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Ideal Free Agency / Draft

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Alan112, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Alan112

    Alan112 Member

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    Lets keep this REALISTIC fellas, lol

    Mine looks something like:

    First, restructure Mike Wallace's and Dimitri Patterson's contracts. Cut Matt Moore. Love him, but too pricey to not do anything. (Maybe we can trade him to Cleveland, Jax, or Oakland :pointlol:) Try trading Danny Thomas too, cut if we can't

    Resign Grimes, Carroll , Jimmy Wilson, Starks. Let Clemons and Soliai walk. Bring back either McKinney or Clabo to compete for RT
    Sign Eugene Monroe and Jon Asamoah. If not Monroe then Brandon Albert (Monroe over Albert because of age). If not Asamoah, Zane Beadles.
    Sign Stevie Brown (that 2012 season man) or Ryan Clark
    Sign Brandon Pettigrew
    Mock Draft 3 rounds
    1: Zack Martin
    2: Ed Reynolds
    3. Carlos Hyde
     
  2. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Cut/Trade: Moore (4m in cap savings) Patterson (5.3M) and Brandon Gibson

    Sign Jared Veldheer (4 years 26M/10M guaranteed) - Based on Longs 4/34 with the Rams this should be in the right ball park. Backup plan is Albert but he would cost more because Veldheer is coming off a significant injury and frankly I dont think hes as good

    Sign Alex Mack (5/27.5/10M guaranteed) - Shift Pouncey to LG

    Sign Jon Asomoa or Zane Beadles for RG...whichever is cheaper. Both have played in zone blocking schemes before.

    Sign either Austin Howard or Marshall Newhouse at RT...again whichever is cheaper. Howard will cost more because hes coming off a pretty good year but either would be an adequate upgrade.

    Resign Carroll Grimes Clemons and Soliai. I love Starks but Odrick is virtually the same player just younger and a little more versatile.

    Id like to add Sam Shields, EJ Biggers Aaron Ross Javier Arenas or another relatively low cost corner as well.

    Draft....Id love to move up and get Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins. This team needs a red zone wr with athleticism like crazy. We have players who stretch the field veritically now we need one that stretches it vertically upward. It probably wont happen the way I want it to so for purposes of keeping it somewhat realistic...

    1 Eric Ebron TE
    2 Bishop Sankey RB
    3 Dominique Easley DT
    4 Christian Jones ILB
    5 Seantrel Henderson OT
    6 Shaquelle Evans WR
    7 Jeff Matthews QB

    ***Draft slots based on rankings by CBS Sports***
     
  3. BSQ

    BSQ New Member

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    Jetsuck, I'm with you except I'm a big fan of Brandon Gibson. He was playing awesome before his injury so if back 100% I'm for keeping him. Love Ebron and Wadkins. What about Keller if healthy and ready. Tannehill was hitting him all over the place. Maybe too injury prone?
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Alex Mack will cost 9-10 million/year like the league's other highest paid interior linemen...... but I would still love to sign him regardless.

    Satisfying much of the Oline in FA in order to free up the 1st pick for an impact player like Ebron would please me as well. Considering we don't employ a traditional inline TE to aid us better in the ground game, but rather an H-back [Clay] instead, I think it'd behoove us to go with dual H-backs rather than an H-back & slot receiver.
     
  5. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    you are dreaming if you think you can land Veldheer and Sam Shields on the cheap. And I thought Brandon Gibson looked better than Rishard Matthews. I would keep Gibson and Patterson and put them in bubble wrap next year.
     
  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didnt foresee Mack getting that kind of coin. If he got over 8 or so Id probably move on to De La Puente or just keep Pouncey at C and move on to a traditional LG like a Geoff Schwartz.

    Veldheer just missed almost the whole year with a triceps tear. Theres no way hes getting the kind of coin he would have otherwise. may as well swoop in and get him cheaper. If hes at the same price range as Albert Id still take Veldheer. I dont think Shields commands that big a payday with more proven CB's on the market but thats why I listed a handful of them. Pick one.

    Gibson is a good player but hes not fast or explosive before the injury I cant imagine he comes back faster. Matthews is just as good in my opinion. If you wanted you can always turn around and invest that in a higher pick or a veteran FA like a Cotchery, Andre caldwell, maybe even a Kenny Britt if he passes whatever sanity tests we want to give him :lol: ...point is you can find good wr's to buy low and who are healthier.
     
  7. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I read Mack was looking for Ryan Kalil money, which is about 8 mil a year.

    Mack is going to be 29 next November. I don't want to give him a 5 year deal, but I'm sure somebody will. This is just another reason why players who can enter the league when they are younger have a huge advantage. If he was 27 I would give him 5 years 42 mil in a heartbeat.

    I like the idea of moving Pouncey to OG. I like the idea of trading him for multiple picks or Prince Amukamara even better.

    I would rather use a veteran stopgap at OC and draft Gabe Ikard. I believe Ikard will become an elite center but he needs a year to get stronger.
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Amukamura is not going anywhere imo...the Giants are destitute of good corners aside from him but even from a value standpoint Id value Pouncey higher. Hes one of the 3 or 4 best centers in the league along with De La Puente Kalil and Mack while Amukamura is a pretty average CB, maybe even above average but hes not one of the 30 best corners in the league based on what Ive seen from Amukamura. Ive watched every game of his career and while PFF's rankings dont do him justice since hes frequently matched up on other teams 1's but he doesnt do a particularly good job on them either. He doesnt play the ball particularly well in terms of creating turnover and he has a hard time staying on the field. Every training camp its something else with him. If you want to trade Pouncey you can do better.
     
  9. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    Can't see a druggie like Pouncey lasting through 16 games and the playoffs. I'd move him out see if we can get a 2nd or 2 3rds for him. New OL coach just wipe the slate clean along the line and rebuild through FA and use the draft on TE, WR, DL and LB.
     
  10. Alan112

    Alan112 Member

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    ONE SECOND OR 2 THIRDS?! Estas loko
     
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  11. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    2 3rds for our good players seems to be the market we set with the marshal trade
     
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  12. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not as concerned about the tendon surgeries as in the past. Almost all these guys are getting stem cell therapy now, especially since what happened with Peyton Manning.

    It still isn't FDA approved in the US so no insurance pays for it, but there are clinics here in the US. There is one near where I live in Phoenix. The miraculous results are irrefutable.

    These are not the controversial embryonic cells. The therapy uses your own cells.

    Example: I had three surgeries on the same hernia. It was hellishly painful. Now, they are injecting stem cells into surgical hernia wounds with almost 100% success on first procedures. If I had been very rich, I could have went to Switzerland where Manning went and had the procedures done by professionals who have been doing it for years, and would only have needed one surgery. I think they culture the stem cells from bone marrow there.

    This is why I would be willing to take a flier on WR Danario Alexander. He is still only 25. He has had several knee surgeries and would be a risk, however if he is now getting the stem cell injections into the knees he may return to 100%. And a 100% means a 6'5" 220 guy who runs a 4.4 and has a 46 inch vertical. Not only that he has excellent ball tracking skills and wins under duress. A bonafide red zone threat and a guy who can get open deep and make the catch.

    If healthy he could be the component to put the Miami receiving corps into the elite category.
     
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  13. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Actually, if I were GM and actually making a pitch I would demand Cooper Taylor in the deal as well. Taylor is a 6'4" 230 SS with 4.5 speed that I would convert to a cover LB. He is already a good ST's guy but I think Coyle could turn him into a guy who could shut down the WR/TE's of the league including Gronk. Cooper was an academic all american and has the smarts to even become a leader. The reason Cooper Taylor wasn't drafted higher is that he has some bizarre rare disease and could die at any time, but who couldn't die at any time. He hurt his shoulder at the end of last year but the other issue seems past him.
     
  14. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we keep Moore. None quantity for relatively cheap. Cheaper is easy, but don't know if they can do squat. No way Hyde falls to the 3rd round, or at least not mid 3rd where we are.
     
  15. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin, you'll get no argument from me on Danario Alexander....I had a 1st round grade on him when he came out prior to his 2nd injury. Love his size, work ethic and ability to deal with adversity. Helps that he can play too. Ideally I'd like to replace Gibson with someone like him. Let Matthews be out 3rd down/slot guy and let Alexander come in in red zone situations.

    Regarding Cooper Taylor he's a talented player but he really doesn't have a position unless you make him a wolb in a true Wanny like 4-3. In a hybrid like this I'm not sure there's room for specialist types. Which is one reason I don't really like hybrid defenses. I much prefer a true 34 or even base nickel which is basically what seattle plays.
     
  16. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    FA: Brandon Albert, Ben Tate, Brent Grimes
    Draft: Eric Ebron, David Yankey, Lache Seastrunk
     
  17. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Alex Mack shouldn't expect much more then what Chris Myers got back in the day. Myers got 4 years at $25 million with $14 million guaranteed ($8 million to sign).

    As far as Carroll or Wilson go....I'd look at FA's that would cost as much as they would.........but maybe with the ability to blossom in Coyle's system. I think we've seen the best those 2 could play and it was only tolerable. Need guys who can get their hands on balls. Sam Shields is 50/50 to make it to FA because he's looking for Sean Smith money..........and he's just as inconsistent. (Would you believe in the last 3 years he's been graded negatively by PFF in one and pretty much tied Nolan Carroll this past year?). Could blossom as a #2 in Coyle's system though. Cheaper options could be Trumaine McBride. Journeyman corner who played solidly for the Giants this year.

    Starks and Odrick are by far our 2 best rated DT's. I'd rather let Soliai go and find a cheaper option space plugger.

    As for the Boik idea of moving Pouncey to LG. A cheaper center option could be Green Bay's Evan Dietrich-Smith. He's the same age as Mack. Started off as a project FA in 2009. Started to come together in 2012 and quietly had a very good 2013. Only had 2 PFF red games for the year compared to 9 green games. Can screen block with any other center and still has room to get better in his now prime years.

    Low cost hidden gem could be Indy's Joe Reitz for RG. Was pretty solid filling in for Indy this year. Could sign him and have him compete with Garner/Thomas etc for RG.

    That should save you the cap money to go after Albert or Veldheer.
     
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  18. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Ebron is ranked #14 indicating he will be taken before we pick at 19. Yankee is ranked #31, it's unlikely Phins can draft both.
     
  19. Alan112

    Alan112 Member

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    where a player is ranked does not determine when they are taken
     
  20. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    OK let's draft Greg Robinson at 19.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Wanna bet? Myers got this contract as a 32 year old. His reference is inadmissible.

    If you think a 28 year old All Pro center [and 2x Pro Bowl] will command the same that we paid in 2008 for the slightly above average but injured Justin Smiley, then you're gonna be in for a big surprise. Mack is arguably top 3 at his position and still in the prime of his career. He'll easily command a contract equal to or better than the highest paid interior linemen in the league. period. Andy Levitre got $46 million last year and he's never been to a Pro Bowl, let alone be named All Pro. Carl Nicks signed for $47.5M for 5 years in 2012.
     
  22. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    I think they should franchise Grimes for 1 year. They have that $19 mil roll over, they should use $11 mil for Grimes and revisit next year. And if someone decides to pay him that or more, Phins get high picks.
     
  23. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Copied from the other free agency thread...

    My Plan:

    Re-sign:
    Starks
    Carroll
    Clemons

    Cut:
    Patterson
    Jon Martin
    Wheeler

    Cut/Trade:
    Matt Moore

    FA Signings:
    Sam Shields
    Jared Veldheer or Eugene Monroe
    Geoff Schwartz
    Dekoda Watson
    Al Woods

    this would give us some flexibility in the 1st to truly go BPA, like taking a stud like Ebron, which gives our offense some much needed size, length, and leaping ability. Then in the 2nd round you simply go best OL available, and we'd probably have to take another offensive lineman in the 3rd or 4th, guys like Morgan Moses, Tiny Richardson, Cyril Richardon, Billy Turner, JuWaun James could go in that range, we could even gamble on a Seantrel Henderson if we have faith in John Benton getting the most out of him. you also get Daniel Thomas's replacement in the 3rd or 4th be it a Carlos Hyde or Jeremy Hill etc.
     
  24. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Chris Myers was 29 when he signed his deal and the backbone of the Houston run game (in fact was #3 in PFF ratings that year and is consistently ranked high). His deal is STILL in the top 5 contracts for centers right now and #2 for average guarantee per year. Not sure how your argument is helped by pointing out a bunch of guards. Guards still make more money then Center. The only 2 deals that were significantly bigger then Myers both guys were younger, had to sign for 7 years minimum and got less of a percentage of their contracts guaranteed (56% for Myers, 29.8% for Mangold and 38.7% for Kalil). I do expect Mack to get paid better......just not by much.
     
  25. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    One way to spend the $19 mil roll over is to restructure Wallace, Hartline, Ellerbe and Wheeler so that their guarantees are paid or largely paid this year. Budget permitting, that would leave Phins with $0 guaranteed owed if those are cut next year, plus it would make them easier trade targets for teams who are potentially interested.
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sorry but you're high. St Louis gave Jason friggin' Brown 5yr/$38 million, and Jake Grove got 5yr/$29 million from Miami, and those contracts were like 5 years ago. Alex Mack is an ALL PRO who plays like the first rounder he was drafted as. He has both the pedigree and 5 years of having proven himself.

    Chris Myers on the other hand received only $25 million in 2011 b/c he was an unproven 6th rounder who had just one or two prior seasons of good play after 5 years of not doing much at all. Proper context. You act like he was an established stud his entire career like Mack has been since the day he was drafted. You're forgetting the Texans acquired him from Denver for a measly 6th rounder a few years prior.

    Had Myers performed at his recent level for his entire career, you can damn well bet his contract would've been higher. You wanna talk about me using guards as a reference, well that bears greater significance than using a player with a short track record of success, especially now that centers are viewed as valuable as guards, if not more so b/c of all the A gap blitzing.


    like I said previously, wanna bet? Signatures? I'll even give you a $20 million handicap. I'll say Mack gets closer to double the dollar amount you're suggesting. You said $25 million, so how about- if Mack signs for less than $45 million then you win?
     
  27. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Your playing games here. Your saying he's going to earn nearly double what Myers will...then stop playing games with the figures and go with the yearly average salary. Myers average per year is $6,250,000. His guaranteed per yer is $3.5 million. For Mack to get double he'll have to pull an avg salary of $12.5 million per year with a $7 million a year guarantee avg. Or he could simply get franchise tagged....but the Browns may tag Ward instead.

    You sure you want to continue with this double money silliness? For a guy so important his own team might not even re-sign him?

    I believe his contract will be around a $7-7.2 year avg which isn't that much more. Are you really splitting hairs over what might be a million difference between our views? ;p
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I said twice the contract amount, not twice the annual amount.

    Even if we went by annual salary, you said 4 year/$25 million. That's just over $6 million/year. I'm saying he gets roughly 5 year/$47 million. That's over $9 million/year. I think that's a little more than splitting hairs.
     
  29. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Well there was your problem. Right from the beginning I said he shouldn't get much more then Myers 4 years $25 million with $8 million to sign. Never stated that he was going to sign an exact 4 years $25 million. My fault...just assumed people would look at the yearly average.

    Still I'd be surprised if Mack got that without some bullcrap inflated backend like Nick Mangold's (who only got just over a million more in bonus and a couple million more guaranteed but had to sign for 7..but looks like a 4 year deal). Kalil managed to pull off $19 million guaranteed and $18 million to sign. However while he got $8.1 million per season it's also back ended and he's restructured once already. He's got 2 seasons coming up that his team will be paying $10-11 million in cap...for a center. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't see it all. Myers on the other hand was a realistic contract with even the final year tolerable.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with a lot of that except signing Carroll to a free agent contract and releasing Patterson..Maybe see if you can restructure Patterson, of course we all know he couldn't stay healthy, but if his offseason goes well I sure liked how he impacted the defense, and Carroll's gonna cost you something to sign him, plus we have Jamar Taylor waiting in the wings..

    Injuries can heal during the offseason..I can't count on injuries if I'm starting with healthy players..
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't franchise grimes, I'd lock him up..give him a three year deal.
     
  32. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Eric Decker will test the market...too bad we overpaid for Wallace who is on the same talent level. Actually worse when you factor in the "headcase" part of Wallace.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not sure if you are serious
     
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  34. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    eric "no show @ super bowl" decker ?
     
  35. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think letting Soliai walk is a bad move...he has quietly become our 'Vince Wilfork'...a guy that is a consistent force, if not spectacular. Now, perhaps Coyle has different ideas of what he wants from his NT/inside Tackles, but....
     
  36. ConvenientTruth

    ConvenientTruth Member

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    Some general notes on these...

    The Dolphins may be in good cap shape, but not as good as signing the Premier LT, G, and CB during this FA period

    Wallace has no reason to restructure

    Cutting Wheeler will hurt this team with his "dead Money"...keeping him one more season is the only option

    Veldheer is not leaving Oakland...they are cap rich and he has indicated he wants to stay
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Brent Grimes is a perfect example of where the business side of things is an unpleasant reality.

    Everyone wants to live in Happy Land where Grimes is signed to a long term deal and continues to be a marquee player and a great free agent find.

    Unfortunately I think there are some unpleasant realities associated with an undersized 31 year old cornerback who has had more than his share of injuries throughout his career. Depening on which players you look at, he's either reaching the age or is right on the cusp of the age at which many corners drop off significantly, and many of the corners that came before him and dropped off around that age were not necessarily dealing with a torn Achilles tendon.

    There's a reason the Falcons let him go and it's not because they didn't like him. They loved him. They just knew that the part of his career that he was entering was going to be very turbulent and worst of all, uncertain.

    If he were about to drop off the map altogether then that would be easy. You can all agree on what kind of financial commitment he should expect and how much the team should pin on him responsibility-wise when they go into the planning stages of the off season. On the other hand if he were just a fantastic player, healthy without major injury issues, and right in his prime...then again, there's a certainty factor and you can feel comfortable paying a lot of money. It's when you get into that in-between area that things get dicey.

    He played like a legit Pro Bowler in 2013 and wants to be paid like a legit Pro Bowler. Seems fair. But the player you get in 2014 could be nothing like what you got in 2013. There's probably a 40% chance of that, and an even greater chance that the guy you get in 2015 is nothing like the guy you got in 2013. I'm going to say probably a 60% chance he's not the same guy in 2015.

    Point of all this is if you want to franchise Brent Grimes and have him play for one year at $10 million or whatever...it might even be prudent. The extra year of clarification on how the rest of his career is going to go could be valuable when it comes to the contract he gets from the team.

    The other option would be just to have Dawn Aponte do a fantastic job structuring the deal to protect Miami. She's considered very good at that so maybe that might be the best way to go.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ideal free agency and draft for me is going to rebuild the whole running game and everything that it entails..

    Running back...fullback...3 or 4 starting Olineman..

    Sign a few of our own, Anything left go defense..
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the contract has to take into account his age, and be adjusted, if he needs to be reminded he's not in his prime then so be it..he's a great player right now, in three years it's only common sense to think he will decline in some facets even if he stays healthy..I'm sure we will make the offer because after deeper evaluation he's not in the norm in terms of body type..he's fast twitch thru and thru and that usually is good for longevity in terms of keeping your speed and explosive measurables.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The future is now. The chances are strong that decline won't happen in three years. It's happening right now, and will continue to happen.
     

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