Read this post over at elsewhere.....I have no idea as to the posters credibility, but, I will say he sounds very legit. Anyways...something to discuss as we watch paint dry for Ross to make up his ****ing mind on what hes going to do. "Hey folks, rough way to end the year -- but such is life in the NFL. My work is pretty much complete until the Senior Bowl so I thought I would drop in and provide a different perspective on Ryan Tannehill's development based on some troubling posts I've seen. I'll keep this one simple. Tannehill has certain fundamental issues that an experienced quarterback coach will need to clean up; namely hip movement/stability (for deep throw accuracy) and pocket awareness. However, I can tell you from interacting with NFL scouts on a day-to-day basis that he is almost universally viewed as a future perennial Pro Bowler. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion; but any views suggesting he is a bust, or does not warrant further development, would be viewed as buffoonery among those that evaluate football talent for a living. I understand frustration is high, given recent events, but please know that the quarterback position should be viewed as a major asset going forward. There is enough (warranted) criticism to be distributed elsewhere. " GM_Davenport http://www.finheaven.com/showthread.php?349886-A-Little-Tannehill-Perspective
I think this is probably true and it makes sense for a 2nd year QB. The NFL has been spoiled for a few years now with QB's coming out of college and being polished and ready to take the reigns from day 1. RT was not that guy initially. He is a very raw QB and has limited experience. In a perfect world he would have sat and learned behind someone for a year before taking over. There needs to be patience with him, a little more than some of the other new QB's in the league. RT is a different case than a lot of those guys.
Some background info on GM_Davenport: "Hey folks, it's been a while since I've had an opportunity to chat. I still linger quite frequently and appreciate a lot of the insight that you all provide -- it serves as a nice escape from the "work" part of the NFL and allows me to be just a fan. The past two seasons I've been working for the NFL Scouting Combine and the goal is to earn a full-time position in an NFL front office next season, but this business is all about the right opportunities. Many times in the NFL very capable scouts find themselves as subordinates to sub-par authorities, and as a result a "promotion" ultimately turns into a career regression. Anyhow, there are some things I have in mind that I'd like to talk about as it pertains to the Dolphins, but I thought instead I'd take some questions and we'll see where it goes from there. Keep in mind that my job is football, any insight with regards to employment status would be merely speculative on my part. Also, while I do watch the All-22 of all Dolphins' games, my area of focus right now is ACC defensive players -- specifically defensive backs and odd technique linebackers -- and so I apologize if I'm not as up to date with current NFL schematics." http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...otball&p=1064880457&highlight=#post1064880457
Its the first I have heard about Tannehill needing to work on hip movement/stability to improve on his deep ball. This actually makes me feel quite a bit better, as Tannehill seems very receptive to making adjustments, and works hard on them during the offseason. I do wonder who would be considered an "experienced" QB coach that would work well with Tannehill. Who was the QB that worked with Tom Brady? If I remember correctly...Brady had issues with his deep ball in the beginning and arm strength. His mechanics now...are just incredible. That throw he makes where he get the snap and fires the ball almost like a short-stop or second baseman to the flanker receiver is almost unstoppable.
Now I remember why I ran the hell away from that site. Not because of the OP, but because the followup comments are some of the worst drivel that exists on the internet.
I know....dude needs to come here for some serious discussion. I couldnt believe some of the replies.
I looked at this and found something even more interesting. According to a poster called thewalrus, Incognito's dad was posting on their board. Basically has been confirmed by media. Also the same poster is claiming that Incognito's dad was posting on here, way more then on their site. Anybody have an idea what Incognito's dad's user name was??
Incogs dad here was mommabilly. It was talked about for days and was dragged on. Old news at this point.
I trolled some of his posts. Me and him had a few exchanges. I just thought the dude was nuts, but knew SOMEONE.
thx, VT...but anyone blaming Tanny for our losses or lack of ball movement obviously doesn't follow football...it would be amazing how an actual OL would improve his production. That said, a better qb coach surely would benefit the kid..
Sounds legitimate in regards to the deep ball, very nice to absorb some professional insight on WHY Wallace was missed so often this year.
Nods..and also kinda explains why this wasnt like a quick fix during the season. It sounds like...its a mechanics issue..where they have to start at step one with it...and then repeat it over and over again. I have zero doubt it will be a distant memory next season, as I have 100 percent full confidence that Ryan will work on this, and go from missing those passes, to being lights out. I also think in the long run, his poor OL play this season, could end up making him a better QB in the long run. I cant remember what ex QB analyst I was listening to this past week, but thats exactly what he said. He said...hes had to adjust and make his reads much faster..because he hasnt had the time. So if you put a good line infront of him...its gonna SLOOOWWW waaaayyyyy down for him.
Is it bad form to send him a PM of this thread? Lol. No recruiting, just letting him know this more intelligent, cordial place exists ... :P
Lol...I already tried...kind of that. I just let him know I posted it here and would love his input. I didnt compare the two sites....that would be bad form.
When I was given an unceremonious "vacation" I tried really hard to move over to Finheaven, it's like eating Cameron Mitchell's than having to go eat at the Waffle House. Not to mention all those BS ads, and the homepage literally hurt my eyes.
Also opens up discussion about Mommabilly's (Ritchie Incognito's Dad) post's here on this forum. I went back and looked at his posts. Definitely has a lot of disdain and hate for Ireland/Philbin. Can understand it since his son was the topic of conversation and or the offensive line. Seems he knew what he was talking about and based on that gives us some inside information that we otherwise wouldn't have: 1. Long wanted to be here 2. Ireland dragged his a$$ and Jake felt they didn't want him or he wasn't important 3. Other linemen that should have been signed and were not or they dragged feet on 4. Irelands tactics are offensive to many. this is not how you build respectability. Who the **** want's to play for someone like that? 5. Philbin is in on more then most of you guys think. Thats just reviewing about 25 or so posts by the guy.......geez there are hundreds One could also argue that the disintegration of the line cost us the playoffs
So I asked GM about whether or not...he agreed with the thought, that the weak line infront of Tannehill this season...might actually expedite his development....here are his responses. Oh btw...hes gonna come over and visit at the phins.com.... "Hey there, I didn't want to continue a dead discussion in the thread I created but I thought your question warranted a response. There is a school of thought that says the harder things are on a QB early, the better he will be later. Most of the time, this is used with highly touted Freshman QBs in college -- they'll stick him with a makeshift offensive line and walk-on WRs in camp and give him the whole playbook at once. It humbles an often times arrogant 18 year old that dominated his opponent for 4 years in high school, and also makes him play faster than he'll need to in live action. Does this work in the NFL? Maybe. It would never be done by design but there may be some merit to saying Tannehill getting sacked 58 times will do him good in the long run. For one it made his pocket awareness improve exponentially from Week 1 to Week 17 -- even if it still has a long way to go. To be honest, more-so than poor offensive line play he should benefit greatly from the absurdly primitive route combinations in Sherman's version of the West Coast offense. Rarely is scheme criticism justified in the NFL, but this is one of those instances. Sherman learned the West Coast principles from Mike Holmgren, and comparing the 2013 Dolphins to the 1998 Packers, I don't see any evolution of the scheme -- at all. The problem is that defenses have evolved significantly, and the same route combinations do not consistently create opportunities for receivers anymore. When Tannehill is placed in an offense that does, by design, create separation, he should flourish. He also will have the experience of throwing into microscopic target areas which will be valuable later in his career. There is also an intangible mental component, though, to playing quarterback in the NFL. Any coach will tell you that a quarterback can only succeed if he knows he can succeed. Once confidence is damaged, it is very difficult to bring it back. Getting sacked that many times is one way to hurt a QB's confidence permanently. Once their eyes stop focusing downfield and start looking at defensive linemen, it is only a matter of time before they are out of the league. Thankfully, Tannehill seems to have a great mental resilience and if anything seems too focused down field at times. Another season of flirting with 60 sacks and that will likely not be the case, though. I hope that answers your question. Obviously there's no "proof" in any of this but that's my opinion on the situation. " "There are a lot of good, young offensive minds throughout college and the NFL that I think would do an admirable job. The number one trait I think any coach needs to have in order to succeed today is adaptability. I've always said, the best coaches are those that can change their entire offense in 1 week. Which is partly why I think the offensive coaches that are succeeding the most are those that install route terminology and blocking philosophies and create plays based on the players they have and the teams they're playing against. If the offense can't evolve, it's only a matter of time before defensive coaches will master it. " That part made me groan. Thats exactly the issue we had with Sherman.......
I love that comment. I agree that his pocket awareness still isn't great but compared to the beginning of the year he was so much better. I kinda hate the Sherman comment. That annoys me that people in the know think he hasn't evolved his playbook at all.
Lol..yeh he does. You can tell football is his profession. He will be a great source of information to the site...
I think alot of people feel that way....probably even Ryan Tannehill, which is why he was loosing confidence in Sherman as the OC.
It's basically how I feel, only with them big ole words I c'aint spell.. Really hope a guy with that insight makes his way over here, seems like a Harvard professor teaching at a community college over there.
Now, why did you have to go and insult community colleges??? I always thought that setting was more like a bunch of barely pubescent males at a strip club!
I'm just wondering when being an avg team with an avg QB is not going to be OK here is a little stats for you!!! Pennington comes in goes 11-5 in 2008 (draft Henne) Bench Pennington for Henne; Henne goes 7-6 ('09)(avg)and 6-8 ('10) Henne goes 0-4 gets hurt Matt Moore comes in and goes (6-6) as a backup bench Moore for a rookie RT and go 7-9 ('12) 8-8 ('13) see a pattern Seems to me we don't start or draft correct quarterbacks, i heard all this talk about just wait he will be good he needs time to grow about Henne and and now the same stuff about RT, RT shows some signs of intelligence but few far between. Everyone talks about his deep ball yes he cant throw them at all we know this, but how about the 20+ throws in the last two games that were under 20 yards not near anyone? I understand he is young but when is mediocrity not going to cut it and start winning now 3 playoffs appearances and only 1 playoff win over 14 years, if Matt Moore gave us the best chance in '12 he should have played so RT could learn and watch not just because he was the first rd draft pick, im tired of an avg .500 with no playoffs. So blame what you want, when teams do great QB get all the praise, when they do horrible we r supposed to sit here and say oh hes young, oh this oh that sorry im not buying it. Maybe a new OC and QB coach we can see if things are different, but im seeing the same BS QB that's going to be let go in a couple years.
Really?? You are making your case that Tanny is an avg to below ave QB by comparing teams from past years?? Do you even understand how flawed that is? Dude this is not the other fan site you gotta bring more then that.
He scored 7 points in 8 quarters for one, for two he went 8-8 and actually the defense won at least two of them games for him so by any means speak why hes not avg. 8-8 is .500 and by my math that's average? do you not agree. I dont care what site this is or is not, he hasn't done anything that past qb's haven't. Hes following the same path, but since he was a first rd pick and hes the qb right now everyone thinks differently about that instead of looking at the intangibles. The stats are right in front of you, everyone thought henne was going to be the answer he flopped, maybe if RT gets a better OC and Qb coach we will see his potential, but someone who gets sacks the most in the league and has no pocket presence, you can blame the OL as much as you want he was horrible against the jets and he didn't even get pressured if your getting sacked then learn to scramble which any qb and OC would see and do to not get sacked. Pressure is part of the game, So if your in the NFL and you cant throw long balls and you have no pocket presence then yes I would say hes avg or below avg. only above avg on RT is arm strength and running. accuracy = avg; awareness = below avg; reading defense = below avg (has got better); so in all yes i would say RT is avg to below, he has to show me a lot more that a piss poor 8-8 and 26 in the league in scoring. But please think hes a top tier guy!!!!
Not in the least bit. Reason there are 52 other players and a coaching staff that contributed to this season. There has been missed FGs that would have won games there have been blown coverage's and missed tackles that have resulted in losses, there has been poor play calling and poor execution by all phases of the team that has lead to losses. Just as there have been great passes, great receptions and great defensive plays that have resulted in the W. Now do you see how flawed it is to use such things as W/L and total points scored to judge 1 person on a team? Did he have a poor last 2 games? He sure did and so did the rest of the team. So your point is??
The qb always gets judged and you want to blame a defense that is on the field more than the offense since your offense is 28th in the league in TOP and you get takeaways and your offense settles for FG inside scoring side, are you kidding me? if you score touchdowns FG dont matter i hate people rely on kickers is it their job yes, another bone head move getting rid of carpenter for a rookie in my opinion. If its a last second fg to win it ok, but missed fg on drives that stopped is an offense blunder not on the kicker. If you score touchdowns you win games. I can count multiple times, the defense picked off the ball or got a fumble and i remember one drive where tannehill got sacked twice and made a 35 yrd fg into a 50 yrd fg. Just saying if you get a turnover as a defensive guy and your team goes three and out your going to be gassed.
LOL if it makes you feel better to put it all on the QB knock yourself out. It is a shame fans have to have such narrow views. Open your mind and try to see the whole picture and put aside your apparent bias.
Im not putting all of it on the qb but that is your man in charge, they get all the credit and blame, there are many people to blame but trying to say that RT is above avg is a joke did he get better from last yr to this yr in some areas id agree, but to say hes above avg is false. And to say im biased about what im saying is a joke, your biased thinking that he is a great qb and that other people are responsible for the team losing, he takes the snaps and sacks and he must not have thrown all the picks either we will blame the receivers for all of them then so we don't blame poor little RT. And to say i have narrow views is a joke, my football IQ is a lot higher than a post on a football forum for one and for two the fact that you say i have narrow views is a joke the difference between me and all you other supposedly "non-biased" writers is i don't hope or be biased with anyone, if you win a game you win it if you lose the game you lose it, and i put the blame right where its needed coaching staff and RT. The defense with an offense that can score would win you more games than lose for you.
You just sound closed minded. There is never a way to judge a QB by wins, losses or even stats a good portion of the time. All things exist in context to one another.
Of course, we've been saying that since last year.. To not use those mobility traits in the gameplan considering the variables like bad oline and poor run game, was just pure ego in terms of wanting him to be just a pocket Qb.
I never said he was not at fault. I even said the last 2 games everyone played poor. and I never said that I thought he was above ave either. I said what you were using to rationalize you view point was flawed, and it is. Come at us with some facts/stats, not just saying the team was 8-8 and lost the last 2 games BS. because all of that falls on the TEAM and coaching staff. Not just 1 guy, and I would make that same case if you were calling out a D-lineman or a CB or a WR. The W/L are more team oriented in football then any other sport.
