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Salguero: Caserio wanted to clean house

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The core issue is with Ross, ultimately. It was not that they did not like Philbin but the GMs who were top caliber talent wanted to be a real GM, not a glorified personnel director. They did not want their future success tied to the owner's love for a coach. Or to an owner making football decisions who had no proven track record. It's not like they were being hired by George Young or the Rooneys.
     
  2. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    No guarantee on that. But, I'd definitely take the latter (don't want McDaniel doing the personnel stuff but would still take the latter).

    The bottom line is, the team needs a GM to lead them the next 10 years. He needs to be a guy who has proven talent at finding players and coaches and respect around the league.
     
  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well..for what its worth..Hickey had the most experience setting up a draft and scouting college kids of any of them. Hell who knows what kind of job he will do. All we can do is hope its one of those stories where guy finally gets his shot...and teams end up goin..damn..why didnt we ever hire him.

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  4. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    But..if say the Phins did start winning...Ross being a loyal owner like say the Rooneys becomes an asset...not a negative.

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  5. Mr772

    Mr772 New Member

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    Can't say I blame them if they watched how poorly this team was coached they knew they couldn't be successful with this head coach/staff.
     
  6. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    The best candidates got away because we are making the same mistake we made last year.Keeping Ireland reduced the number of candidates at HC.
    Keeping Philbin and Aponte has reduced the number of candidates at GM.So we end up as a training ground for for first time HCs and a GM who was about to be fired from one of the weaker teams because of his grating personality and poor draft selections.


    This pattern will not change unless Ross finally makes a clean sweep of his employees who have demonstrated they are not up to the job.Or until he names someone who is respected in the NFL to run his football operations.Ross should stick to businesses he knows IMO.
     
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  7. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree completely. In hindsight of course. I was willing to give Ross the benefit if the doubt, because he had football men to get guidance from.

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  8. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

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    I don't get the decision to pass on the position from any lower level position from a human standpoint. So what you don't have total control, you are getting a few hundred thousand more a year and can always go back to a much easier to find lower position. Realistically there's only 32 gm positions and maybe 2-3 open up a year?he could realistically forge rest of his career without ever being offered a gm position again. Guess his ego is that important to him that he needs all or nothing.
     
  9. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    From a professional standpoint would you hitch your wagon to unfamiliar people? In most cases they only get "one shot" at being a GM, so why risk it? If the consensus around the league is that the Dolphins org is the real problem then I don't think these GMs in waiting have anything to worry about down the road.
     
  10. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    The Jets went through a very similar process last year. They actually interviewed a total of 10 candidates. They showed interest in an additional 3 that never ended up interviewing. One of the 10 who interviewed eventually withdrew their name (Marc Ross - Giants director of college scouting). One of the 10 interviewed twice, was made an offer, but ended up taking the Jags GM job. Tom Heckert, former Browns GM, canceled his interview over converns with the cap.

    Tannenbaum was fired on Dec 31. Owner Woody Johnson held a press conference on Jan 8th to clarify that the new GM would be required to work with Rex Ryan for a period of one year.

    The candidates that received two interviews:
    Dave Caldwell - Falcon's director of player personnel. Ended up taking the Jags GM offer.
    Omar Kahn - Steelers director of football and business administration. The second interview included Rex Ryan.
    John Idzik - Seahawks vice president of football administration. The second interview included Rex Ryan.

    John Idzik was eventually hired on Jan 18th.

    There are a few differences between the Jets process and the Dolphins process. However, if reports are true, the biggest difference is that the Jets candidates were told they would have to spend one year with Rex Ryan before they could fire him and the Miami candidates were told they could *never* fire Philbin. That is a major difference and one that severely limited the list of candidates that would consider working with that stipulation. I believe NY would have had the same problem if Woody Johnson had declared that Rex Ryan was untouchable. Thankfully, Johnson had enough sense not to do that. Woody loves Rex, but realized that he simply can't permanently force a coach on a GM. Apparently Ross didn't think this was a problem. I am not sure what Philbin has shown Ross that makes him untouchable. At least Ryan had accomplished something in the NFL, and those two playoff runs earned him a one year tryout period. Ross should have done the same, even though Philbin has no such track record. But it would have been better that what he eventually did.

    Just my two cents from a Jets fan perspective.
     
  11. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Caserio will have plenty of chances to get a general manager job, so I get why he turned it down. I am surprised that guys like Farmer and Dawson would pass up the opportunity. They certainly weren't hot candidates before this search. In fact I don't think either one had ever interviewed for a GM job before the Dolphins.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's where the media came in. These candidates wanted more power, which is fine and a normal thing to want. Then they start hearing the negative (unwarranted) stuff from the press, so adding that to the fact they want more power they stay away. This is the tail wagging the dog.

    Just go back to the beginning of this search. A handful of reporters (Armando, Florio, Beasley, LaConfra) started making waves that the power structure was crazy and weird and no one would like it. Fritz-Pollard then asks for clarification. They get the clarification from Ross and Fritz-Pollard says ok and they'll recommend the job to their people. The 4 reporters I mentioned more or less ignore that clarification and keep harping on the "power structure". During that time they all give false info about who is and who isn't favorites. They also keep pushing the idea that Aponte is just a capologist. They name some candidates like Gamble, DeCosta & McGoughlan and everyone knows they aren't leaving the situations they are in. So now, lo and behold, there's the first 3 guys who turned us down, doesn't matter that they would turn EVERYONE down. All the media has to do is say our first 3 prospects turned us down and then continue to talk about our power structure and people start believing those 3 turned us down because of the structure, Aponte, Philbin, Ross, etc. Other candidates read that and start to wonder what the problem is and go in expecting there is a problem. Round and round it goes.

    Which leaves us two horrible choices, Gaine & Hickey. Gaine is horrible candidate form a PR standpoint since he is so closely tied with Ireland, which is poison. Hickey sucks even worse from a performance standpoint but at least the casual fan knows he had nothing to do with Ireland.
     
  13. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    The Jets were competing with other teams. If I'm not mistaken there were like half a dozen openings last year. The Dolphins only competition was the Buccaneers, and that was a neutered job because Lovie has final say. And like you say the Jets were in cap hell while the Fins have a pretty good cap situation. Didn't matter though.
     
  14. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the structure thing was overblow. Maybe not. Maybe it was all because of Philbin being retained. We'll never really know. However, I find Lake Dawson's statement telling -- the "details of the offer didn't align with my vision". I don't know what that means exactly but he obviously wasn't comfortable with something.
     
  15. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    There were opening for the Chargers, Jags and Chiefs, which went to Tom Telesco, Dave Caldwell and John Dorsey. There could have been others, but these 3 were involved in the Jets GM search.
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    All reports seem to say the same thing.

    GM's want the ability to be able to fire the coach in 2015 if 2014 goes bad.

    Ross wants to make that decision.
     
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  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Well Ross is a football savant with a history of great coachibg decisions....oh wait...
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's not the point at all.

    The point is, Ross, like many other teams, doesn't want the GM to have THAT much power. Lets not forget that he probably has a number of people with football knowledge guiding him here.

    Also, just because a GM wants to fire a HC doesn't mean the GM is right nor does it mean if he is right, that Ross won't fire the HC.

    This has been so overblown.
     
  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    No man it really hasn't. Like I said before, most of the newer GM prospects want that power because it is a new trend.

    All that aside, even if you are right, Ross is a ****ing dip**** who can't take the time to learn the names of the men he interviews. You know cause the name "Ray" is so foreign and exotic it must be hard.

    I tried to justify this too for as long as possible, but I'm not stupid and I can see how big of an idiot Ross is.
     
  20. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Everything is an overblown media invention to Fin D. Things are just peachy, everyone. Do not believe the rumors.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Even if Ross wanted to keep Philbin around, that's fine, as long as you tell the new GM its a one year thing only. Similar to what the Jets did, after that, if its still not working, then let the new GM be a part of a coaching search afterwards. You've got to give up some control to your GM, or you're likely never going to get a GM worth a damn. We were looking for a puppet GM, not a GM that had any sort of control. Which is exactly the reason most of them left us behind IMO.

    If the team tanks this year, I sure as hell hope Ross realizes it, or at least someone from the outside makes him realize that he has no clue what he's doing, the only way to fix this mess is to clean house completely, hire a good sound football mind to run the show, then let them hire the GM, let the GM assist in hiring the coach, get everyone on the same page, with the same common vision. Right now we have Philbin's vision, Aponte's vision, and now Hickey's. It's only a matter of time until they all collide again and make a mess, just like this season. They can pull the wool over your eyes and say theyre going to work together all the want to, but when the rubber meets the road, and decisions need to be made that may have an affect on their livelihoods down the road... theyre going to collide, and it wont be pretty again.
     
  22. OkiePhin

    OkiePhin Well-Known Member

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    Adam Schefter: Source close to Lake Dawson insist that, for GM job, he never requested final say on whether MIA HC Joe Philbin would be back after 2014.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First of all, go **** yourself.

    Secondly, I never said everything was just peachy. Tell you what, instead of *****ing about me and crying like a little girl all the damn time about the team, why don't you go ahead and make a list of all the teams that let their GM fire the HCs and the ones that don't. Then we'll have a reasonable debate about what is and is not wrong about the current power structure of the Dolphins.

    All you little cry babies have yet to actually refute this stuff and instead act like little girls who didn't get a pony for Christmas. Its pathetic.

    The team has real problems. Public perception and Hickey are two major problems right now. The team needs a complete overhaul on the oline, and our $60 million receiver needs to get serious about his timing with Tannehill. We have a big time 1st round pick who is disappointing with this attitude and effort. We need a new stadium or upgrades to the current one. There's plenty of other things as well. Stop painting me as a homer or optimist, cause I'm neither and it is getting effing infuriating that you sandy vaginas will label anyone who doesn't have an end of the world view as optimists/homers/whatever other stupid BS you jackasses say.

    Maybe instead of football you guys should try watching the Lifetime channel.
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    EVERY GM prospect wants more power. That's not new. That's not a current trend.

    The name thing is also overblown. Ross is a man in his 70s with a whole hell of a lot going on. If he did say Roy instead of Ray or Sanders instead of Xanders, then the people offended by that are more of a problem than he is.
     
  25. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    What have any of these upstarts done to prove they deserve power to fire a coach. What if they have a crappy draft and sign another bunch of scrubs in FA. I don't want that guy having more power. None of these guys has a track record as a proven GM. If it was Ted Thompson etc. I'd be all for it. Prove yourself first.
     
  26. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but the notion that no one wanted the job because of public perception and some blog posts by Armando Salguero is just absolutely absurd. Dawson and Caserio interviewed TWICE. They clearly didn't like what they were hearing from the Dolphins. In the case of Dawson he released a statement that explicitly said as much. I don't claim to know exactly what turned them off but it was something. And it wasn't because of the media.

    There isn't a GM in football (besides Jerry Jones) who can just fire the coach without consulting with ownership first.

    The problem with the structure as I see it is you have the coach and GM both reporting to an owner who is never in the building. People love to bring up the 49ers but Jed York is not an absentee owner. He is the boss and works in the building. He also grew up in a football family and understands the league better than Stephen Ross does. Ross needs to hire a football person, be it a czar or whomever, that is the de-facto boss and is over the football ops department and keeps him abreast of the things that he needs to know. Ross is clearly too busy with other ventures to do it and that's fine. I would be fine if he wants to make Aponte the boss. Just say that so everyone is clear.
     
  27. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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  28. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Maybe if he is in his 70s and losing his mental capacities you are just making my point for me.

    You're just excusing what could possibly be the WORST GM hire we have ever made. Worse than Speilman, Randy M. and Ireland COMBINED.
     
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  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I am not excusing anything. Jesus ****ing Christ, what the **** is wrong with you people.

    I have said I'm against the Hickley hire and that it is a MAJOR problem for us.

    Being in his 70s and saying Sanders instead of Xanders is NOT losing mental capacity. It is just a fairly normal thing and not even close to a big deal and certainly not a reason anyone turned down the job.
     
  30. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Well, just a thought, but how about you let the guy have at least one draft before you make such a definitive and hyperbolic statement.

    The circumstances and decisions that lead to the hire might have been less than ideal, to say the least, but the guy might well turn out to be half decent. No reason to think he's going to be the worst GM in the history of GMs. At least not yet.
     
  31. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    If you go and read my other posts you'll see I have said I'm going to give him a chance to be judged on his own merit.

    However I am going to state my opinion on the man, and it is very very low. If given the choice between Ireland and Hickey I would gladly choose Ireland every single day of the week and I wanted him fired. I just didn't assume we would hire someone I consider worse based on his past history.
     
  32. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    So you would chose some you already know was ****e, over someone who could possibly have some upside? Sounds smart.
     
  33. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    thats good stuff Bam..thanks for sharing

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
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  34. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I don't believe Ireland was ****ty. I believe he was very average, but in his defense never had a QB until Tannehill which impacts a GM in a huge way.

    On the other hand I see Hickey as a man who has progessed by who he knows and not what he has done. He has basically accomplished nothing positive in his career. A Tampa fan made a long post here about his entire career with T as mpa and it is highly damning if even partially true, and it seems to be.
     
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  35. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I will say that he has a chance at some immediate success if he can simplg fix the offensive line. The long term still worries me though. Luckily it seems like the hardest part, quarterback, is taken care of.
     
  36. PlanB

    PlanB New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  37. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Well for what it's worth, IMO an Ireland type is much more damaging for an organization than if Hickey turns out to be horrible. An average GM gives you far more cause to hesitate in replacing him because you are very much cognizant of the fact that you can end up with someone worst. Whereas if you know you have a horrible GM, true you are in bad shape, but you'd have no problem in pulling the trigger and firing his *** because at the very least, you cannot do worse.

    Ireland lasted so long because he always seemed to put this team just one year removed from being there. He just happened to lack that extra bit of talent to actually make it happen. That's a vicious cycle.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Saying its absurd doesn't make it absurd. I'm saying the public perception was generated in large part by the media. That perception mixed with the fact these candidates wanted more power meant it was easy to say no. The candidates are just as susceptible to the perception as the public. So they go into their interviews expecting the worse and every little thing that would get overlooked somewhere else (ie Ross saying the wrong name) gets turned into a red flag. I'm not creating things like this out of thin air.

    Considering our power structure is not unique or bad or negative, its very likely the view of us was poisoned by the media. Are you really going to argue that media can't effect people's perceptions?

    Exactly my point, so why all the guffawing over it here?

    Completely reasonable. There are other absentee owners in the league, there are some that only show up once a week. I am not against a czar, but I don't think nor have I heard any evidence that the problem was reporting to Ross and not a czar.
     
  39. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    All he wanted to do was clean house? I want someone to detonate the house.
     
  40. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    You're welcome. Here it is laid out in timeline fashion: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/19977/gm-journey-the-path-to-idzik

    The NY media had a field day with this. Check out this hatchet job: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...stick-flawed-formula-article-1.1242850?pgno=1 Jets fans were very upset with the Idzik hire. I see a lot of parallels with the Miami situation, but there are some differences. One thing that someone here pointed out is that NY's cap situation was a disaster. The incoming GM knew his hands were going to be tied that first year because of the mess Tannenbaum left him. The knock on Idzik was that he didn't have much personnel experience. But by in large, I think he had a decent first draft (Kiper gave him a B+). And even though he was limited by the cap, he made a few FA additions that worked out.

    You guys aren't going to know what you have in Hickey for a while. He may turn out to be great. And those other guys may have turned out to be crap. Personally, I would be far more concerned about Philbin and Ross's undying dedication to him. That's just my opinion.
     

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