to have athleticism. I would not resign Starks nor Soliai. This draft is littered with DTs, and awesome ones too. That money should be spent on Oline in FA. Spending high picks on Oline is foolish.
     
  19. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Probably is.

    I'm still a fan of Louis Nix in the draft, but if they bring back Soliai, I think he goes up in smoke. Guys like Dominique Easley, Aaron Donald, Will Sutton might be interesting if you're looking for a Geno Atkins-esque 3 technique. I like Ra'Shede Hageman and Stephon Tuitt quite a bit as well at 5 technique guys.

    I just fear that Miami's going to have their hand forced because of the O-line situation, especially if Jeff Ireland is still around. Though, I could see Jeff giving Denver a call and seeing what it'd take to get Ryan Clady to shake loose...and I wouldn't be that mad about it, at all.
     
  20. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    I don't think there is a chance in hell Patterson comes back if he can be cut to save 5 mill. We didn't draft corners in the 2nd and 3rd for them not to play.
     
  21. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    At this juncture, if we choose to roll over the cap space we currently have (approx 17.8 million) into next year's cap we will be somewhere around 38 million under.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sounds like a special player.
     
  23. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Omar?
     
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  24. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Interesting, but I just can't see Dion Jordan at MLB. Imo you'd want him out wide in more space to take advantage of his pass rush, movement skills and ability to cover. I could see WILL or SAM, but given his size and ability to cover larger TEs that are all the rage now, I'd put him at SAM and let him develop there. The coaching staff can develop plenty of schemes with him moving around a la Bokamper, Matheson and Jason Taylor, but Jordan is a far superior athlete to all of those guys. He was drafted #3 overall because he's hugely talented, and a good coaching staff would find ways to make use of his incredible skill set.
     
  25. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Liked his potential and overall numbers on occasion but I could never get past his eye test on quite a few angle of attack against the run. Pitts game where he was half a big toe away from giving up a winning TD is just one example. Go back and watch enough tape on him I see too many poor angles like that imo. He is an OK safety but not a priority for me if there is a more dynamic one available for my money
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure it can be done Jim, but I agree with Matt, I think his skillset shines when he's in the middle of the field..His pass rush is just not good enough to fixate him on the edge..
     
  27. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think if Kevin Coyle is still Miami's defensive coordinator in 2014, you'll see Dion Jordan groomed into what Michael Johnson has become for the Bengals. When Johnson came out of Georgia Tech, he was a little light, so they played him as a stand-up OLB in sub-packages. Since being drafted he's put on about 20lbs and has become their open-side end. I think Dion Jordan, if he can bulk up a bit and add more strength, will overtake Olivier Vernon and become the starting DE opposite Wake.

    I think Mike Mayock was pretty right-on at the Draft when he said Dion Jordan reminded him of Jason Taylor. I think that's Jordan's ceiling; Jason Taylor in the 2005-06 Nick Saban defense is the type of player I think Jordan could become.

    Comparing the players, at least who Miami has under contract heading into 2014:

    Open-side DE: Michael Johnson & Dion Jordan - Primary responsibility is to rush the passer, but also has responsibilities to drop into coverage on occasion. I think with Jordan, you can get pretty creative with it. The rub is what kind of run defense are you going to get out of Dion Jordan? Olivier Vernon got his *** handed to him when they tried to play him tight to the ball. He's been OKAY at best, since moving outside. I think Dion Jordan could give you what Vernon does PLUS better pass-rush and special abilities to cover.

    Closed-side DE: Carlos Dunlap & Cameron Wake - Coyle's pressed Wake into playing tighter to the ball in most base alignments this year. While Dunlap is naturally bigger than Wake at 6'6" 290lbs, Wake is probably just as strong, if not stronger in my opinion. I think you can get away with him playing this in base sets as Coyle's already shown a propensity to player Misi or Wheeler on the line next to him at SAM. Lately, he's moved Koa Misi there more and more, and surprise, surprise, Miami's run defense had been improving up until last week's loss.

    Sub-Rusher: Wallace Gilberry's worked wonders in Mike Zimmer's scheme. He lines up as a DE and rushes on the edge, he lines up over guards and allows Harrison to blitz with Johnson and Dunlap coming off the edges. This is where Olivier Vernon could, and I believe should, fit in once they're comfortable with Dion Jordan as a starting DE.

    At SAM LB you have Koa Misi and James Harrison. Harrison is pretty miscast in Cincinnati's defense in base-packages as he's always been an open-side OLB. He's been okay against the run, and is a better blitzer than Misi. Harrison doesn't offer much in coverage. Misi's pretty much the opposite, but it fits.

    The problem areas I see are on the D-line, for obvious reasons with respect to Miami, and at MLB. On the D-line, Paul Soliai and & Domata Peko are pretty much the same player. The issue is at 3-technique. Geno Atkins, for my money, is the best in the NFL. Randy Starks has been really good this year, but he's probably gone this offseason. Jared Odrick is good...but he's not as good as Starks, let alone Atkins. On top of that, you're most likely going to have to re-sign Soliai or draft someone to play his spot as well.

    The other issue is at MLB. Dannell Ellerbe's stunk this year. Is that due to his injury? Is it due to him not being comfortable? Is he just a fish out of water in a 4-3? I don't know, so hopefully he improves next year. For Cincinnati, Vontaze Burfict has been a tackling machine all over the field. Miami needs a player like him or Luke Kuechly in the middle to make this scheme work...I have some pretty big reservations as to whether Ellerbe is that guy or not.

    Overall, I think I see what Kevin Coyle is trying to do by re-creating Mike Zimmer's defense in Miami. I think some of Miami's parts at key positions won't be as good: 3-technique and Mike LB in particular, but I think it makes sense. The main issue I have with this is it seems like with respect to Dion Jordan, they may be trying to force the fit at DE. I think he's a much more natural 3-4 OLB (i.e. a stand-up player, and he's said so himself in multiple pre-draft and post-draft interviews). But, maybe he does become like Jason Taylor and they get this scheme to work. I think that's the best-case scenario.

    To make it work, I think Jeff Ireland...or whoever Miami's General Manager is...is going to have to hit a MAJOR homerun on the defensive line. Whether that's bringing back Starks, drafting an Aaron Donald, or miracle-ing your way into trading for Ndamukong Suh, Miami's going to need someone better than Jared Odrick to handle that role, IMO. I still think you need another big-body next to Odrick as well, like Soliai, Colin Cole, Louis Nix, etc. My favorite would be Nix, of that group anyway.

    After that, at least for now, I think you have to hope Dannell Ellerbe gets a LOT better. But, the D-line would be my main concern for now.
     
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