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Mr. Ross' Failed Leadership

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I doubt Manning plays two more years honestly. But I wouldn't trade a long term plan aimed at multiple super bowls for the potential to win just one.

    The only way I'd have wanted Manning was if we drafted a QB early as well, but the odds of that were slim.
     
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  2. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    6-10, and Denver was 9-7 IIRC, in one of the worst divisions ever. It's now moot. But a lot of this goes back to the original post. WHY people don't have faith in Ross or trust him. 2 opportunities to INSTANTLY make us a contender, and he didn't get it done. And mired in mediocrity since.

    For all the arguing on this board, no one can argue...I think, that if we either had Harbaugh at coach, or Manning at QB...that we would be playing this Sunday in all likelihood. It stings a bit.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So the provable facts that Denver had a better team and more money were completely irrelevant and the made up facts that Manning personally hated Ireland and thought Ross was an idiot is what you're sticking with?

    Do people like ever actually bother with evidence? What's it like to live in a world where facts are irrelevant and everything is about what you decide it to be?
     
  4. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    ***sigh***Who said he "hated" Ireland? The Broncos were comparable to us at that time, personnel and prospect wise, as I made evident 2 posts prior. We COULD have had a clean slate with coaching and GM vacancies. EVEN A BETTER SITUATION THAN DENVER. He could have literally picked who to work with. And you do that for a Peyton Manning. You have clues as to why he chose Denver, and I have clues as to why he didn't choose Miami.

    All I can say is...Francis...you were DEAD WRONG about Ireland...and you're DEAD WRONG about this. If you can't smell the sh!t right on your face pal, I don't know what to tell you.
     
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  5. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Look at it this way. With Brandon, Reggie, a fair quarterback and a good defense, all we could manage was 6-10. Manning mentally plugs himself in at quarterback and figures he can account for, say, three or four more wins. That gets him to 9-7, 10-6. Denver, in the meantime, is already 9-7, with a QB who does not belong within sniffing distance of an NFL stadium except as a spectator. Manning plugs himself in and the same extra 3-4 wins get him to 12-4 or 13-3, meaning sure playoffs and a shot at the Super Bowl. And he doesn't have to deal with our coaching staff ot the new coaching staff du jour. where do you go if you're Manning, even independently of having to work with Ireland?
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So you just keep rewriting history.

    Manning never intended to come here. That's because we didn't have the money or the team Denver had. We weren't close to Denver. They won a playoff game with Tebow and we went 0-7. Since Manning never wanted to come here because of those two things, telling him we'd give him whatever he wanted was irrelevant. Do you remember what Tennessee offered? Probably not, because you clearly don't pay attention. They offered him literally EVERYTHING. All the money they had and LIFETIME OWNERSHIP in the team. You cannot offer more than that, and HE STILL TURNED IT DOWN. Lemme guess that was because of Ireland and Ross to, wasn't it? :pity:

    I wasn't wrong about Ireland. For the billionth time Snooki, I simply wanted evidence that he was bad and not data compromised by Parcells. I said numerous times back then if we miss the playoffs this year, then he should be fired. Shocking, that to this day, you still miss these facts too.
     
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  7. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. We finished the season 6-3. Everybody knew that 0-7 start had to do with Sparano and his burned bridges between Ross, Ireland and himself, and his lame-duck status. And look at Indy, they were 2-14, one of the worst teams EVER without Manning, and division winners and in play-offs the immediate years prior. So I think he can add more than 3 or 4 wins to a team...his presence is that strong.
     
  8. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    ***double sigh*** Adams...the Jeff Ireland of owners....colossal ******* and incompetent...offered Manning an unapproved by the league, "contract for life" which meant a front office job after his playing days. NOTHING about OWNERSHIP was offered. I'm sure Manning thought, "yeah, let me work for this drunken sh!thead for the next 20 years, sounds great!!!" Who doesn't pay attention Francis? More typical fabricated history and downright WRONG out of you.

    In 2011, we had the 20th ranked offense. Denver was 25th.
    We had the 6th ranked defense on the NFL...Denver was 24th.
    And we had a cleaner potential slate.

    Who was more promising?

    Because Denver faced a much easier schedule, in the easiest division in the NFL, and beat a flat Steeler team at home..they are WAY better than us? Yes we went 0-7, but finished strong at 6-3. You want things that don't exist. You want evidence when the rest of the world has to rely on instinct. It's why you'e always behind. Your evidence does not exist..and when it does, you can't process it. And we were not in cap hell, where money would be an issue. Who has had more money than us the last 2 years?(Thanks Aponte!!!)
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/peyton-manning-turned-down-more-money-tennessee-titans-205200221--nfl.html
    So why did he choose Denver then? No Ross & Ireland? Is Ross an idiot for being in a tougher division? Again, Denver didn't need to be convinced to meet with Tennessee. He di for Miami because we had a worse record, a new coach, less talent and less money and were in a tougher division.

    Not everything is Ross and Ireland's fault you know. For example, they didn't invent cancer.
     
  10. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I'm torn between thinking at times he's either clueless or just purposely killing the fanbase in South Florida so he has a legit reason to move the team.

    I'm serious....

    No one could be making the moves he does without an agenda unless they are just one of the stupidest and most clueless morons ever.
     
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  11. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I would say we are time limited. The Senior Bowl is this coming week, the Combine in just a month. Don't you think its important that the new GM be in place before these important weeks happen ? By Ross dillydallying around and not being assertive and making a decision we are going to once again be behind the rest of the teams in the league this year in our search for the massive rebuild that needs to be done.
     
  12. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I agree....this has been the most baffling part of what is going on and shows that there was a huge internal conflict. I mean it doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Who is getting blamed for the offense's lack of progression this year ? There's conflicting messages being sent. Is it the coaching ? Well then you get rid of Sherman and his assistants. But they got rid of Ireland, so then it wasn't the coaching so it must have been the talent level, right ? But Sherman is gone but his assistants that directly coach the players are still here. So which is it ?
     
  13. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    "Maybe even"...from yahoo sports...is your "fact". You gone full Francis. He wasn't even offered as much ownership as Fergie. He was offered a front office JOB upon retiring, which may have not even been permitted by the league. That's the fact.

    As you said, Manning is not dumb. He saw a team who played in a bad division who had the 25th ranked offense and 24th ranked defense. And he chose them over a team with 1 good team in its division but a tougher schedule, who had the 20th ranked offense, and 6th ranked defense. Is there a massive conclusion to draw personnel wise? I think we had more potential to be honest.

    He chose Denver because Ross did not make Miami appealing enough....plain and simple. Firing Irish, and partially catering a staff/front office to this instant game changer, could have made it more appealing. No, cancer, world hunger, you're little weenis...are not Ross and Ireland's fault. Not amputating glaring problems in a timely fashion, not getting the right people signed...that is Ross' fault. That's why this thread exists, and we finished yet another mediocre season.

    The difference between you and me is that you are a blind optimist. And that is your right, and its a great way to be. But its not for message boards, and rationally discussing a football team that has not been good for a very long time. Stay the way you are, its healthier. I'm a realist and get mad and call out the problems with this team. But I'm not negative either. I lend myself to hope, like now with these new hires. And if it doesn't pan out, if Philbin leads more uninspired ball...I call for his head. I scratch where it itches. The good and the bad. It's not all good Francis. I don't just hope and hope and hope and think things are always fine. You can't come with that argument when we never make the playoffs. Feel that way, if its good enough for you.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Even if he did all that, he would have chosen Denver. They had the cap space to pay him what he wanted.

    I have yet to meet a person who claims they are a realist, who is actually a realist.
     
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  15. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    We've had more cap space than anyone the last 2 years. We could have guaranteed a huge payday...even if it came day one of season 2. And i'm sure we could have made a strong offer year 1 as well.
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The last two years, after cleaning it up that year.

    Peyton wanted a lot of up front money. Miami was tight on space and had to purge to be able to sign Manning.

    Denver, on the other hand, didn't. They had a lot of cap space without having to move the roster around. It was obvious from the beginning that he would chose Denver over Miami and there was nothing Ross could have done differently to change that.

    That is being a realist.

    The only way Ross was a bad leader, was trying when he had such a little chance to get it accomplished.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That is not my only piece of evidence. That was written about more than just there. It is however, more than you produced.

    Again, Manning had not made any demands of Miami, and since he didn't, there is no way Ross failed to entice Manning there. Manning never told anyone he couldn't or wouldn't work with Ireland, Philbin, Sherman, etc. We weren't on his list because we were a worse team for him and we didn't have the money he wanted. You can sit there and bumble **** all over the place how our 3rd down offense was miles better than Denver or our 4 th quarter defense produced ione more fumble over a 30 year period then Denver, when in the end he was going to a team that won a playoff game with Tim ****ing Tebow instead of a team that went 0-7. You act like Manning would have preferred to throw to Hartline & Bess over Thomas & Decker.

    You are now, as you were then, guided by your insane and irrational Ireland hatred. Everything bad that happens to the team is his fault and because of that, Rioss' too. The team bus could get a flat and you'd blame it on Ireland. Ireland deserved to be fired. He deserved to be fired for his inadequacies with oline, his poor public relations track record & his ignoring Philbin's requests to rid the team of Martin & Incognito BEFORE the scandal blew up and the line cost us games. But you act as if he is Hitler who ruined the franchise for decades. Its dumb, irrational and obviously blissfully unaware of the facts.
     
  18. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    We had almost 15-20 mil in cap space. Players would have restructured for him too. I know Marshall would have. With Guarantees, it could have gotten done. He got 18 mil from Denver year 1.
     
  19. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    So your non-facts outweigh my stats? Roger that. And it could have been Marshall and Hartline and Bess, vs. Thomas and Decker, who would have not been Decker without PM. Yeah, that's a massive disparity.

    And then more Francis speak. You hate Ireland...blah blah blah. If a bus crashes...Ireland... If its 2pm in London, and 7am in Tokyo, how much do you hate Ireland? Waaaahhh, bwaaaah blaaaah. Half your posts are regurgitated nonsense. And that's why you can't argue football. Again, my stats and assumptions, are less than your shoddy web-reporting/blogging hearsay and homerism? Thanks but no thanks.

    He had it in his head he was not going to Miami for a reason, but it could have been different. I blame Ireland for a poor roster and scaring extremely talented coaches and players away. Nothing more. I wish him well, far far away from my team. Carry on though, it amuses me.

    Who is worse, Ireland or Momar Gadaffi ???
     
  20. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Getting back to the original post, I kind of agree with this assessment. And it's disappointing.

    It's my opinion - not fact, but my opinion - just based on some of the things seen around our GM search that there is a perception most of the rest of the NFL has about Miami's organizational structure that Ross has set up, and for the most part, that perception is not a good one. Whatever the truth is about the Ireland v. Aponte/Philbin fiasco, the chatter of that type of politicking in the Dolphins' organization is out there. Then, again in my opinion, the rest of the NFL probably looks at the Stephen Ross as an amateur-type owner. Yet, he has the final say regarding disputes, because in the organizational structure, all three heads report to him. I just ask myself, if I was a GM candidate (even knowing there are only 32 of these jobs in the world), would I want to walk into a situation where there is a chance of being undermined by my professional peers, and if there's a problem, I have to take it to Ross, who isn't all that football-wise and already seems pretty entrenched with his head coach... at least for this year? Then, say I take the job and am a football talent-savant, I have no control whether the coaches develop or play the players I choose. That's probably pretty typical, but still, take a player like Dion Jordan. Whether he was overdrafted at #3 overall or not, there wasn't any draft analyst that had him outside of the Top 10 or 15 of the NFL Draft last year. Miami's coaches -- for whatever reason (injury, [arguably] questionable practice habits, etc.) -- wouldn't put him on the field. He couldn't get on the field for Miami, a team that pretty well stunk at the LB position. Huh? And if I want to go to my boss to press playing a guy I drafted # 3 overall, do I have confidence that my boss will make the right football decision for the betterment of the team, short- and long-term? There are just a lot of question marks about Miami's organization and it's structure right now.

    Let's say, best case scenario happens, and we get a brilliant personnel guy. We come out of FA and the draft smelling like roses, we shoot the moon, go 12-4, and advance to the AFC Championship. After a 12-4 season and a deep playoff run, nothing is changing Joe Philbin's stature in the organization. At that point, other teams are going to be looking for a team czar with total power over their organizations, and it's likely that our brilliant personnel guy would be gone after one or two years. And we'll be going through this same search again. Yeah, fans will be thrilled that the Dolphins did so well, but in the long-term, I'm not sure it's so great. And that's in the best case scenario.

    The only way we likely keep the status quo is to have marginal improvement (10-6, Wild Card). And obviously, we could do worse, and even have more infighting, etc.

    What you would like is the foresight to have a system in place where you can keep GM and coach around for quite a while in a winning a stable organization. And I think it's that kind of lack of foresight that Steve Ross is missing - or it's not being explained to him. Whatever else it is, it's depressing.

    Enough of my Eeyore-ing. On the bright side, I would be ecstatic if we named Xanders as our GM, and it seems like he's still strong in the running. Despite all that I've said above, it is fact that there are only 32 NFL GM positions in the world, and we could certainly nail a good one. I think Philbin and Co. did a good job with the OC, and if we did come out of this last couple of weeks of searching (even though to a lot of the world we looked in the dark) with a Xanders/Lasor duo at GM and OC, I think we'd be winning the off-season so far. Go us!
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't post any non-facts. I only posted facts. Its you who is literally making stuff up.

    - Denver had a better team. Fact. Denver had more money. Fact. Denver was in a Brady-less division. Fact. Marshall wasn't on the team when we were courting Manning. Fact. Manning turned down better the best offer in Tennessee. Fact.

    Where as your stance is:

    - Manning didn't want to work with Ireland. Not a fact. Manning thought Ross was a moron. Not a fact. And....I think that sums up your entire stance.

    We were not on Manning's radar. That was because we didn't meet the criteria he was looking for, neither did Tennessee and they offered him the moon.

    Here's the thing, I'm willing to say it could have been because of Ireland or Ross, if you could provide some evidence that it was, because that's my M.O. Give me evidence. You on the other hand, ignore every last bit of facts, evidence, hints, suggestion and just stick with your already held beliefs. Its weak now as it was weak then.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Exactly, Denver was able to give him 18 mil year one, without any restructuring or making the team worse. Denver was in a position at that moment to get everything done, give him all his demands and be the perfect place for him to go.

    Miami was closer to 15 than they were 20, and I believe they were actually only 15 million.

    Ross was fighting an uphill battle. He at best had a 10% chance.
     
  23. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    But D you didn't give Seth any props for the "You gone full Francis" comment. So its YOU who are dumb, irrational and obviously blissfully unaware of the facts. That was pretty funny.

    Just the fact the old arguments revolving around Ireland still continue today should bring clarity.
     
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  24. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I can only conclude that you physically cannot read my stats and facts. It does not register with you. I provided, you cannot comprehend. That is not my problem. You are thus, a waste of time. And again,you are dead wrong on Tenn. You have said nothing of value other than Recycling Dupree's, "they had more money than us"

    EDIT: You have officially Gone Full Francis.
     
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  25. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Clearly they had a lot more talent as well.

    The difference in the two offenses was pretty much night and day at the time.

    If you're Manning that should of made the decision even easier.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I cannot argue this.

    I have clarity. It crystal clear the same people you said the same things before and after they had the facts are the emotional slaves I always took them for.
     
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  27. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Slick, I'm not talking obscure 3rd down %, or a specific half of the season stats, or hidden nonsense.

    Going into the 2011 off-season:

    We were 20th on O. They were 25th.

    We were 6th on D. They were 20th.

    I rest my defense that we had just as much if not more talent.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're not stating any facts as to why he chose Denver over Miami and Tennessee. Not sure how you not grasping that means I'm the one that can't read, but whatever.
     
  29. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    And you may continue to call a blue sky green.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Ok, here it is then....either Denver was a better team than us OR Ireland assembled a team that was better then Denver...which is it?
     
  31. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Where is there any fact stating manning picked Denver because they had more talent? And we assume the money part...but we never even had the chance to offer, because he judged us and our dysfunction long before it came to dollars and cents.
     
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  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What specifically did I say that was wrong exactly?
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Because they did have more talent and they did have more money. Nowhere is there evidence he found us to be a dysfunctional franchise.
     
  34. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    lol The facts you posted are much more obscure than just looking at the talent they had on O and adding Manning to it in this conversation.

    Yet you measure it w what they did w Tebow. Ok.
     
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  35. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Clearly Ireland, right? lol
     
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  36. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Lol..nice ultimatum.
     
  37. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the Ireland hate psycho-babble, or the fact that what Tenn offered amounted to a hopeless pile of ****, not ownership?
     
  38. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    What do you offer other than simply disagreeing?

    And how about the defensive side of the ball? 6th vs 24th? Or is that irrelevant in building a contender?


    And guess what, that team believed in Tebow...which is more than I can say for us and anything or anyone, the last 2 weeks of the season.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's not an ultimatium. That's the corner your emotional rhetoric has painted you into. You keep swearing we were more talented then Denver, and you keep saying Irleand had all the say on personnel leading up to that point. Its not my fault your argument is so bad it falls apart when logic is applied to it. Again, which is it, were we worse then Denver or were we more talented thanks to Ireland?

    Wait you don't hate ireland? And I gave you proof that ownership might have been part of the deal.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why is no one mentioning San Francisco? He almost went there.
     
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