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Turner,Ireland and Sherman on the chop block

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He was promoted to QB coach last offseason. Ben Johnson is the asst QB coach.
     
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If I had to bet real money on it, I'd bet no one gets fired. :sad:
     
    jw3102 likes this.
  3. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Here's hoping you're a bad gambler :beer:
     
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  4. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    This is the likely outcome, and in some ways the best. If Ross thinks that Philbin is the guy, then he should stick by him. At least he can say he did his diligence and he can do a clean sweep. Of course, that leaves Ireland another year to open holes in the team, but at least everything will be square.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I missed that part
     
  6. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Yes
     
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  7. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Not enough. Everyone should be fired.

    Rebuild the front office from the ground up.
     
  8. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Thats probably going to far.

    Has the NFL investigation concluded? If not then perhaps thats what is delaying the decisions today.
     
  9. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Well I assume most didn't watch the Pats-Bills game, but this happened: The Patriots rushed for 267 yards against the Bills...one week after the Dolphins rushed for 14 yards against them.

    Legarrette Blount had 182 yards and 2 TDs. This is a thing that happened. Before heaping praise on how awesome the Bills front 7 is as one of the reasons the Dolphins failed in that game. Its a mess and its tough to defend this staff. How do the Rams win 7 games with Kellen Clemens, in the BEST division in football that saw a 10 win team miss the playoffs. How do the Jets, who lost numerous players and have Geno Smith at QB, finish in 2nd place ahead of the Dolphins? Really tough to watch nothing happen yet. I know its early, but the longer Ireland is still here the more nervous I get.
     
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  10. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Not for me. I want blood.

    It's December 2002, all over again. Should have cleaned house then, failed and plummeted into irrelevance.
     
  11. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Not sure why this is "disturbing?" Coaches are a fraternity. Philbin himself once worked for Sherman. They are probably friends. When you develop that - it can be very difficult let someone go.

    What I would do if I were Ross is fire Ireland. Then, fire the offensive coaches (through the team president). In the meantime I'd also have a short list of GM candidates and go after them right away. And talk to them about your confidence in Philbin but that you don't want to handcuff the GM.

    I'd also offer the GM some big bucks. This team has been dysfunctional basically since the firing of Shula and has a crap arena that hasn't drawn huge numbers fan wise. It's not an appealing franchise to go to, quite frankly. But, if he can land a quality GM for a 5 year deal - give him some padding with time and assurances so that if he is influenced by Ross to keep Philbin, he knows it won't kill him his first year; then Ross and he can talk about Philbin realistically with the other coaches out of the way. And, as they weigh out all the options, situation, etc. they should be able to come to a reasonable decision.

    I like the idea of keeping Philbin (at least stay in a WCO for Tannehill's sake) but if we get a really competent GM I think we have to trust him.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What has he done that is so poor?
     
  13. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    Not sure if it's on Sherman, Philbin, Taylor, Tannehill, or a combination of all, but...

    When your super athletic, former D1, Big 12 WR goes from being athletic and maneuvering in the pocket to becoming a statue comparable to Drew Bledsoe and Kerry Collins, but then after 9 games starts to maneuver again....somewhere along the way there was poor coaching there.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't blame Taylor for following Philbin/Sherman's orders.

    I do not agree with them not utilizing Tannehill's athleticism, however I don't see how that was Taylor's decision.
     
  15. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    Tannehill's maneuvering within the pocket was downright awful the first 8-10 games of the season. Not necessarily his athleticism in this respect. But the feeling of the pressure and where it's coming from in the pocket. It regressed from 2012, then steadily got better in the last 6-8 games.

    Granted the pocket collapsed far too often, but still. I cannot absolve the QB coach of blame.
     
  16. dolfan40

    dolfan40 Well-Known Member

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    According to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, "no one in Miami is safe," including coach Joe Philbin and GM Jeff Ireland.
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    His decision making, command of the offense, accuracy and a few other things have improved. Tannehill is a better quarterback this year than he was last year. Even Pat Devlin looks better.

    I do not think his maneuvering within the pocket was worse than last season.

    As a pocket quarterback Tannehill is much better than I expected him to be at this point. I do not see how the QB coach is to blame for the coaches above him making the decision to not use his athleticism.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is nice. Give me a report when something happens. (Was towards Ian Rapoport, who will not read this thread so I am wasting my time.)
     
  19. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Ireland, Sherman, Turner and Taylor all must go IMO, and frankly Philbin's fate should be in the hands of the new GM, especially if that helps us get the better GM candidate to sign with us.
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What has Taylor done to deserve a "Must go"?

    I can understand Ireland, Sherman and Turner, however why does Taylor get so much hate?
     
  21. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    This is where I strongly disagree.

    And I agree that Tannehill has improved in just about all other aspects of the position. But that should've been expected regardless of who was his position coach given his experience or lack thereof, tools, and intangibles. I think there could've been more improvement. The reason he was drafted where he was was due to his untapped potential
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Based on what?

    Could have been more improvement? Based on what? IMO if the Dolphins had a decent line that wasn't totally crap, Tannehill could have had a 4,400 yard season with around 30 touchdowns.

    His potential seems to be tapped and improved.


    Also his movement in the pocket was terrible last season. I don't know why you remember that it is worse. Blocking was a lot more terrible this season. Especially up the middle and blitz pick up.
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So did Johnny Ringo. We all know how that turned out. :yes:
     
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  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Guilt by association. He is part of the Sherman family coaching tree.
     
  25. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it be funny if the first thing Ireland did when he was told he was let go, was call his grandma....
     
  26. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    When you say it that way, its funny that we hired his college head coach who DIDNT tap that potential to be his OC and tap it here.
     
  27. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Taylor was in charge of Tannehill's development and while we saw some improvement this year, we certainly can't IMO say Tannehill made the strides we should have expected, like being able to connect with a wide open Wallace on long ball TD plays that he missed pretty consistently this year. Just what experience can anyone point to demonstrating how Taylor did a good job developing ANY other NFL QB?

    Tannehill simply showed NOTHING in the final game bs. the Jets that could have put us in the playoffs.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why is that a stride we should have expected? We should have expected Tannehill to do better at a play that has a 30% success rate?

    There isn't one QB coach in the league that can stop a quarterback from having one bad game. There isn't one quarterback in this league that hasn't had a bad game.

    While I do not care if Taylor is fired or not, I have yet to see a good point as to why he should be fired.
     
  29. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Quite the contary: I think Tannehill is right where one should have reasonably expected him to be, especially considering the horrendous OL and the lack of a running game. If Tannehill regularly connected with Mike Wallace on the deep ball, he'd be having an All Pro season with more than 30 TDs and way over 7 YPA. If that's where you expected Tannehill to be after his second season (and after only playing QB in college for two years), then there's something wrong with your expectations, not with Tannehill's development.
     
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  30. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Why is it everyone is ready to fire Taylor? Isn't he a QB coach? The guy that improved dramatically?
     
  31. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    I hate to be the one to point this out, but Ryan Tannehill finished the season with an 81.7 passer rating. Good for 21 out of 28 QBs that played at least 50% of their teams snaps. That's in the bottom 25th percentile of the league.

    Did he improve from last year? Sure.

    But give me a break if you're going to call it significant improvement. And spare me the nonsense where you're going to act like I'm being overly dramatic with wanting the QB coach and Offensive coordinator fired because of it.

    Based on what?! Based on the fact that he had a full NFL season under his belt and he now had a full offseason program under his belt. A full training camp taking 1st team snaps throughout. Based on the fact that he's going into his 2nd full NFL season under the same offensive system. Seeing the same defenses in Buffalo, NY, and NE that he's seen twice already. Based on the fact that he should be more adjusted to the game speed of the NFL. Based on the fact that he had better, more developed targets to throw to. Those same young guys with another year of development with the addition of Brandon Gibson for the first half of the season and Mike Wallace.

    That enough?

    Yeah, I know the OL sucked, and as a result the running game was worth ****. But I'll be damned if I'm going to credit Zac Taylor with the 6 points Tannehill added to his passer rating based on the above. It's a discredit and nothing else IMO.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    So you admit that you are being overly dramatic? I didn't even bring it up.

    Again, you showed little proof and very little reason to fire Zac Taylor. It is way more emotional than it is reasonable.
     
  33. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    I clearly gave a plethora of reasoning, which no matter how you slice it, is valid. And your response is basically "no you didn't give me proof."

    It's actually quite frustrating that I just listed out a variety of reasons why 6 points on Tannehill's passer rating should be a discredit to the QB coach rather than a credit, and you cast it off as not listing any proof.
     
  34. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    Again, this isn't emotion. This is clear thinking. Something I've believed all season and I'm on record saying as much

    I have no clear proof because I'm not on the field with Taylor and other QB coaches to compare him too. But I think Tannehill can be better, and should've been better for the reasons I've posted in my last few posts. And not just 6 points better.

    It could be Sherman that's holding him back, could be Philbin. No one knows. But Taylor is his position coach. He should be held accountable
     
  35. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I am losing patience waiting for the chopping.
     
  36. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Fixed :yes:
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You didn't give me plethora of reasons, you gave me many reasons that were not Taylor's fault. It is not Taylor's fault that Tannehill played with one of the worst lines in the NFL, he had no running game and was nearly most of the offense. Despite that his touchdown percentage grew and his interception percentage fell. It is not Zac's fault that he is not using his athletic ability. To be honest I do not agree that targets were that much better than last season. Wallace didn't fit this offense at all during the first half of the season, Clay stepped up, however there was zero from the other tight ends. Gibson helped then got hurt and the runningbacks got way worse out of the backfield.

    The idea that Tannehill could have been even better with another QB coach is speculation at best. You could easily have said, "Tannehill would be worse with a different QB coach."

    In a system that does not take advantage of all of Tannehill's strength AND forces him to develop as a pocket passing quarterback, which seems to me to be against his natural instincts, he still showed some significant improvement. I am also not going to blame Zac Taylor for the final two game because the entire team was crap from top to bottom. That is not Zac's job.

    You haven't lead a good argument why Zac is a "got to go." It is easy to say the linebacking coach, special teams coach, offensive line coach, and offensive coordinator have to go.

    I think there can be a great argument that Dan Campbell and Kacy Rodgers should keep their jobs.

    The rest of the coaches either did an O.K. to fine job. I believe if Zac had a different pedigree that people wouldn't even be bringing his name up. If they want to try to upgrade his position, then sure, I am fine with that. I am just as fine with keeping him.
     
  38. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Why exactly? Not disagreeing... but how do you evaluate the QB coach as a fan? Tanny has made some good progress?

    Or is it just a matter of wanting to clean house entirely on the offensive side of the ball?
     
  39. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Just to note.

    Mark Dominick has had 1 winning season in 5 years as the GM of the Buccaneers. He was fired today.

    Jeff Ireland has had 1 winning season in 6 years as the GM of the Dolphins. If Stephen Ross doesn't have the intestines to fire Jeff Ireland for his track record, then we have an ownership problem in Miami.
     
  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Quote from Mike Silver today:

     

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