Farmer now Cleveland GM, did the media lie about us again?

What players of note did he add? He added Grimes and Pouncey, outside of that he sucked.

 

What other players of note did he add?

 

I see, you've got nothing. You seem dumb.

 

Too many pronouns. No idea what you're trying to say.

 

Tannehill and McKinnie were mediocre, Clay and Gibson are ok players, Wake was added by Parcells and I'm not sold on Vernon one bit.

 

Just 2 points to clarify:

1.) Hickey did interview for the Tampa GM job with Lovie Smith. He may have gotten canned but may have stayed who knows, but the Bucs interviewed him.

When I interviewed for the [GM] job in Tampa for coach Lovie Smith...I'm a true believer in supporting those around me,"Dennis Hickey said
— Omar Kelly (@OmarKelly) January 28, 2014

2.) Farmer is now under the same power structure that he was "too confused" by in Miami. With Coach and GM reporting directly to Owner.

FROM PFT

"Team president Alec Scheiner will run the business side of the organization, while new G.M. Ray Farmer will run the personnel operation, and coach Mike Pettine will have control of the on field product.

Haslam said all three would report to him, as they wanted to “streamline the process.”"

 

Yeah, definitely Farmer knew this was about to happen...explains why he suddenly pulled out of the GM race here... We'll see how things go, but I can say this, Lombardi takes another hit...he'll likely end up back at NFLN for good now...

 

Point #2 in particular is just not correct.

The difference between the organizational structure in Cleveland and the organizational structure in Miami is Dawn Aponte. Scheiner's role is analogous to Tom Garfinkel's role. Farmer is analogous to Hickey. Pettine obviously to Philbin. But there is no Aponte in Cleveland.

They will undoubtedly elevate someone to handle caps and contracts for Farmer but that person will not be on equal footing with Farmer and Pettine, nor will they be a trusted adviser of Haslam's.

 

I guess you're calling Ray Farmer a liar then. Ray Farmer doesn't like when Ray Farmer is called a liar.

 

Brian Wiedmeyer, a respected NFL executive, will probably manage the cap in Cleveland. Wiedmeyer was a longtime capologist with the Dolphins and was considered to be a class act and a team player, compare that with Dawn Aponte who has a history of stabbing people in the back.

 

All hail, the King of Homers!!!

 

I am fine with calling him a liar.

 

Most people believe it or not are not comfortable lying directly to the press. Omitting something is one thing. Lying directly though? That takes a Saban.

Just today Ray Farmer said that he had no idea about his being promoted when he refused the 2nd interview with the Dolphins, and said that the Dolphins were not a good match for him.

 

You have 0 credibility now saying tannehill was mediocre, none

 

That strikes me as closed minded. Ryan Tannehill WAS mediocre for a starting quarterback in 2013. He needs to do better.

 

I doubt Lake Dawson would flat out lie to the press as well.

Well, he did lie about this part lol.

 

The Dolphins have the same organizational structure as the Cleveland Browns if instead of firing Joe Banner they had promoted Ray Farmer to being on equal footing with him and had them both report directly to Jimmy Haslam.

Evidently two things spurred Haslam into action here. The first was he decided that he didn't want Michael Lombardi around anymore. The second is he decided he didn't want Ray Farmer's football authority to be shared or put in check by Joe Banner's football authority.

He could have promoted Farmer to a position that made it clear on the org chart that Banner didn't have authority over him, or changed Banner's role to that extent. That would be the Steve Ross way. But unlike Ross he doesn't have this utopian ideal of everyone loving one another and working together like a well oiled machine despite self-interests.

People saying that the Browns now have the same structure as Miami are off. Haslam fired Joe Banner specifically so that the Browns would NOT have the same organizational structure as Miami.

The similarities are that Jimmy Haslam has other active business interests and is an absentee owner, yet insists on being the Boss (with a capital B) of his football franchise. That's a similarity. However that's where the similarities end.

 

GM candidates are not most people. A good portion of his job description is lying to the media.

 

Misleading and/or keeping secrets is not the same as lying. No it is not his job description to tell direct untruths to the press. It's not anyone's job description.

 

Armando is saying that Haslem said Farmer wasn't offered the job when Miami was interviewing him.
It's the press!!!

 

I think its' really funny how some people can twist things so badly to support their views.
I guess I'm naive though because I'm not reading between the lines. Maybe it's me.

 

Whether or not the media was lying, I wasn't exactly that excited for Farmer in the first place. The only guys I really wished we didn't miss out on was Cesario(sp?) and Xanders.

 

Huh? You realize that the aggregate record of NFL teams is always going to be .500??? Picking out of a hat will give you average talent acquisition.

 

You said, "People theorize that there's no way of knowing Farmer and Pettine will get along". Well, what I'm saying is, if Farmer had come to Miami and hand-picked his own guys, he would've obviously avoided those individuals he felt might pose a personality/philosophy/power conflict, so we can assume the potential for people "not getting along" would've been significantly lessened. Therefore, the people suggesting we were better off staying with Philbin & Aponte "just because there's no way of knowing if a new group would've gotten along" are operating behind a paper thin argument.

 

Help me understand the dysfunction because it seems fairly straightforward to me.
Aponte reports to Hickey, correct? Dolphins structure: Ross>>Hickey, Garfinkel (CEO) and Philbin>>Aponte, coaches and other front office execs.
Cleveland structure: Haslam (owner & CEO)>>Farmer, Kuharich and Petine>>Capologist, coaches and other front office execs. Unless you're talking CLE has a new head coach (Farmer didn't interview) or the the owner is the CEO I'm truly not seeing much difference. In fact I'd think with with bringing in Kuharich as an adviser to Farmer that the structure is more muddied and/or the GM has less power.

 

What you're trying to do is understand something complex as something simple and I don't blame you, but the fact of the matter is, it's complex whether we want it to be or not.

Dawn Aponte has been placed on the org chart (which is a piece of paper) as subordinate to Dennis Hickey. However she was not explicitly given a demotion or pay cut. Previously she was subordinate only to Steve Ross, on equal footing with Ireland and Philbin. She has a relationship directly with Steve Ross. She helped him conduct the GM search and was right there next to Carl Peterson and Steve Ross peppering the interviewees with questions. Even Joe Philbin was not at those interviews. He met with the candidates separately. She was every bit the adviser on the GM hiring that Carl Peterson was, and even more front-and-center than Matt Higgins who generally did not speak at interviews.

She meets with Ross, she speaks with Ross, and he considers her a trusted adviser right there with Matt Higgins. These are things Steve Ross has openly admitted. He referred to her even during Dennis Hickey's opening press conference as someone along with Matt Higgins that advises him on Dolphins stuff.

She used to report to Jeff Ireland. However she used to also speak with and meet with Steve Ross back then as well. If Jeff Ireland was truly her boss then he should have been able to fire her. Except when he tried to do that, he was told no by Steve Ross. In fact Ross essentially responded to Ireland's desire to go a different direction at the position by giving her a promotion and authority over him in certain areas.

If Dennis Hickey one day decides that he wants to go in a different direction for his caps and contracts person, he will not be able to fire her. If he decides he doesn't like her going over his head and meeting directly with Steve Ross, he cannot forbid it or request that he be present during these meetings or conversations. In the mean time she will do exactly what she used to which is set budgets for everything. She will set the budget for free agency and decide whether moves fit into that budget or not. She will decide how much the Dolphins can spend on each position, how much dead weight the team can carry, etc. She will do all this with Steve Ross' protection.

So you tell me, how much does Dennis Hickey believe she actually reports to him, as opposed to Steve Ross?

If you worked for a boss and that boss put his own son in your department, under you in the org chart, but you know that he meets with his son and speaks with his son on company matters all the time not in your presence...how exactly would you feel about that?

This was one of the primary sources of confusion among Dolphins GM candidates. They felt the Dolphins were being ambiguous about what her role would be and how she fits in. Half of her job is supposedly "subordinate" to the General Manager and half her job is equal with both the General Manager and Head Coach under the owner as the owner's trusted adviser.

That's a muddy structure.

 

Nah, it's the media CK.

They are just lying about us for no apparent reason

 

The other thing is she has a lot of direct contact with Joe Philbin as well. In her job dealing with the football operations, she spends a lot of time with Joe Philbin. More time in fact than she does the General Manager, as the caps/contracts/budgeting work has been described as really only like a quarter of her job.

So again, you're a department head. Someone in your department spends as much time talking to your boss as you do, and spends MORE time meeting with, interacting with and working for the department head that is on equal footing with you on the org chart...than she does you.

And when you as a potential GM (or current GM) decide to start asking questions about this, combing through the division of responsibilities and authority with a fine toothed comb just so you can make sure you have it right...you're told that you are focusing on all the wrong things and that you're not being a team player.

 

Do you think Miami was a team with average talent in 2013?

 

Very interesting. My question is is she worth it?

I know you don't like Ireland but it sure seems like he was let go bc he wasn't a "team player" or comfortable with the organizational structure as opposed to being fired bc he was a bad evaluator of talent. The GM candidates who turned us down also seemed to be uncomfortable with the structure.

There's an argument to be made that hiring Hickey is a good thing if he's comfortable with the structure and able to work seamlessly with Philbin and Aponte and that avoiding internal power struggles is more important than having the worlds best available talent guy at GM. That's what the Dolphins appear to be selling, do you buy it?