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Dolphin Draft Class= F-

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phoenician Fan, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Its always easy to say it was bad after a year, but in truth you need to wait about 3 years before you can call it a bust.
     
  2. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Wait four years to judge a draft a class...when the average player's career is 3.5.
     
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  3. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Way too early to judge the draft. Jordan was injured and then stuck behind Wake and Vernon and rightfully so. Taylor was injured and missed a ton of time in the early going. Will Davis simply wasn't ready and neither was Jelani Jenkins. Don Jones looks like a contributor as does Gillislee once he sees the field. Dion Sims had trouble with blocking and conditioning in my opinion..two things that can be fixed. Dallas Thomas looks like the only dud so far and maybe for him its a matter of learning and getting stronger. The jury is out on this draft and im fine with that. I fully expect guys like Taylor, Jenkins, and Sims to have much bigger roles next season.
     
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  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Martin started every game as a rookie too. Vernon played 445 snaps as a rookie.
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4. Vern Carey, Fields, Soliai, Hartline.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Grading any draft class after one season with a grade other than an Incomplete, is really ridiculous.
     
  7. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Not just an F.... an F.. MINUS... :lol:
     
  8. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I like how people are defending Dion.... meanwhile I'm wondering if we traded up for a guy that will permanently have shoulder issues.
     
  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't think you could grade worse than an F either :lol: Leave it to Jeff.

    While it may not be fair to grade this draft class this early, it certain doesn't look promising at all even 2 or 3 years down the road. I mean, none of these guys could even sniff the field this season aside from Jordan and that was limited due to injury, and apparently the coaches saying he was struggling. The other guys, just didn't even have a chance for whateve reason. That doesn't give a very promising outlook at all at this point.
     
  10. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Rookies tend to play more on bad teams or those plagued by injuries. Many of the teams referenced (Jets, Rams, Jags, etc.) are obviously not playoff caliber teams. If anything, having rookies eat up less snaps is historically a sign of a good teams (e.g. Green Bay, Pittsburgh).

    That said, there is clearly some stubborn coaching in Miami. Dion Jordan is an epic example.
     
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  11. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's outrageous to grade the draft for it's contribution in its first year. It's not saying that they'll be bad in two or three years but, it is accurate to say that, on a per-snap basis, Miami received less help from it's rookies than any other team in the NFL.
     
  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    You can always follow another team bro.
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought I read an article somewhere showing Aldon Smith to be very one dimensional, he gets sacks and that's about it (vs JJ Watt or Von Miller)
     
  14. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Does Jonathan Cyprien count?
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    When your one dimensional, you have to be dominate in that one position. 14 sacks when you don't play every down is extremely dominate.
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You just gave Ross ammo to keep Ireland in perpetuity. He needs two more years, every year! Oi Vey!
     
  17. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    Judging a draft class based on one year is just stupid. I actually took the time to go to PFF and judge every draft pick each team made last year and most teams get very little production from rookies. Most of the rookies that start don't grade out very well. You have to wait to see how the players develop before you judge an entire draft class.

    Sturgis looks like he will be a good kicker for a while.
    Dion Jordan, while he didn't play much still showed enough to think he is gonna be a beast eventually.
    Jamar Taylor dealt with different injure the entire year. Lets wait until he gets healthy.
    Ill give you Dallas Thomas, he is pretty much universally considered awful.
    Dion Sims looks like he has potential for a TE that was drafted in the mid rounds.
    At the very least you got a backup linebacker in Jelani Jenkins.
    Just give the draft some time.

    I personally think IReland has actually done a pretty decent job drafting in the lat few years. Lots of starters from the mid-late rounds and he got us our QB for a decade as well as what looks like a beast in Dion Jordan.
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    You know what's stupid, saying people judging a draft off one year is stupid.

    I could judge a player off one ****ing game if I want too. That's not stupid. Making your final judgement or decision on a player after one game or one season isn't the best way to go about it. But making any sort of judgement at all after one season is completely plausible.
     
  19. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If those snaps don't go up this coming season then I will throw Ireland under the bus if he is still running the show. Special teams is where most of this rookie class spent time for the year, and those snaps were not counted. If Thomas, Davis, and Taylor fail, then Ireland failed miserably in a draft where he had numbers to work with. You notice I am not even counting Jordan, who he used two picks on. That pick should have played more. Top three picks need to play. He has essentially missed there.
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He shouldn't if you saw him play.
     
  21. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    If our measuring stick is the Jags then we are in serious trouble.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  22. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure, but isn't that the conclusion we're supposed to be coming to here?
     
  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not a big fan of trashing a teams draft after just one year but this draft class's lack of impact has been incredible. And for this class to not be able to play on a 8-8 team? Thats just horrible drafting and no excuses can be made for how little impact this draft class has had. We cannot give Ireland another draft, we just can't.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    What's stupid is people saying it's stupid for people to say it's stupid for anyone to judge a draft after one season.
    :shifty:
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's the D'pate we all know
     
  26. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am posting this again from responding to another posts. It includes winning percentage and draft info:
    Since the 2000 season the Dolphins are 108 wins and 118 losses, including the one playoff win in 2000, and the three playoff losses. To give perspective, Miami won 23 in 2000 and 2001. Since 2002, Miami is 85 and 106, including the one playoff loss. Miami has 6 winning season since 2000 and three playoff appearances. That is 6 winning seasons in the last 14 seasons, and 4 winning seasons and one playoff team in the last 12 seasons. If you go back to the last 10 seasons, the Dolphins have 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff team. That is completely unacceptable. That is 66 wins and 94 losses. A winning percentage over the last 10 years of 41 percent. The last 10 years have been a reflection of losing and frustration. Ireland has been a part of that.
    If you look at the team's drafting it gets worse: 4 season of the Wannstedht/Speilman era they left 5 players on other teams 1 starter, 4 backups & 2 starters on the Dolphins roster.
    2 seasons of the Saban era he left 5 players on other teams 1 starter, 4 backups & 3 starter on the Dolphins roster.
    1 season of Cam/Mueller era they left 3 players on other teams all backups, 1 starter & 1 backup on the Dolphins roster.
    Here is a review of Ireland/Parcells drafts not counting this year:
    Here is the scoring breakdown:


    ROUND SUCCESS FAILURE
    1st 1 -7
    2nd 2 -6
    3rd 3 -5
    4th 4 -4
    5th 5 -3
    6th 6 -2
    7th 7 -1

    If you throw in your analysis of this year it probably gets worse. He does better in the later part of the draft, but oh what a failing grade in the first three rounds. That has to get you into trouble. Look at the picks in his first three round this year, and consider Martin as a failure for last year. One success in 7 attempts in the 2nd round. And the first round is just crazy.

    You read the numbers for this organization and tell me things are good.
     
  27. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    If our draft class doesn't see the field next year, then by all means call it an F, I wouldn't blame anyone one bit. I don't think that will be the case though.
     
  28. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Obviously a draft class can't be fully judged for a few years. However, it is reasonable to ask, how did draft classes fair in year 1; year 2; year 3; etc.

    In that regard this is pretty bad.

    But what is most disturbing is that going into the draft it was clear that huge questions abounded along the OL. And, the OL was horrifically bad - the 58 sacks are top 10 among the worst of all-time!

    Yet, Dallas Thomas, amid not only a terrible O-line but also one in disarray, benching their RT for some period, then losing both their LG and LT, and he garnered two snaps.

    By any measure, given the status of the OL going into the draft and what transpired, that was a horrible pick. Even if Ireland thought he was a good developmental pick - it was a horrific miscalculation of the quality of the OL going into the draft.

    Doesn't matter how one slices it, the defenders of Ireland are right there with the flat earth society.
     
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  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Don't make obtuse arguments. If our rookies didn't play because of superior depth and starters ahead of them, like with playoff teams just above us in this list, then you'd have a point. But when your Oline is historically bad and your second round Olineman gets 2 snaps, you want to actually take a crap on the people willing to say that's a bad thing?

    Come on.
     
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  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Also, let's not pretend this is the very first year of Ireland's tenure and people are over-reacting to the first shred of evidence to come in the door before letting things develop.

    This is not the first nail in a coffin, and it may not be the last, but here's hoping it's one of the later ones.
     
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  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree that Ireland did a terrible job in the 2013 draft, but Ireland apologists will say that it isn't fair to judge this draft class after just one season. Even though their were several rookies from the 2013 draft who made big impacts on their teams this season. The reality is that Ireland has done a poor job in the draft overall since he has been the GM of the Dolphins.

    He has drafted two top tier players in Jake Long and Mike Pouncey in the past six years. For the most part, the players he has drafted over this time have been average to below average players in the NFL, or complete busts. In fact he has been more effective overall in selecting free agents than he has in selecting players in the draft. Of course he has also had several free agents who have been complete flops.

    Ireland should definitely be fired after six years on the job and only one playoff team in that time. Especially when that playoff appearance was in 2008. I just don't think Ross has the will to fire Ireland. I think Ireland, Philbin and others on the football side of the organization will convince a clueless owner that this team is more talented than it really is. They will tell him that they were only one game from making the playoffs and that if they are given one more year, they will be a playoff team in 2014. They will all tell him this because they don't want to lose their jobs.

    Ross, being the clueless owner that he is will buy the BS he hears from those individuals who only care about their jobs and not the future of this team. He will keep Ireland and Philbin and next year we will all look back and realize that we are one year behind on our rebuilding process because Ross was so inept as an owner that he refused to make the changes this team needed after the 2013 season. So it will be after the 2014 that Ross will finally make the changes he should make right now.

    While I have no faith in Ireland or Philbin and their abilities to correct what is wrong with this team. I have even less faith in Ross as an NFL owner and someone who can go out and hire the right people to turn this team around. I said it in an earlier post and I'll repeat it here. This team will continue to remain nothing but mediocre until it gets a new owner. Ross is the major problem with this organization and unfortunately no one can fire him.
     
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  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    What, exactly, is your definition of success? Long and Pouncey both made the Pro Bowl as Dolphins. Tannehill is the best QB we've had in years, and up until the final two games of the season, was having a top-10 statistical season in the league. I'm not defending Ireland or disagreeing with your larger premise, but that seems off.
     
  33. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    We are saving Jordan for SB XLIX, get a clue guys.....
     
  34. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Can't possibly say this past draft class was a fail until it actually fails. Right now i've seen Jamar Taylor get burned by Jimmy Graham, and i've watched Will Davis get picked on against New England in a game we won. Dion Sims has missed a few blocks but other than that the rookie class has looked good from what i've seen (which isn't a lot).
     
  35. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's exactly the case with Dion Jordan and the cornerbacks.

    That's funny, because I remember this exact same argument being made about Vernon Carey his rookie season.

    It's pretty much the exact same ****. Awful line, Carey didn't play really except until injury got him on to the field outside of special teams. The same gnashing of teeth over him being shuffled between Guard and Tackle, and Rex Hadnot starting over him.

    You come on
     
  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I am not an Ireland apologist. I hope he is fired, but no logical person should be grading the 2013 draft yet. If after the 2014 season we don't see some progress then there is cause for real concern. Disagree with me all you like, but we could have 4-5 starters from that draft when it's all said and done. I am not ready to call any of the picks a bust yet, even Dallas Thomas.
     
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  37. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    What do you think about Thomas? I've been watching clips of him, comparing him to Antonio Richardson and Ja'wuan James, who are both beasts. Not sure which one is bigger, but I think that Richardson is more physically impressive. I'm having a hard time getting a really good feel on either one, but I would say that I am intrigued by Richardson, not sure if at LT or RT.

    Anyway, Thomas has pretty good feet, some power- what is the deal with this guy? Huge whiff if he flops, but like you I'm not ready to write him off. I just can't figure out what's going on with him, cannot put my finger on it.
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thomas was my least favorite among our picks, but he was coming off shoulder surgery, so we need to see what he can do after an off season of a good strength program. He looks like an influence, wall off blocker with decent balance. He has good enough feet for guard, but not sure he can ever be a pass blocking tackle you can count on.
     
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  39. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I thinks that's a fair assessment, a wall off blocker with pretty good feet. Every once in a while I'll see him get some good lean on a DL, but I don't view him as very physical. My concern is that his best fit imo is at LT, and if he doesn't make it there he ain't gonna make it, just not physical enough for OG or RT.

    Richardson and James- big players, Richardson is particularly beastly, but i'm not sure to what extent that translates into production. Watching Thomas, Richardson and James is frustrating to me- almost like, ok, they look like they're doing a lot of the right things out there, but is their heart into it? I can't say that I'm right on that, but I've watched all three and it's been less than satisfying, like eating a big Chinese takeout meal and being hungry a couple of hours later, if that metaphor makes sense.

    In hindsite, imo, the Thomas pick was a mistake, and a big one. And at the time it seemed like a mistake as well, actually. David Bakthiari, a good DE, maybe a WR, we passed on a lot of good players to get him. And his game seems a little impotent to me, just not happening. Ju'wuan Ja,es looks like maybe a guy you take a flyer on on the 5th round or so, maybe later. Antonio Richardson- man, he has the size, frame and skills I think, but I want to see more nastiness, more effort out of him- out of all three actually. I think that Richardson has more upside that Morgan Moses, but I'd take Moses first. If we're talking straight up LTs, of who is likely to be there, if he declares, I like the RT from Texas A&M, Ogbuehi. That's LT feet that he has, behind only Matthews and Robinson imo. He's LT all the way to me, only at RT because he's playing with Matthews.

    This OT class is confusing to me- two rock solid prospects in Matthews and Robinson, followed by a lot of question marks like Lewan, Erving and Moses. If Ogbuehi declares, that's my guy, I think. Have to see more but I'm very, very impressed with his feet and athleticism.

    Note to Ireland, Ross and the front office- if you draft Dallas Thomas over David Bakhtiari, you get what you deserve. Hire a GM, scout, outside counsel, consultant, whatever, to help with drafting OL this year. Too big a year to screw it up yet again, Ireland style.
     
  40. #1 fan

    #1 fan Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Ireland gave up a second round pick to move up to draft Jordan . . .


    The 2011 draft (three seasons removed) for what it's worth: Mike Pouncey, Donald Thomas, Edmond Gates, Charles Clay, Frank Kearse, and Jimmy Williams.
     

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