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The Offensive line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    So we all know the key to sucess next year appears to be the offensive line and rebuilding it.

    So hypothetically this is being forwarded to Jeff Ireland.

    What advice would you give him in rebuilding the offensive line.

    Who would you like him to draft, resign, trade for, etc
     
  2. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    In perfect honesty, if he stays, I want to see him hire an O line sharpshooter for input...he obviously can't do it alone.
     
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  3. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    My advice to Jeff Ireland? Think about what he would do, and then do the complete opposite.
     
  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stop sticking with questionable scheme fits because they do some stuff well(Incognito, Jerry, Garner).

    Invest in a non-linemen blocking specialist

    Hope the coaches pull their heads out of their asses.
     
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  5. Oghma

    Oghma Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not really up on the draft, so can't really comment there except to say that given the omnishambles which is our Offensive Line, we're obviously going to need a mix of free agent acquisitions and draft picks.

    LT - Go to the draft here? Monroe probably resigns in Baltimore and Branden Albert is likely looking for megabucks coming off a Pro Bowl. I'd probably let McKinnie walk as I think his salary demands will be too high for the risk that comes with him - i.e. the risk that he mails it in when the season starts.

    LG - I was going to suggest Matt Slauson here, but I just learned that he re-signed with Chicago. I think we try and cobble something together from our current roster here and it ends up being a weakness all year. If we can sort the other positions though, 1 bad slot out of 5 would be a marked uptick in performance.

    C - We're set here with Pouncey.

    RG - Jon Asamoah would be worth a look in FA. KC benched him midway through the season so I guess they're unlikely to bring him back

    RT - Having just spent some time looking at FA tackles I'm beginning to realise how difficult a task we're faced with. Bring back Clabo?

    The idea of bookend rookies on the OL terrifies me, so I think we need to grab a starting caliber tackle in FA somehow.

    EDIT: Maybe look at Zach Strief at RT?
     
  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Bribe a good gm to give himself ideas
     
  7. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    I like how you mention Ireland, so half the readers can't help but turn their brains off and commence trolling. My advice is mainly to draft a tackle that isn't a big soft sackless baby like the last two. Resign McKinney and sign a legit LG or muarkice pouncey.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Rebuild the unit, top to bottom, basically it is hard to run a ZBS with hat on hat maulers.

    More athleticism at the Tackles, find where Dallas Thomas is hiding out.

    I think Garner is a perfect swiss army offensive lineman I'd 100% keep him and Pouncey, everyone else should be looking for real estate agents.

    FWIW, I'd keep McKinnie if the price was right.
     
  9. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    LT - Jared Veldheer Coming off an injury plagued year but should rebound nicely next year.
    LG - Free Agency. Too early to say who, but rather go FA route for the left side.
    RG - Garner/Brenner/Thomas and add a mid to late round pick to that group. Fight it out.
    RT- Draft. La'el Collins, OT, LSU. We have been missing a road grader at RT for so long and it stunts are run game. Early projections have him going in our area to.
     
  10. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    We're banking on Ireland rebuilding the entire OL....in one offseason....what could go wrong?
     
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  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here's what you do. Ask Ireland for his opinion on two players. Whoever he says he likes, pick the other guy.
     
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  12. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    good post and exactly what I was looking for. This is no easy task and is going to involve multiple seasons. Maybe even 3 or more. Especially if we are going to build any type of depth.

    Not saying it can not be done. I just believe there will be stop gap approaches because this is our Achilles heel. Which also highlights the importance of who our next OC is. It must be someone with experience molding the offense to fit the talent.
     
  13. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    The draft this year is very deep in G's and OT's.

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OT.php

    and

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OG.php

    If we play our cards right we should have a field day.
     
  14. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    Notice a difference in these Offensive Line coaches??

    Our O-Line Coach

    “Turner joins the Dolphins after having spent the previous four seasons (2008-11) in the same position at Texas A&M under then-head coach and current Dolphins offensive coordinator Mike Sherman.”
    http://www.miamidolphins.com/team/coaches/Jim-Turner/ebda6e7b-4ec8-4e6c-935a-d842876df030


    Patriots O-Line Coach

    “Dante Scarnecchia is a 44-year coaching veteran who is enjoying his 32nd season as an NFL assistant. He owns the longest coaching tenure in Patriots history, now entering his 30th season on the Patriots sidelines and is the longest current tenured NFL coach.”
    http://www.patriots.com/team/coaches/dante-scarnecchia/21cb4932-a7ba-4544-88ab-ed489d46a88b


    We need to stop this hiring “buddy system.” Don Shula just hired the best people for the job, he didn’t hire all of his buddies. These people need to get their NFL “on the job training” somewhere else. We need to bring in super bowl quality personnel if we want to go to a Super Bowl.
     
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  15. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Ummm..last time I looked he was our GM

    Should this be forwarded to someone else? Maybe I should go back and put in a fictitious name since it was hypothetical, maybe Ben Mcadoo?
     
  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    It's my point.

    Is there anybody that could do it?

    I don't think there is. Not in one year.
     
  17. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Dear lord...if you aren't watching this Auburn LT run block, you're missing out. What a force.
     
  18. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Advice to Ireland............

    Resign please
     
  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Bears FO did it, so it can be done, and needs to be done. Sadly, we have Ireland picking them, and Turner coaching them - lose, lose.
     
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  20. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    What's your thoughts on Mckinnie? He's going to want some coin. Is he worth it? Then we got Taylor Lewan (Michigan), Cedric Ogbuehi (Texas A&M), Cameron Erving (Florida) and Greg Robinson (Auburn) available in the draft. Any one of these would do and be a nice upgrade. ? is could we move Mckinnie to LG. With Pouncey in the middle, half the problem solved. We could bring Clabo back - (only because I don't know what else to do) for back up

    I also love Ryan Shazier (Ohio) LB. fast OLB
     
  21. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    I remember when we had Hudson Houck as Oline Coach. We just need to get a hardnosed Oline Coach in here. And draft better lineman, but honestly Ireland's track record is sooo bad with drafting oline I'm not even sure they should allow him to this draft. Even though we probably should use all our picks on the line! He's 0 for what now?
     
  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    would you use all our picks on linemen?

    I would be willing to use all but one. The other I would use on a promising LB maybe round 2.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    uggg, I always hate when references are made to walterfootball.com. No offense.



    LT- Albert [has become a very good pass protecting tackle, ranked 6th in pass pro last year]
    LG- Jamon Meredith [from Tampa. Filled in nicely for Carl Nicks and should be a serviceable starter on the cheap]
    C- Pouncey
    RG- Chad Rinehart [did you see the push San Diego's interior line got on Cincy's stout run D in the playoffs!! plus he's familiar with ZBS stuff]
    RT- La'el Collins [my favorite right tackle prospect w/o having to use a 1st rounder. Nasty road grader in the ground game and surprisingly athletic and coordinated for his size in pass protection]

    that frees up our 1st rounder for an offensive weapon like Mike Evans, Eric Ebron, or Jace Amaro...... or a trade back for perhaps Brandin Cooks to make up for missing out on Tavon Austin last year.
     
  24. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    But it is NOT his responsibility to develop the talent. That is the coaches. Maybe it's time for a new offensive line coach, or some additional help. Yea Houck was a beast, man I'd give anything to have that guy in here.

    Do you remember who we in essence traded him for?
     
  25. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You can't develop talent in a player that lacks the requisite talent to play well. It is funny. Jim Turner didn't have any problem developing Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews at Texas A&M.
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yes. I would like that.
     
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  27. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    I know what you mean, but our resources on the outside are so limited. I wish we had access to what the pros have.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Nothing. It's a slam dunk. Jeff has a keen eye for OL types. Witness, John Jerry, Jon Martin, Dallas Thomas...
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Bears added 4 new starters in 2013 and it worked ok for them. Two free agents on the left side, two rookies on the right side.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That ain't gonna happen. It's just throwing feces at the wall to even suggest it.
     
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  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He is 1 for 4 counting Pouncey. If you think Jerry is a serviceable 5th best OL, then I guess one could say he is 1.5 for 4. Dallas Thomas could develop into a starter worthy of his draft status, but I won't hold my breath on that happening.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Houck was here through the '07 season as I recall. Parcells didn't retain him but instead hired veteran OL coach Mike Maser. After one season, he was replaced with a buddy of Sparano, Dave DeGuglielmo. Houck is 71 now and retired. Maser hasn't worked in the league since Miami. DeGugs didn't coach in the league last season.
     
  33. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I'm trying to not blow our collective draft load on OL. Hence why I would look to FA to fill out our left side starters. Then work the draft to snag our RT (Really like Collins for RT) and maybe mix a 4th/5th round guy in there to compete at RG/depth.

    I'd be estactic if we could land Mosley (and kick one of our overpaid LB's to the curb) and then come back with Collins in the 2nd.
     
  34. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Great topic bro.

    I wish I had some answers, the end of the season is still too fresh in my head to staaart in on this but I'd love to hear what some others have in mind. Hopefully the trolls don't ruin your thread...:up:
     
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  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There aren't many coaches like Scarnecchia. So good luck on us finding one. It won't ever happen but one veteran OL coach who was very well regarded in the NFL for years, and most recently coaching in college at Pitt, is Tony Wise. He was our OL coach from 2001 through 2004, when we got pretty good production out of an average group of talent for the most part. Mark Dixon, Jamie Nails, Tim Ruddy, Todd Perry and Todd Wade, mostly, blocking for Ricky. Tony is a long time friend of Jimmy Johnson, and Dave Wannstedt, so that may not sit well with some folks. Last year, Howie Long hired him to coach up his son Kyle in preparation for the Senior Bowl. Kyle played well in that game, and ended up being a surprising 1st round pick who had a good rookie season as the Bears right guard. I guess Tony is semi-retired now since he hasn't coached at Pitt since Wanny left, as far as I know. Tony Wise is 62 yrs old now, so is actually younger than Scarnecchia.
     
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  36. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    yea, I would feel sorry for Jeffy if he wasn't the one who put us in this position in the first place.
     
  37. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Thanks. Saved me from trying to look that up. When Parcells Fired Houck and others he brought in Sparano who was Dallas' offensive line coach. Jerry Jones promptly rehired Houck. Ever since we have had a revolving door at Ol coach. Since, We went from being ranked 4th in the league to 27th.

    What is even more discouraging is Joe Philbin is a career Offensive Line Coach....wonder what happened there.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The fact that Jim Turner just "happened" to be Mike Sherman's first cousin was a fact that was overlooked initially, but it should have clued us into what kind of hire that really was...similar to the Zac Taylor hire. It's all about family and friends for these guys. The fact that the two guys from Texas A&M that agreed to go with Sherman to Miami were relatives says a lot too.

    I honestly don't know who to hire as an offensive line coach. I have no input there, for now.

    My advice to Jeff Ireland would be to fire himself. He can call me an a-shole for it. It's OK. I can take it. I won't even call up talk radio to tell everyone about it.

    Otherwise I think there's been a pretty established disagreement between the personnel being put on the offensive line and the style that they've chosen to play. If you're going to play a certain style you've got to really go in for that style from a personnel standpoint. If your personnel doesn't fit that style, you abandon it. I don't think you have to be an OL coach to at least sense there's been a conflict between what they've been running and how they've been stocking the fridge.

    One specific piece of advice I would have is to play some situational, package-based football. Move your personnel around more, at need. Use some unbalanced looks. Even go so far as to swap out players in certain unique situations.

    For example, I have suggested this before and I still haven't seen the downside to the idea...why doesn't Miami have a sub package for short yardage that even goes so far as to change some of the OL personnel? Is it just stubbornness? Is it just something "you don't do"?

    Mike Pouncey has NEVER been good in short yardage power situations. It's his Achilles heel. It has been since his rookie year. He allows the defense to create negative space. The fact that he has to snap the football before he fires off the ball negates the value of his quick twitch ability and mobility. It does that for every Center, but not every Center depends on that ability in order to be an above-average player. Not every Center is as light in the pants as Pouncey, either.

    So why the hell don't you sub in some big animal to play Center in short yardage packages? Don't tell me short yardage and goal line isn't important. Don't tell me that when our weakness in short yardage played such a big part in some of our losses this season.

    Fact of the matter is I'm pretty sure a guy like Nate Garner would be just as effective on those plays if not more so, whereas Mike Pouncey's quick twitch explosion and general mobility would be invaluable to the team in such short yardage situations either as a GUARD or even as a FULLBACK (if you're feeling frisky).

    I sure do remember the Florida Gators being unstoppable in short yardage back when Ma. Pouncey (who is less mobile but stronger) was the Center, and Mi. Pouncey was the right guard, and Tim Tebow was running that single-wing stuff...winning the BCS Championship in 2008.

    I know, I know. Everyone's going to say that you can't screw with the Center-Quarterback exchange. Balls to that. The easiest answer to that problem is simply to PRACTICE it. Put one of your offensive assistants or quality control guys in charge of the short yardage offense. Make it his to coach, complete with players playing certain roles. Give them a little pride in it. Let him design the plays, obviously under the supervision of more weathered coaches. Then PRACTICE the damn unit. Then you're not worrying about the whole snap exchange thing.

    But alas this is not the kind of outside the box thinking that I've come to expect of the Dolphins with the glorious exception of the Wildcat (Gus Malzahn's) in 2008.
     
  39. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Was wondering what took soo long for someone else to notice this. Does he even pull?
     
  40. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    WADR -- I wasn't looking for anyone to feel sorry for Jeff Ireland, and that's MR IRELAND to you ...jk

    I really think, and most seem to agree if we fix the line we can win enough games next year to make the playoffs with what we got. Not sure if Tanne regresses or not with a new OC, maybe he thrives.

    I just want to know what those moves should be. Obviously our Offensive line coaches did a ****ty job, but I have not seen one post or article calling them out for it.
     

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