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Caserio, viewed around league as ‘organizer’ not ‘decision maker’ meets again w/Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Not really as long as they kept making the playoffs.

    Everyone recognizes they have had some goofy drafts. But, they have also still landed several players who are contributors and had they been fully healthy going into the playoffs (Gronkowski; Wolfork; the DBs; etc. - they lost their two best offensive weapons for Brady before the season began in the two TEs - leaving aside Welker whom they let walk) and they would likely still be playing.

    THey have blown a number of choices but they have also landed a lot of good players whom the Phins passed over. Gronkowski alone is a better player than any player Miami has drafted since … what … Taylor and Thomas? That's probably the case. How about the DE Jones? Looks like a great player.

    It's not so much the misses that hurt (every great team has those) - it's whether you hit enough home runs or not. Miami's misses are glaring because their "keepers" in the draft are so mediocre or slightly above mediocre.
     
  2. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I am just going to sit back, have a beer, smoke a J and relax until someone is giving a ****ing press conference....because this has been the craziest GM search I have ever seen. It's like Ireland was a mad wizard and cursed our franchise as he exited the building.......
     
    slickj101, DPlus47 and Sceeto like this.
  3. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    after the Superbowl there will be a number of questions answered, including GM. having said that, I gave everyone a head's up on the day Ireland resigned. this has all been much to do about nothing. Ross is a player & gave the fan-base & media what they wanted, a litany of confusion, controversy & gossip to argue & worry about after the losing the last two games.

    G.M. Brian Gaine will do just fine & was never in doubt.
     
  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yes, that's what I'm saying. It takes time to learn New England's system and develop as a reliable pass protector. Plus he had some injury setbacks. But alas you see the plan unfolded this year with him being worked more in the passing game ala Danny Woodhead and then some, and you've seen since the first preseason game of their rookie year together that Ridley would be the guy toting the ball more often, which is why he carried it more right out of the gate in 2011 and had 292 carries to Vereen's 62 in 2012.

    The dynamic hasn't changed with Belichick. Essentially Vereen was to succeed Woodhead, and Ridley to succeed Benjarvis. It's just like it was with BGE & Woodhead in 2010 where BGE got the bulk of the carries [229 vs 97] and Woodhead got the bulk of the receptions and work on 3rd downs [34 catches vs 12]. Why do you think Belichick brought in Blount?... to mix it up in both the pass & run game or to pound the ball? It was to run the ball, which is why he had 152 rushes to just 2 receptions. His time ate into Ridley's touches, not so much Vereens, so what does that tell you about what they drafted the physical 220 pound Ridley to do?

    Seriously, Ridley had 17 receptions for 94 yards and 0 TDs at LSU and has just 19 catches in 3 years at NE. Do you honestly think he was drafted for his pass catching and route running ability? Meanwhile the smaller Vereen caught 74 passes for 674 yards and 6 TDs in college, and had 47 this year alone, in only 8 games no les. Just b/c Vereen was drafted higher it doesn't mean it was done so with the intention of running him more.
     
  5. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    food for thought: nothing wrong with organizers, just don't want them in executive positions
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Cannot agree with that.
     
  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Wrong. He's been groomed in the passing game from the time he was drafted, which is why they drafted him, you know- since it's a passing offense led by Brady that's always emphasized having a solid 3rd down/pass-catching back. What, you didn't stop to think amidst your reverse Confucius moment and ask yourself how Vereen was so capable and trusted by Belichick to step right in to the tune of 47 catches in 8 games even though half the receivers to pass through New England the last 6 or 7 years have had trouble seeing the field or being involved?
     
  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Then feel free to argue it b/c the topic is certainly debatable.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Ridley: 178 carries, Blount: 153, Bolden: 55, Vereen: 44. They are a RBBC team, but Ridley is their most used.
    He had 290 carries and over 1200 yds in 2012.
    Ireland bypassed him to take Daniel Thomas. :(
     
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Butler is Indy's nickel back, and playing well.
    Chung started for the Eagles
    Tate is the Bengals KR.
    I guess BB cut them because he found better players in later rounds or in free agency.

    I thought the Pats showed very good depth this past season. To lose so many starters and still make it to the AFC CG is pretty good. Brady of course played a big part, but he couldn't do it with just any bunch of scrubs.
     
  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    See, that was another BS rumor and Licht refuted that story himself. According to Jay Glazer and others, and later Armando himself, the Fins called Licht only to inform him that he was a finalist for the Dolphins position in the event he wanted to wait for the announcement. There was never a "last minute desperation offer" as PFT irresponsibility reported. It was also mentioned over at the phinsider - http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/...m-finalists-this-weekend-could-have-new-gm-by

    Armando's "correction" (and finger pointing at the Dolphins for not keeping him in the loop): http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...s-to-interview-gm-finalists-this-weekend.html


    People are too quick to jump to assumptions based on other assumptions based on rumors from "journalists" (sensationalists) who are only interested in being first to report something, whether it be true or not...
     
    MrClean likes this.
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The trades up and down, and the actual players picked get credited to BB. We do not know whom Caserio would have picked.
     
  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Wasn't this an episode of "Decoded"? You missed your calling as an investigative reporter. :tongue2:
     
  14. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    When did I say he wasn't solid in the passing game? Clearly he was drafted to take that role.

    All I was saying is Ridley wasn't drafted to be some bellcow 3-down RB and Vereen would still command quite a few carries if they didn't lose so many WRs and TEs.
     
  15. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I like your strategy. Think I'll do the same but grab yourself a vap and save your lungs and wallet.
     
  16. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    Amen! the way things have been around here...if we DON'T hire him...we are a joke...then if we DO hire him...we are a joke :)
     
    Fin D likes this.
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I respectfully don't see how it can be excused.

    Darius Butler: New England backed all the way out of the 23rd pick of '09 to take him with the 41st pick, passing up on Clay Matthews in the process even though they had the weakest collection of pass rushers in the league. Then amidst a poor secondary during Butler's second year, he could barely see the field and then was cut. He obviously was contributor to their secondary woes. Year 3 he was cut by Carolina. It's took him 4 years and 3 teams to become a contributor. That's a wasted pick.

    Pat Chung: I understand he's one of your Oregon boys and might be able to start for a few teams, but he was a part of New England's secondary woes, got benched, and then got benched and had his play count cut this year in Philly IIRC. For me, that doesn't fly for a 34th overall pick, and salt on the would- a safety who has been outperformed by Miami's 6th round Chris Clemons.

    Tate: being a kick returner isn't enough to justify a 3rd round pick. Perhaps if he's a top 3 kick and punt returner but he's not. He's slightly above middle of the road.

    And of course BB cut them b/c he found better or wanted better. That's what happens when the player isn't producing, no? It wasn't b/c Butler & Chung were doing great but NE happened to find better. It was b/c the secondary was terrible with them in it. Butler was the reason NE had to use the 33rd pick in 2011 on Ras-I Dowling. Not to mention, the receiving talent behind Tate & Taylor Price was awful yet they were still cut.... and neither have done much in the passing game since then despite going to other teams. If they were worth anything, they'd be playing.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When you have a roster as talented as theirs, it stands to reason IMO, you are not going to be able to keep as many draft picks.
     
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...and the trade downs killed them for the most part b/c they sacrificed better available talent [like Clay Matthews, Dez Bryant, and Demaryius Thomas to name a few] only to bomb all those extra 3rd round picks and beyond.

    47 draft picks in the 3rd round and beyond from 2006-12 and all they reaped was Denard, backup tackle Marcus Cannon, Gostkowski, punter Mesco, Edelman [who took 5 years to become a starter], special teamer Slater, and short-lived, imprisoned Hernandez. Those were the only contributors.

    But that's it, and when I say that's, it I really mean that's it. The next closest to making this list are Myron Pryor, a reserve 6th round DT with 20 tackles in 4 years.... ... 7th rounder Brandon Deaderick who got to see the field a little despite being a liability..... and Jonathan Wilhite, a reserve 4th round CB who had 13 unimpressive, scattered starts scattered 3 years and was cut thereafter.

    47 draft picks and only 5 starters... 4 of which were a kicker, punter, receiver who took 5 years to become a starter, and a TE about to be convicted of murder after just 38 games. Everything else was basically a steaming pile of crap.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Like I said, BB had final say on picks and trades. Somewhere though he found enough good players to be an annual division winner most every season in the last 10.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't see how you arrive at the this conclusion. They have Belichick & Brady. The rest of the roster is average to good at best. How else does an inferior coached and inferior quarterbacked Miami team beat them in their own backyard and have them on the ropes the prior two of three games or so? They had 6 wins decided by 3 points or less this year, and 5 of those were 4th quarter comebacks by Brady. They could've easily been an 8-8 or worse team without Tom & BB, including losses they would've had in week 2 vs the Jets and week 8 against us.

    so then why did their draft picks go on to do nothing elsewhere too? At some point or another during the 7 year stretch I mentioned, the Pats had problems at corner, problems at safety, problems at WR, problems at pass rusher, and problems or issues at DT/DE next to Wilfork. There hasn't been a quality level continuity across the entire team like you're trying to make it seem. They've had just as many problems as we've had for the most part. Only difference is they have Brady & Belichick to make up for it.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    It's called the greatest coach in NFL history paired with one of the greatest QBs in NFL history, which is why they haven't won a SB in 10 years, and ironically- the last time they did win it, it was when Brady wasn't really Brady yet. Now that was a talented Patriots team. If Brady went down this year they would've been a 6 win team at best. And being an annual division winner in a division with Dolphins, Bills, and Jets isn't really a monumental feat, no?
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No, Ridley would be the 2 down bell cow just as the Pats wanted of him in 2012 and just as the Pats employed with BGE before him, and Vereen would be the COP/3rd down back to compliment him [just as Danny Woodhead did prior] who gets plenty of touches in his own right since it's a successful passing oriented offense. Not sure what's so difficult to understand that one of these two backs are better at running the ball on 1st & 2nd down and one is better on 3rd down and out of the backfield?

    So by your argument, I take it if we signed Darren Sproles in 2011 and Ricky Williams were still present and healthy, they would've split the carries down the middle?
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    With Shula and Marino we had one of the greatest of each, but only had the supporting cast to reach one SB with the pair of them. We never had the depth to overcome key injuries such as in 1990.
    It's all academic now, since Caserio is staying in NE.
     

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