1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hyde5: Five lessons for Dolphins from Super Bowl

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NaboCane, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...hins-from-super-bowl-20140203,0,7943795.story

    Good points by Hyde on roster-building, but especially on ownership.

    Roster-building:
    Seattle wins because Schneider and Carroll have a unified vision, and they built a team based on that. Will Hickey and Philbin share a vision?
     
    ToddPhin and Bpk like this.
  2. phinfan4ever

    phinfan4ever New Member

    36
    7
    0
    Jan 17, 2014
    Your key phrase is "vision". I am not sure if Hickey and Philbin are on the same vision. Hickey states he wants physical and tough players. Philbin seems to want more finesse players who can play multiple positions. We shall see.
     
    NaboCane and Aquafin like this.
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I think the entire playoffs showed us that we're pretty far off from the level it would take to get there and go far. We are FAR off from the Seahawks, IMO.
     
    fins4o8, brandon27, Bpk and 8 others like this.
  4. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,265
    7,907
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    They're not mutually exclusive. Versatile players with finesse should be in the NFL in the first place because they are physical and tough also. Like when Jerry Rice threw a block to spring Roger Craig in a SB.
     
  5. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

    4,796
    2,760
    113
    Feb 27, 2012
    Miami
    I agree but Seattle is a very, very bad example. If the playoffs and Superbowl are any indication, only the 49ners are close, everyone else in the league is far, far off from the Seahawks. They just took a Broncos team who was rapping everyone on offense and made them look incompetent.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Why would the Seahawks be a bad example? They just won the Super Bowl. That's the goal, to win the Super Bowl.

    It's not like the Seahawks were undefeated. They lost to the Colts. They lost to the Cardinals. They lost to the 49ers and barely staved off a comeback win from them in the playoffs. The 49ers also lost to the Colts this year, plus the Panthers and Saints. Let's not pretend they were infallible.

    Yeah we're pretty far away from championship contention.
     
    unifiedtheory likes this.
  7. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

    4,736
    304
    0
    Jun 16, 2011
    the poor house
    my vision for this team is to see Miami stop making dumb personel Moves .

    #2 is to stop having crappy draft picks .

    #3 stop addressing the oline year after year.

    #4 stop trading away our best players and replacing them with Devon Bess and Derick Hagen type players.

    #5 stop having embarrassing scandals .

    I want to see us focus on getting one side of the ball to be a dominate force regardless if t offense or defense.
     
  8. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

    4,796
    2,760
    113
    Feb 27, 2012
    Miami
    I don't think it is realistic to set this Seattle defense as the goal to achieve in order to win a Superbowl. They are too good. I think it'll even be difficult for the Seahawks themselves to replicate this type of defensive play next season.

    The goal of the Dolphins should be to get better, no doubt, but not necessarily comparatively as good as Seattle. Baltimore won the year before, New York the year prior, those teams would be easier to emulate than this Seattle defense, and that would present just as good a shot at winning. IMHO.
     
    Unlucky 13 and Brasfin like this.
  9. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Exactly, and that is crucial. The drafting of Dion Jordan is a perfect example; everyone who knew/coached Jordan think he is a stellar OLB in a 3-4—so Ireland drafts him to play in Coyle's Triassic 4-3. And we all know what Philbin does with players who don't fit what he/his coaches want to play—he buries them in the depth chart, whether the investment in them is a #3 or a #203.

    You want an example of a team that is not going to be as good this season as the one just ended? The Forty-Niners. Why? Because their HC and GM are openly feuding, with the GM already having refused to sign at least one player that the HC coveted. That kind of dysfunction will erode the roster, and I'm betting they don't match their success again until it is fixed.

    Free agency will begin to tell us if Hickey can acquire players that Philbin actually wants; the draft will solidify it for all to see.
     
    gafinfan and Bpk like this.
  10. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    I think the biggest problem with this team is Ross did not fully comprehend all the duties that come along with being an NFL owner and the amount of work required to put the right people in place. I'm not sure if he ever even thought past Parcells/Ireland/Sparano. I'd like to think as a billionaire he would have thought about the work it would require to replace them, but given his track record and the fact that he had no plan whatsoever in place for Jeff Ireland at season's end speaks volumes about his level of preparation. Ross is lazy as an owner. He prefers continuity because it requires so much less effort on his part. And he has zero credibility right now because of the way he has handled his coaching and now GM hires. We better hope Philbin can coach. And that Tannehill progresses enough to allow for mediocre GMing because I have a hard time believing Dennis Hickey is going to set the world on fire based on what we know from his time with the Bucs.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  11. MIASportsFan

    MIASportsFan New Member

    347
    100
    0
    Nov 25, 2013
    West Palm
    Tannehill would have been carted off in a body bag if Miami had been in that game, after we allowed 35 sacks in the first half
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    One step at a time. First we need an off season to build a capable playoff team. Not one that sneaks in but one that enters convincingly. It starts with Tannehill taking the next step. After that happens, than I'll feel comfortable talking Super Bowl.

    That could be two years from now, but that's as early as it will be, IMO.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    The problem from our end we have no idea if this coach/GM has an actual vision for a team, do we want what Ross wants, fast pace, uptempo, offensive identity, or are we into just good football players and everything else will fall into place..
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I don't see how we're THAT far off considering we beat every AFC team we faced that made into the playoffs (4 of the 6 teams, Colts, Pats, Bengals, Chargers)

    I would have thought the hyperbole would have died down a bit once Ireland was fired. In fact, I kind of feel like a promise was broken.
     
    Califin, Bumrush, CWBIII and 5 others like this.
  15. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

    302
    170
    43
    Apr 24, 2010
    We may be inconsistent but we beat some pretty good teams like the Colts who beat Seattle this year & we beat Seattle last year. Not saying we're in the consistently good ballpark as Seattle but we're not devoid of talent either. That's why it's frustarting being a fins fan imo.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  16. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    I am encouraged that a shaty offense like Seattle can win the SB in a dominant fashion. Our offense can win the SB as it is, with the same offensive line. We are not in the ballpark as far as coaches, front office, or special teams. We are close as far as defense.
     
  17. phinfan4ever

    phinfan4ever New Member

    36
    7
    0
    Jan 17, 2014
    I like the word you used "convincingly". I hope we get to the point we look like we are a threat to win it all and not just back in to the playoffs. CK as usual you are dead on. Seattle convincingly won the whole shabang and they should be our example of how to win.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Four years in place.

    Seahawks did show me what happens when you have good coaching who actually utilizes talent rather than trying to force it down the hole they desire.
     
    GreysonWinfield likes this.
  19. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

    15,886
    8,901
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    NY
    Also don't see how we can be that far off from a team we beat last year and didn't add all that much since then.
     
  20. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

    8,560
    4,133
    113
    May 9, 2008
    we beat them in Miami. Seattle was night and day on the road last season.
     
  21. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    lol please...2012 is irrelevant
     
  22. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Wins and losses are arbitrary. That's why I laugh heartily at people who think that "playoffs" are the end-all measure of success; if we had backed into the playoffs as the 6th seed this past season, it would not have made us one molecule better than when we didn't.

    Success comes with good roster-building; and you don't measure that in the win or the loss of a game here or there. You measure it in terms of how well players play, how well they fit your various systems, and in how good your roster depth is.

    Seattle: that guy Smith, who won the MVP? Didn't even start. Seattle started off in a nickel. Miami: who are the guys behind Ellerbe, Phillips and Misi? Exactly.

    I could go into a whole breakdown of Seattle's roster, but the usual asshats would dismiss it anyway and most won't even read it.

    But know this: Seattle didn't win this title by happenstance; Schneider and Carroll built a roster mindfully, carefully; they crafted it so that starters and depth are so similar that, at least schematically, they are interchangeable. They don't have an athletic, mobile QB with a 6'5" pocket passer behind him; they have Wilson and Jackson, who play the position similarly. They don't have Marshawn Lynch and then some tiny scatback behind him; Turbin and Lynch are all but physical clones, with running styles so similar that you don't miss a beat in substitutions.

    In fact, look across the breadth of Seattle's roster and see the same thing; QB, TE, RB, OL, LB, Safety, CB—their backups allow the team to stay within its schemes and not have to radically change anything after injuries. The talent levels differ, naturally—but the system runs seamlessly.

    Miami? Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas—that's really all you have to say to illustrate the lack of a cohesive vision in terms of building a roster, compared with Seattle.

    We're not close. Don't kid yourself. After all, kidding yourself hasn't worked out so well in the past, has it?
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I have so many tell me that I am not a real fan and other hurtful and abusive things.

    All because I just want my team to win and don't call for firings every 15 seconds after a Dolphin loss.
     
    Rocky Raccoon and GMJohnson like this.
  24. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    34,739
    47,803
    113
    Dec 19, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    The "just missed the playoffs" is the fools gold of the NFL. Unfortunately Ross has bought in because he doesn't have a good sense of the team or history in the NFL.

    Closest this team has been to being a team that could be good enough to make the SB was 1994.

    And, even then they would have been destroyed in the SB.
     
    Bpk, FinSane and NaboCane like this.
  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Cut the crap and stay on topic.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  26. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    When Miami stocks its roster with not only playmakers, but quality depth, then we can start looking forward to extended postseason play. In the meantime, let's hope that Hickey and Philbin can be even close to how seamlessly Schneider and Carroll have meshed their individual experiences into one vision.
     
  27. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

    4,796
    2,760
    113
    Feb 27, 2012
    Miami
    Aww, it was starting to get interesting.......
     
  28. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Yes we beat Seattle so the other 99 times that we might have lost to them dont matter.
    No that does not mean everyone has to be satisfied with that or simply firing Ireland.

    You both express your love of the team differently. Fin, you choose to be optimistic and thats your right. Nabo chooses to be critical of the team and thats his right. Get past it, use the ignore feature, I dont care what you guys do but the passive aggressive garbage doesnt work.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yes or no, is Philbin's system the same as Parcells system, and if yes or no, do they require different kind of players?
     
  30. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Shut up, you ignorant native in loincloths!
     
    Sumlit likes this.
  31. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

    12,363
    7,091
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    The fact people can watch yesterdays Super Bowl and think the Dolphins are close is laughable, at BEST.

    The Seahawks are better at every single position, with the exception of defensive line and receiver. We are not close to competing at that level.

    I did see "we are only two years into a complete system overhaul". So we have started a rebuild after a rebuild that started with a rebuild? System overhaul does not take into account the fact we've been rebuilding for 6 years.

    The Seahawks are in year four of their "system overhaul". In that time, they won a playoff game in year one, got better in year two (finished with the same record), won a playoff game in year three (lost in Atalanta by 2 in the divisional round) and in year four finished with the best record in the NFC and won the Super Bowl.

    Oh, they will return essentially the same team next year. The cap won't bite them for another year.

    They achieved in year one of their "system overhaul/rebuild" what this franchise has not done in 13 seasons, won a playoff game.

    They achieved in year four of their "system overhaul/rebuild" what this franchise has not done in 28 seasons, had home field throughout the playoffs.

    They achieved in year four of their "system overhaul/rebuild" what this franchise has not done in 44 seasons, won a World championship.

    We are close? They are in another league.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I'm not being optimistic. We beat the teams we beat. We've only had two years under a new system and we recently found out that for the last year of those 2 years the GM wasn't on the same page as the coach. It is flat out absurd to be complaining about depth under those circumstances.
     
  33. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Uh, they sucked *** their first two seasons under Carrol. They were worse than we are. This is a case of a fan over exaggerating his teams issues while overrating another team.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Whats absurd is to defend a GM who left an offense completely devoid of playmakers for a new coach to inherit after 4 years of being GM. The only playmaker we had, Marshall, was such a headcase the new coach felt it necessary to ask that he be moved with a few other headcases.

    I agree we beat the teams we beat. Doesnt matter of Seattle would have won the other 999 times out of a 1000 the only thing that matters is the game that was played. But i also think this team does lack talent in plenty of areas and that we aren't on that level yet. We're closer then he says imo bt further then what youre saying. We're probably 5-6 players away but theyd have to be excellent players. We have depth but we aren't high on top shelf quality past the DL

    Also to be fair Philbin made the reconstruction of the defense necessary by not hiring a 3-4 DC and hiring a DC who instead runs a base 4-3 with a double a gap blitz scheme. He brought that on himself as far as Im concerned. We had a 3-4 in place and it was pretty good, albeit not elite. You could have built on it though and added more pieces. Instead he chose to go a completely different direction.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  35. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    AKA making the typical post on this forum...
     
  36. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    If you feel thats the typical post than add something more to elevate the conversation instead of continuing that trend....
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Problem, the way I see it, is talent just develops to slowly in Miami, right when the reach competence, they are either FA or have 1 yr left so the team paid for their prior crappy or inconsistent prior seasons.

    Like Sean Smith, or heck, Nolan Carrol, for all of the hand wringing over Dio Jordan, he is more what usually happens in Miami, from that pov Olivier Vernon is a deviation from the norm for us

    Lamar Miller, good example, ditto Daniel Thomas, until young players contribute quickly and at a high level this is our norm, maybe a playoff game, maybe a short run.
     
    Boik14 likes this.
  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Which would indicate a problem with the evaluation process.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Where did I defend Ireland in any of those posts?

    All I'm saying is that 2years under a new scheme and 1 of those years the GM wasn't even trying to get the coach the players for his scheme. Anyone really think if Ireland had brought in Albert instead of Martin we'd have made the playoffs?
     
  40. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    You didnt mention Ireland in those posts but you did defend him for a very long time.

    As for Albert...Yes. Buffalo game 1 was on the OL, Tampa game was largely on the OL, and Carolina game. Win 1 of those 3. You mean Albert couldnt have made a substantial difference?

    Plus Martin might not have been starting which could have avoided his crap play and maybe a huge distraction
     

Share This Page